434 replies to this topic

[Fate 6]

The Gargoyle movement type is an insult to the players.

Evan20k, on 01 March 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

It took me a bit to figure out exactly how I felt about the pack, to be honest.

I love my Gargoyle. It's bad, and I don't care. That said, The executioner looks like a ton of fun to me, so I ordered the pack. I'm sincerely hoping that the jump jets aren't locked if they don't address the JJ issue though. Looks like it could be a clan Banshee, which makes me happy.

I felt exactly the same way

[Augustus Martelus II]

Wait....what did they do to the Gargoyle?

[Brody319]

Augustus Martelus II, on 01 March 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

Wait....what did they do to the Gargoyle?

its movement profile is set to the maximum value rather than a lower one.

so when it comes to an incline, it decreases in speed greatly.

if it was lower it could go up hills and over spaces a lot faster which would make it more useful as an agile assault mech.

[Tarogato]

I'm all for giving the Gargoyle the Large archetype instead of Huge, because the point of having a Gargoyle is that mobility, and the Huge movement archetype castrates any hope the Gargoyle has of achieving that goal.

Should the Executioner get Large instead of Huge as well? I think you're also asking for this but I really think it should NOT. As far as I'm aware, it's going to be the biggest mech in the game, it's traditionally supposed to be taller than an Atlas. The fact that it has jumpjets and MASC makes up for the fact that it's a man-shaped cow, and I think it should stay that way. Should it get jumpjet quirks? Maybe. Do all jumpjets need a little help? Maybe. Do we need to bring the days of poptarts back? Eh, if we get there, we've gone too far.

Edited by Tarogato, 01 March 2015 - 02:44 PM.

[Lightfoot]

Gladiator has Standard Internals (add 5 tons) plus 4 fixed Jump Jets (add 8 tons) leaves about 22 tons for weapons on a 95 ton hippo. No Sale.

Fix Clan Mechlab so more equipment changes are possible and the Gladiator can be great. However, nothing has ever been done for the Thor so, sorry, but No Sale.

[Armorine]

Working jjs for all!!

[Mcgral18]

Lightfoot, on 01 March 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Gladiator has Standard Internals (add 5 tons) plus 4 fixed Jump Jets (add 8 tons) leaves about 22 tons for weapons on a 95 ton hippo. No Sale.

Fix Clan Mechlab so more equipment changes are possible and the Gladiator can be great. However, nothing has ever been done for the Thor so, sorry, but No Sale.

25 tons with "efficient maximum".

[Summon3r]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Did that sound arrogant and ostentatious enough?

Anyhow, despite the self aggrandizing title, this is a (mostly) serious post. Wave III will be the first Mech Pack I have not bought (On this or my alt acct). I may possibly with the extension buy the Shadow Cat package, if I can free up the money by mid month, but no more.

So the why?


Wait...the HIGHLANDER??????? And the Gargoyle??????
What the hecK?

Elementary, actually. Since the JJ nerf, Assaults have been pathetic at jumping. Yet at 2 tons per JJ, that is a heck of a lot of tonnage invested...for essentially, no "go" juice. The Highlander in particular, jumps like a paraplegic geriatric trying to skip rope.....in molasses.

The Gargoyle part? Since it was introduced, the Gargoyle has been cursed with the Huge movement profile. On a mech with nearly no firepower. It survives based on it's mobility, yet PGI chose to take a huge chunk of that away, as anytime it encounters an incline or 45º pebble, it is reduced to moving SLOWER than a King Crab. And Russ has shown no inclination to rectify this.

There is little to no reason to believe the Executioner will be any better. Which means you will have a huge (traditionally about the largest mech in the game, height-wise) mech profile, horrible terrain movement, and terribad JJs. With under 25 tons of guns when fully armored. Again, like the Highlander and Gargoyle (and Victor to a lesser extent) it's a mech defined by it's mobility. And PGI seems determined to take that away from Assaults, almost entirely. For massively armed mechs like the Atlas, King Crab, Dire Wolf, etc, that makes sense.

