393 replies to this topic

[Necromantion]

PGI: "WE DONT WANT PEOPLE BOATING"

*Implements Ghost heat*


A year or so later

*Implements quirks that encourage boating*


Thoughts?

[Dawnstealer]

Wingbreaker, on 25 February 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

You're right, it should gimp the deck. Unfortunately, as was being proven last night, it does not. The 24 stalkers are more than enough to run through 3/4ths of the enemy team.

And again, any time you would deem to bring 24 of any single weapon systems, it is a gigantic red flag of broken. The system is designed to encourage diversity, and it has created homogeneity.

****'s broke, yo.

Obviously...



shhhhh...

[Wingbreaker]

Dawnstealer, on 25 February 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Obviously...



shhhhh...

I know you're salty because steiner is losing consistant ground to the smallest faction in the game, whilst it is likely the largest, but this is a problem that affects CW and needs to be addressed. I can beat this deck. I have beaten this deck. But does that mean 90% of the units on the ground, or even more, could?

**** no. I watched a skilled team show off just how powerful it is. I watched decent teams get torn apart in seconds. I watched a timberwolf die in three.

That should NEVER happen.

The 4N is broken.

Edited by Wingbreaker, 25 February 2015 - 08:54 AM.

[Necromantion]

Dawnstealer, on 25 February 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Obviously...



shhhhh...

The map doesnt indicate anything other than more skilled players and more players in general are probably Clans also the squabbling between IS factions has lead to a lot of ground being loss.

So tired of IS players pointing at the map as if it shows anything. Total illogical representation of anything.

[Dawnstealer]

Wingbreaker, on 25 February 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

I know you're salty because steiner is losing consistant ground to the smallest faction in the game, whilst it is likely the largest, but this is a problem that affects CW and needs to be addressed. I can beat this deck. I have beaten this deck. But does that mean 90% of the units on the ground, or even more, could?

**** no. I watched a skilled team show off just how powerful it is. I watched decent teams get torn apart in seconds. I watched a timberwolf die in three.

That should NEVER happen.

The 4N is broken.

NERF THE 4N - THERE SHOULD BE NO IS MECH OR TACTIC THAT CAN CHALLENGE CLAN MECHS EVER.

Seriously, guy - so we should play harder, but we come up with a build or tactic that actually makes you work for it, the sobbing is EPIC. Just stop.

And you keep going back to that "largest population" well. This is a little sidebar here, but if that population is primarily new players, or disorganized pugs, that makes zero difference in your eyes? I only see real organized drops on the weekend, and even then, it's only for a few hours.

Back to the topic? Clan mechs can EASILY counter the 4N's (and Tbolt) advantage by changing their own builds to compensate. And then we'll come up with something else that gives us the edge, and then you'll counter...

So it goes.

Necromantion, on 25 February 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

The map doesnt indicate anything other than more skilled players and more players in general are probably Clans also the squabbling between IS factions has lead to a lot of ground being loss.

So tired of IS players pointing at the map as if it shows anything. Total illogical representation of anything.

No, Necro - it absolutely does if you know what you're looking at and when those huge pushes happen. When the first quirks went into effect, and the 9S became actually effective, you can see the IS holding their own. Clans would still make gains, but they were slowed down quite a bit and in some cases, the IS was even able to occasionally push back.

That gigantic push right near the end by all Clan factions? That's post-requirkening. That's not a coincidence. That's not illogical. I mean, if you're tired of evidence, that's a "you" problem, not an "IS player" problem.

Also, since you and all the Clans are obviously more skilled than all us IS players, it should be quite easy for you to overcome a pesky tactic with ERLLs, right? So go on and prove it.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 25 February 2015 - 09:12 AM.

[reign]

I would be happy if they just relaxed ghost heat on the clan side like they did on IS side. (for large lasers) sent Russ a tweet about it.

even with the additional range the IS gets being able to use the same amount of lasers would be nice. (we pay in additional face time for our damage output).

[Wingbreaker]

It has nothing to do with whether this is a clan or IS mech. This is about a broken mechanic that has created an 8+ dps with no downfalls.

It has 22% reduced heat, 32% higher range, and 32% lower cooldown on a laser system whilst being on a mech with extremely good hitboxes and very high weapons points.

