434 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Carrioncrows, on 01 March 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

With the increase to jumpjets velocity it will be harder to jump snipe ...

It looks like the psychological trauma induced by poptarts is still around.

Nightmare1, on 01 March 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

JJs are in serious need of help. Poptarting fears aside, they are pretty much useless in their current state.

Frankly, I'd rather have to deal with poptarters than run the current JJs. I miss the fun mobility I had as a brawler. I also miss playing whack-a-mole with those poptarters; that was an easy way to score a kill! I never could understand why folks had so much trouble dealing with them...

Poptarts = Clay pigeons. The wannabes anyway.

Edited by Mystere, 01 March 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Bluttrunken]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

being useful for their investment, and not super slow hoverjets that serve little purpose? Don't think I'm being unrealistic.

Yeah, sure, and I concur. But in which way would you like to see them tweaked? Faster height increase? Longer Jump Distance?

[Tarogato]

Koniving, on 01 March 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

Which one might add... that the force of gravity in MWO is after several tests:
Approximately between 29 to 32 meters/sec.
Earth's gravity is 9.807 meters/sec.

...

It's kinda why fall damage had to be adjusted multiple times. And why poptarts don't have that physics reaction you'd expect, where a heavy object full of resistance to motion would resist the downward pull while the inertia dissipated, hover in the air after the lift is gone, and then slowly begin to accelerate "Past the window, downward." (Monty Python reference), giving you a nice fair window to shoot an enemy poptarter down.

The reason for this, as given by Sean Lang in the past: "It didn't feel right to fall so slowly." Well, that's because this isn't a human-sized first person shooter, the Victor in MWO is over 15 meters tall!.

...

The point I'm making, is if you ever saw something large and heavy fall after it defied gravity by rocket or somesuch, even if it only made it to 20 meters it will take about a second to three to lose all inertia and shift downward, and for 20 meters slightly over 2 more seconds to hit the ground. ...

(Bringing me to the second point, pop tarts wouldn't be a problem if we had a nominal level of gravity).

I feel like Koniving wins the thread here. I've always noticed that things seemed to fall abnormally fast in MWO, and I always wondered why, it always felt so unnatural. But still the the question remains, why are we using an acceleration due to gravity of 30m/s² instead of something closer to 9.8? And why can't we actually have different gravity on different maps?

[Livewyr]

Idea:

Jumpjets lift up at 4x the rate they do now. (Scaled by number and weight, naturally)

Burn the JJ fuels 2x as fast...

Same recovery.

-----------------------------
Or some variation of that concept.

Bingo: Jump Jets.

[Lightfoot]

Dawnstealer, on 01 March 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

The problem with JJs now is that they act like a really, really slow elevator. Doesn't matter what mech you have or how many JJs you have. The problem is that having them act that way allows for things like jump-sniping and so on.

Instead, JJs should act like a drop-kick. Just...BOOM-airborne, and you either go straight up for BOUND forward (or backward) a certain distance based on how many JJs you have.

3PV ruins another MechWarrior game. In spite of all the promises, first little JJet poptart meta whine and JJets are gutted. I just use them for mobility and one day I hope to DFA a Dire Wolf.

Edited by Lightfoot, 01 March 2015 - 05:03 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Mystere, on 01 March 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

Poptarts = Clay pigeons. The wannabes anyway.

Yep! I loved popping them with my AC/20 HBK!

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

HArd to deal with, and actually "fun and interesting" are two very different concepts. Also, I seemed to have the inordinate misfortune of running into SJR and LORDs 12 mans on a far too regular basis. So it seems like my choice was be surrounded by a bunch of Wannabes running poptarts in stand still matches til I got bored enough to push around and wreak some havoc, or get steamrolled by the 2 top 12 mans in the game. Which to take nothing away from those 12 mans..but would have been a little more fun if most players here didn't wet their panties and give up anytime they see those TAGs on the other team. Don't matter how good or bad I am, when within 2 minutes it was usually me vs 8-12 of them?

Yeah, not the most fun way to play the game, for me. (remember most of this was before we had a true solo queue, too.)

Yeah, I went up against them a time or two back then and it was brutal. Still is; they're definitely good! They can die though and I have killed them a few times.

That being said, I wonder what the game would be like now if JJs were fixed back to the way they were before. Granted, poptarting would return, but with new maps, game modes, quirks, and Mechs, it may actually be interesting. At the very least, I think it would be worth a test on the Public Server.

All that being said, JJs need to be faster at getting you off the ground, otherwise there's no point in using them. You move too slowly to effectively use them in a fight. At the very least, they should substantially increase your turn rate in combat so that you can spin about while fighting. I was never a poptarter because I always felt that was a bad way to play unless you had an organized group where everyone was doing it and supporting each other. However, in brawls, I really loved using JJs so that I could spin around and cut lose with SRMs and whatnot.

I really miss them and wouldn't mind having them back, even if it meant having to deal with poptarters again.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Carrioncrows, on 01 March 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

Make it so that you can't fire your jumpjets until you have a 100% jet charge.

This is not a fix in my opinion. If you cannot feather your jets on the way down, they lose a great deal of usefulness. I understand why they were nerfed, but adjust the nerf to hurt hang time and not altitude. At least give Assaults some momentum in a jump, that much mass doesn't just change directions because its thrust is gone.

[MerryIguana]

Return them to their old state. Even if it means you cant fire in the air. I would honestly prefer that to what we have now. Reticule shake throughout the jump is fine too. As long as i can jump over mechs again.