For mechs like the Executioner? For me, it's a deal breaker. One can say "well wait till it drops", we won't know until then. Well, I did that the last several packs (and don't regret it), but the results along those fronts, with all the subpar Clan Mechs still being totally sub par? I would prefer to save the 60 bucks now, and if when released, I am wrong and they are wonderful? Grind the Cbills then, before buying another pre-nerfed Mech.

So, sorry PGI, but unless I see some sign that you are actually acknowledging things like the current state of suck with the JJs, and 2/3 of the already released Clan Mechs? I just can't do it. And it pains me, as I have bought literally every max pack up til now. But I don't think you can quirk these problems away.

I believe I'm not the only one concerned about this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

great post Bishop. I couldnt agree more on ever point u have made, and would like to highlight the fact of just how overnerfed JJ's are especially on mechs that are supposed to be uber mobile (summoner) and the absolutely asinine fact that the 100ton KGC has a smaller movement type then the GAR which is supposed to be an uber mobile lightly armed assault... atleast u got the lightly armed part right.

all these facts and pgi's history does not bode well for the EXC which traditionally should be an exceptionally mobile killing machine

[Dawnstealer]

The problem with JJs now is that they act like a really, really slow elevator. Doesn't matter what mech you have or how many JJs you have. The problem is that having them act that way allows for things like jump-sniping and so on.

Instead, JJs should act like a drop-kick. Just...BOOM-airborne, and you either go straight up for BOUND forward (or backward) a certain distance based on how many JJs you have.

[Ted Wayz]

So two out of how many Bishop? And only one that came from a pack? I am not seeing the overwhelming statistical evidence that is causing you such personal turmoil. Unless...

You used to be a jump sniper and miss the OP glory days of the Highlander. (Verified by other posts)

And maybe there are personal financial matters preventing the purchase. (Hinted at in this post)

I do not understand your post on many levels. But mostly because PGI gives us the Urbie and the next thing they do you try and kick their sales in the nuts.

Please change your signature. It rings hollow.

Edited by Ted Wayz, 01 March 2015 - 03:03 PM.

[MavRCK]

Bishop Steiner and I don't always agree but when we do, it's boo-yaaa!

Points 100% agreed.

Fix assaults. Mobility matters.

Sorry if pop-tarting for 1.5 years sucked because PGI couldn't balance things worth ****. JJ's weren't the problem. Getting off their asses and fixing SRMs, balancing heat, dmg, etc. was.

Ted if you want to verify my other posts and numerous videos over the years go for it.

Bishop is 100% right.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tarogato, on 01 March 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

I'm all for giving the Gargoyle the Large archetype instead of Huge, because the point of having a Gargoyle is that mobility, and the Huge movement archetype castrates any hope the Gargoyle has of achieving that goal.

Should the Executioner get Large instead of Huge as well? I think you're also asking for this but I really think it should NOT. As far as I'm aware, it's going to be the biggest mech in the game, it's traditionally supposed to be taller than an Atlas. The fact that it has jumpjets and MASC makes up for the fact that it's a man-shaped cow, and I think it should stay that way. Should it get jumpjet quirks? Maybe. Do all jumpjets need a little help? Maybe. Do we need to bring the days of poptarts back? Eh, if we get there, we've gone too far.

the fact is the King Crab is even larger than it, and has large, yet can mount nearly half it's mass as weaponry. Like the Gargoyle, the Gladiator has mos tof it's mass locked into an oversized engine. Thus, if it does not have mobility (sorry but masc won't help if every incline slows it to a crawl), particularly with Highlander class hover jets, then it's firepower will be insufficient, and it will be a 3rd tier mech at best. Not sufficient reason for me to part with 120 bucks, sorry.

And if you read my post on JJs, you will see I am specifically NOT advocating the return of Poptarts.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 March 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[MrJeffers]

I am a Clanner and support this message. This is the first pack I didn't buy the top tier.
Ebon Jag is as far as I went.