I don't care who has that mech, it's broken. The laser vomit was reduced from its 6 dps pedestal, the Thunderbolt PPC was reduced from its 4.5.

You really think 8 is okay in any way?

[Necromantion]

Dawnstealer, on 25 February 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

No, Necro - it absolutely does if you know what you're looking at and when those huge pushes happen. When the first quirks went into effect, and the 9S became actually effective, you can see the IS holding their own. Clans would still make gains, but they were slowed down quite a bit and in some cases, the IS was even able to occasionally push back.

That gigantic push right near the end? That's post-requirkening. That's not a coincidence. That's not illogical. I mean, if you're tired of evidence, that's a "you" problem, not an "IS player" problem.

Also, since you and all the Clans are obviously more skilled than all us IS players, it should be quite easy for you to overcome a pesky tactic with ERLLs, right? So go on and prove it.

Winning 95% of matches or more if speaking just for the unit I play in I am hardly troubled by IS LLas buffs, the only thing I dont agree with is the fact that all that quirks are doing is encouraging boating again, something PGI said they were against.

I think IS weapons flat out need some tuning to be competitive with Clans, quirks was a simple way to address that but is now causing other balance issues. The quirks indeed do bring IS in line with clans IMO and I play both factions 50/50 in CW.

Why should a 65 ton mech be more heat efficient than a 90 ton mech with more heatsinks? Would I be ok with the awesome having the ability to do what the 9S did? Not at all, it would make total sense IMO.

Would you be ok if clans were able to alpha 3 ppcs without any real heat penalty? A weapon without ammo requirements and pinpoint damage? And all that aside I never struggled significantly against that loadout even as clan but I can say that when players in our unit were buying 3 9S's its clear that that thing was a bittttttttt too strong and even PGI agreed.

Also a lot of clan gains coincide when large merc alliances have been on their "Clan week".

Edited by Necromantion, 25 February 2015 - 09:19 AM.

[bobF]

Quickly, everybody that prefers IS tech shitpost on the OP! PGI must ALWAYS believe IS is UP in EVERY AREA!

Use specious comparisons!

Say the OP and CGB and therefore by extension all Clanners are QQing!

Post many gifs and jpgs!

ANYTHING to maintain the illusion! IS needs an extra 100 tons in CW, another quirk pass giving minimum 50%-worth of bonus for all relevant meta builds, and then FINALLY there will be balance!

***

Hey, if a bunch of people bad at the game want to make IS ezmode for mercs who play both kinds of tech, fine with me. You can then post rants about mercs needing a nerf, or CW being terrible because you won't join a unit. Bads gonna bad.

Edited by bobF, 25 February 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[IceWeasel]

Keep your 6 Large Laser Stalkers and Large Laser Thunderbolts. Just stop bitching about Clans Tactics and 12mans are OP.

[Lily from animove]

indeed, the IS blue over the Clan cyan.

but therefore Yellow meds are more beautiful than that ugly green IS meds.

the reds are both nice.

so world is in balance.

xengk, on 25 February 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

looks like my cockpit

[Tasker]

Everything make clanners cry. That because clanners crybabies.

[Wingbreaker]

Tasker, on 25 February 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Everything make clanners cry. That because clanners crybabies.

To be completely clear, I have no problem with most of these builds. It's the broken nature of 3GH larges on the 4N that I believe is the issue, and I have not seen convincing evidence of serious issues with any other mechs.

Edited by Wingbreaker, 25 February 2015 - 09:30 AM.

[bobF]

Been stacking c-bills for two weeks to save for whatever hot IS mech PGI buffed for "balance;" it's time for a shiny new 4N.

When IS players get mad in-game and rage at 12mans picking apart their sorry builds, I will point them to this thread, and mention that it conclusively proves the balance of 12 4Ns lined up calling targets.

Thanks MWO playerbase.

Edited by bobF, 25 February 2015 - 09:32 AM.

[Wingbreaker]

bobF, on 25 February 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

Been stacking c-bills for two weeks to save for whatever hot IS mech PGI buffed for "balance;" it's time for a shiny new 4N.

When IS players get mad in-game and rage at 12mans picking apart their sorry builds, I will point them to this thread, and mention that it conclusively proves the balance of 12 4Ns lined up calling targets.