Gargoyle is an insult of a fast assault and worthless fixed hover jets on the Executioner make it a non-starter for me.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ted Wayz, on 01 March 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

So two out of how many Bishop? And only one that came from a pack? I am not seeing the overwhelming statistical evidence that is causing you such personal turmoil. Unless...

You used to be a jump sniper and miss the OP glory days of the Highlander. (Verified by other posts)

And maybe there are personal financial matters preventing the purchase. (Hinted at in this post)

I do not understand your post on many levels. But mostly because PGI gives us the Urbie and the next thing they do you try and kick their sales in the nuts.

Please change your signature. It rings hollow.

verified by other post? You might want to recheck your verification standards, since 1) I was one of the biggest anti-poptart advocates on the FOrums, and 2) my "other post" is not benefitting poptarts at all, but Jumping Mechs, period.

If you have that much trouble with reading comprehension, not much I can do to help. But if you think that ignoring when the Emperor has no clothes somehow actually benefits PGI and MWO in the long term? I'm glad you are not the one making the decisions.

One thing Russ knows about me very well. I support PGI and MWO more than dang near anyone else, and I have proven it on the forums, and most importantly with my wallet, where I venture to bet I am in the top 1% of spenders in this game. But Russ also knows I am not going to pull punches when PGI screws up or misses something.


So, yeah, sorry but fail.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 March 2015 - 03:20 PM.

[WM Jeri]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Did that sound arrogant and ostentatious enough?

Anyhow, despite the self aggrandizing title, this is a (mostly) serious post. Wave III will be the first Mech Pack I have not bought (On this or my alt acct). I may possibly with the extension buy the Shadow Cat package, if I can free up the money by mid month, but no more.

So the why?


Wait...the HIGHLANDER??????? And the Gargoyle??????
What the hecK?

Elementary, actually. Since the JJ nerf, Assaults have been pathetic at jumping. Yet at 2 tons per JJ, that is a heck of a lot of tonnage invested...for essentially, no "go" juice. The Highlander in particular, jumps like a paraplegic geriatric trying to skip rope.....in molasses.

The Gargoyle part? Since it was introduced, the Gargoyle has been cursed with the Huge movement profile. On a mech with nearly no firepower. It survives based on it's mobility, yet PGI chose to take a huge chunk of that away, as anytime it encounters an incline or 45º pebble, it is reduced to moving SLOWER than a King Crab. And Russ has shown no inclination to rectify this.

There is little to no reason to believe the Executioner will be any better. Which means you will have a huge (traditionally about the largest mech in the game, height-wise) mech profile, horrible terrain movement, and terribad JJs. With under 25 tons of guns when fully armored. Again, like the Highlander and Gargoyle (and Victor to a lesser extent) it's a mech defined by it's mobility. And PGI seems determined to take that away from Assaults, almost entirely. For massively armed mechs like the Atlas, King Crab, Dire Wolf, etc, that makes sense.

For mechs like the Executioner? For me, it's a deal breaker. One can say "well wait till it drops", we won't know until then. Well, I did that the last several packs (and don't regret it), but the results along those fronts, with all the subpar Clan Mechs still being totally sub par? I would prefer to save the 60 bucks now, and if when released, I am wrong and they are wonderful? Grind the Cbills then, before buying another pre-nerfed Mech.

So, sorry PGI, but unless I see some sign that you are actually acknowledging things like the current state of suck with the JJs, and 2/3 of the already released Clan Mechs? I just can't do it. And it pains me, as I have bought literally every max pack up til now. But I don't think you can quirk these problems away.

I believe I'm not the only one concerned about this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I feel ya Bishop, am in the same boat..so much so that I have not even logged into the game for a couple patches now. Just no desire. Have dropped lots of coin so far but no more, I did just buy an Orion in Star Citizen though and have been racing and practicing dog-fighting.

For me its beyond the balance elements the rinse wash repeat of the game has become totally stale. I truly hoped for random dynamic maps procedurally generated or such in CW. Something that added spice where it was not the same go here defend X, go here attack X. Every single map with maps so small that recon elements have little to no value. Fire support or flanking opportunities are next to nil. The game is just pretty much one dimensional.

Sad its a gorgeous game but just becomes boring with no real community aspect elements like API key, population wide stat tracking for individuals and units a world map that actually means something, MERC contracts and rule sets around the warfare that actually have value. Bottom line is just an incredibly gorgeous FPS with mechs and an FPS gets old without the back story and goal elements your working towards.

For me the ship has sailed tired of waiting money is going elsewhere and honestly my time as well. I check the forums see what the compliant of the day is or the news of the day but beyond that little else.

Best Regards All!

[Alexandrix]

You can thank the poptarts.
Well,that and pgi's asinine way of "balancing" things.
reticle shake should persist thru out the jump.jj'ing in a mech is supposed to be a sudden and violent affair.not this lightly hovering thru the air on a summer breeze garbage.

Make reticle shake persist thru the jump,and make jump jets actual jump jets,not hover jets.make them slam you back in your seat and quickly propel your mech up/forward.

There,no poptarting AND useful jj's.

[Wiley Coyote]

http://www.merriam-webster.com

Just in case anyone else needs to look up any of the words in the OP (like I had to).

I'm not much of an assault pilot but I wouldn't have an issue with JJs being more useful on those mechs. As long as it doesn't lead to another round of poptart meta on lighter chassis.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wiley Coyote, on 01 March 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

http://www.merriam-webster.com

Just in case anyone else needs to look up any of the words in the OP (like I had to).

I'm not much of an assault pilot but I wouldn't have an issue with JJs being more useful on those mechs. As long as it doesn't lead to another round of poptart meta on lighter chassis.

Alexandrix, on 01 March 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

You can thank the poptarts.
Well,that and pgi's asinine way of "balancing" things.
reticle shake should persist thru out the jump.jj'ing in a mech is supposed to be a sudden and violent affair.not this lightly hovering thru the air on a summer breeze garbage.

Make reticle shake persist thru the jump,and make jump jets actual jump jets,not hover jets.make them slam you back in your seat and quickly propel your mech up/forward.

There,no poptarting AND useful jj's.

addressed in my other current post.
http://mwomercs.com/...-mobility-back/

MavRCK, on 01 March 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

Bishop Steiner and I don't always agree but when we do, it's boo-yaaa!

Points 100% agreed.

Fix assaults. Mobility matters.

Sorry if pop-tarting for 1.5 years sucked because PGI couldn't balance things worth ****. JJ's weren't the problem. Getting off their asses and fixing SRMs, balancing heat, dmg, etc. was.

Ted if you want to verify my other posts and numerous videos over the years go for it.

Bishop is 100% right.

True, we've locked horns probably more than we have agreed. But when you make a good point, I will always back it. Thanks for the support on this one.

[Bishop Steiner]

KuroNyra, on 01 March 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

Do like me, just buy the Ebon Jaguar pack when you can.

Is it weird...that I just have never really felt it with the Cauldron Born? (Face it, even the clanners, well, any non Smoking Jags, anyhow, liked the IS call name better.) "Ironically, the Clan Smoke Jaguar 'Mech that was intended to replace the Loki was not referred to by its Clan designation, Ebon Jaguar, by other Clans as it was still so new that many Clans just called it by its Inner Sphere designation".

That and it was designed to have a low profile according to lore..... this one feels too tall for me. And I prefered the offset cockpit of the MW4 version.

So yeah..basically, the Cauldron Born, she just don't speak to me. If I could depend on the Executioner to be the lovechild of a Victor and a Banshee on steroids it's supposed to be, I would have found a way to scrounge the dough and bought the thing anyhow.

[Wiley Coyote]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:

addressed in my other current post.
http://mwomercs.com/...-mobility-back/

Sorry, missed that part as I skimmed the post like I do my work emails and the TL;DR didn't mention that.