Thanks MWO playerbase.

Please do. Not that 228th didnt prove it last night, but holy **** is this thread embarassing.

[The Droid]

Where is Clanner petition to remove the IS from the game to prevent these travesties of game imbalance? "My Clan 75 tonner died to three IS 60 tonners focusing their fire on me, nerf IS. My 55 clan ton laser boat only goes 100 kph, nerf IS."

Edited by The Droid, 25 February 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

Necromantion, on 25 February 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

Winning 95% of matches or more if speaking just for the unit I play in I am hardly troubled by IS LLas buffs, the only thing I dont agree with is the fact that all that quirks are doing is encouraging boating again, something PGI said they were against.

I think IS weapons flat out need some tuning to be competitive with Clans, quirks was a simple way to address that but is now causing other balance issues. The quirks indeed do bring IS in line with clans IMO and I play both factions 50/50 in CW.

Why should a 65 ton mech be more heat efficient than a 90 ton mech with more heatsinks? Would I be ok with the awesome having the ability to do what the 9S did? Not at all, it would make total sense IMO.

Would you be ok if clans were able to alpha 3 ppcs without any real heat penalty? A weapon without ammo requirements and pinpoint damage? And all that aside I never struggled significantly against that loadout even as clan but I can say that when players in our unit were buying 3 9S's its clear that that thing was a bittttttttt too strong and even PGI agreed.

Also a lot of clan gains coincide when large merc alliances have been on their "Clan week".

I weirdly come down somewhere in between. I think Clan mechs SHOULD be overpowered. They were overpowered in lore, too, and being an old-timer, that's more what I'm interested in.

But the Clan was also nerfed in lore. Not by their weapons, but by their play style.

Since this is a computer game, there's no way to say "You can only fight one on one until someone else (outside your selected target) shoots at you" and "bid away your numbers in a self-defeating egotrip." But...

But you could incentivize that kind of play. No XP or CBill reward for Clan Assists, for example. 10v12's been brought up a few times, but the quirks would have to be scaled WAY back in that case because numbers really matter in this game. If I have a crappy LL and you have a Clan LL, you'll win. If I have 12 of them and you have 10, I'll probably win.

So in that sense? I agree.

But to come on the forums and whine any time you aren't absolutely blowing out the IS is numbing after a while.

[operatorZ]

beerandasmoke, on 25 February 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

We just got the hell beat out of the 9S and the 6K and now you want the 4N nerfed as well? Seriously? Its not going to happen because Russ says the Clans are up next for the nerf bat. Sorry I meant "quirks."

"the hell beat out"....you don't say....hahahhahhahhahahhahahh

If you mean "slightly toned down" ...maybe...do you even play?

[The Droid]

Wingbreaker, on 25 February 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

**** no. I watched a skilled team show off just how powerful it is. I watched decent teams get torn apart in seconds. I watched a timberwolf die in three.

That should NEVER happen.

The 4N is broken.

A team of players in 85 ton assaults can focus fire 75 ton heavies to death quickly????

Clanner, zellbrigen does not exist in Inner Sphere.

Edited by The Droid, 25 February 2015 - 10:07 AM.

[Tasker]

Wingbreaker, on 25 February 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

To be completely clear, I have no problem with most of these builds. It's the broken nature of 3GH larges on the 4N that I believe is the issue, and I have not seen convincing evidence of serious issues with any other mechs.

Ha ha ha ha ha. How you think IS players feel when kill two waves of Stormcrow, Hellbringer, Timber Wolf in tenacious battle, losing many of best mechs, only to discover Clanner have two more waves of identical composition? Timber Wolf have same firepower as Atlas. Atlas 100 tons, IS player make many sacrifices to include single Atlas in drop deck. Clan player still have room for three Stormcrow.

Clanners cry many times of light rush, fail to understand that IS group not as good ton for ton. Must bring heavier mechs on fight waves and then use leftover tonnage in best way possible. Besides, soon you get light mech that almost as strong as Firestarter but also have ECM and weigh only 30 ton. This against faction that can not bring three Streak boat to fight and instantly defeat light wave. What you cry about then? Winning too much? Ha ha.

Edited by Tasker, 25 February 2015 - 10:11 AM.