Garg absolutely needs a movement change. Quirk it already.

Good post.

[CocoaJin]

Tarogato, on 01 March 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

I feel like Koniving wins the thread here. I've always noticed that things seemed to fall abnormally fast in MWO, and I always wondered why, it always felt so unnatural. But still the the question remains, why are we using an acceleration due to gravity of 30m/s² instead of something closer to 9.8? And why can't we actually have different gravity on different maps?

I think they said the engine can only handle a single gravity value. The gravity was part of the JJ/Pop-Tart nerf I believe. Standard gravity might have felt "off" since I doubt the game engine could account for atmospheric drag, making all accelerations feel too "snappy".

Without a vacuum, these relatively low-density objects ought to become a bit sluggish going up and going down...the drag penalty for increases in velocity due to JJs on the way up and gravity on the way down should give a bit of a bungeed-tether affect.

Edited by CocoaJin, 01 March 2015 - 06:07 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

k05h3lk1n, on 01 March 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

Yeah, sure, and I concur. But in which way would you like to see them tweaked? Faster height increase? Longer Jump Distance?

Ummm...all the above? As my post specifically on the matter states, would like to see them restored to how they were before the global JJ nerf.

Not remove the peripheral effects added, as in heat, fall damage, scaling thrust or even the recharge nerfs. But the speed, height, distance they once had. And some mechs, like the Spider, should have extra controllability quirks, as that was a lore facet of the Spider design, along with generating less heat while jumping.

With The need to carry closer to full JJs to really benefit, fall damage for those who don't save thrust for landing, heat, etc, and implementing a better anti-poptart measure, there would be no reason to not let JJs actually Jump again.

[Soy]

If I typed up a page about everything I didn't feel like buying, my life would be filled with presumptuous walls of vapid text.

Luckily I have better things to do than complain about **** I'm not buying, so I'm grateful for that.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tarogato, on 01 March 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

I feel like Koniving wins the thread here. I've always noticed that things seemed to fall abnormally fast in MWO, and I always wondered why, it always felt so unnatural. But still the the question remains, why are we using an acceleration due to gravity of 30m/s² instead of something closer to 9.8? And why can't we actually have different gravity on different maps?

simple answer? Take a heck of a lot more work to program than my suggestion? It would be great to have, and could even work well in conjunction, but we got to realize that with a small cash strapped studio, there is what we want, and what we can realistically get. I don't think what Kon is saying is a "quick and dirty" enough fix with everything else on their plate currently, whereas my JJ suggestion is literally altering parameters on code ALREADY EXISTING in the game, and the removal of a few lines of nerfs.

Think of it as triage. It in no way invalidates Kon's idea, just is a heck of a lot faster and easier to implement, solves a chunk of the same issues, and in the end, would dovetail nicely with his when they do get the time/resources to consider.

Soy, on 01 March 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

If I typed up a page about everything I didn't feel like buying, my life would be filled with presumptuous walls of vapid text.

Luckily I have better things to do than complain about **** I'm not buying, so I'm grateful for that.

Like post about how much better things you have to do?

Lightfoot, on 01 March 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

3PV ruins another MechWarrior game. In spite of all the promises, first little JJet poptart meta whine and JJets are gutted. I just use them for mobility and one day I hope to DFA a Dire Wolf.

...................................

[Soy]

Bishop - Of course. That required like, ten seconds to type after skimming the OP for 10 secs.

I found it really amusing how you make a bunch of wild assumptions about how the Gladiator will be,

while completely ignoring the notion that PGI could, of course, at least attempt to balance things after the fact.

Which is what has been occuring in every online game, ever.

Not saying they could balance it, just sayin - your argument is horribly cynical and biased. It's also agenda-driven, which undermines your credibility. But keep spouting a bunch of **** and get the sheep galvanized, that's pro politics bro.

ps - my post wasn't a huge wall of text, unlike your stupid op. God you're dense when you want to be.

Edited by Soy, 01 March 2015 - 05:53 PM.

[Mystere]

MerryIguana, on 01 March 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

Return them to their old state. Even if it means you cant fire in the air. I would honestly prefer that to what we have now. Reticule shake throughout the jump is fine too. As long as i can jump over mechs again.

No. That will be the death of jump-brawling.

CocoaJin, on 01 March 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

I think they said the engine can only handle a single gravity value. The gravity was part of the JJ/Pop-Tart nerf I believe. Standard gravity might have felt "off" since I doubt the game engine could account for atmospheric drag, making all accelerations feel too "snappy".

Without a vacuum, these relatively low-density objects out to become a bit sluggish going up and going down...the drag penalty for increases in velocity due to JJs on the way up and gravity on the way down should give a bit of a bungeed-tether affect.

Atmospheric drag is negligible at the heights we are dealing with.

[Bishop Steiner]

Soy, on 01 March 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

Of course. That required like, ten seconds to type after skimming the OP for 10 secs.

I found it really amusing how you make a bunch of wild assumptions about how the Gladiator will be,

while completely ignoring the notion that PGI could, of course, at least attempt to balance things after the fact.

Which is what has been occuring in every online game, ever.

Not saying they could balance it, just sayin - your argument is horribly cynical and biased.

which is why you usually miss the actual point of the OPs. It's all good, maybe you just need to knock the rust off of your foruming, too!

Whats most amusing is that since PGI has made only half hearted attempts at fixing things like the Summoner, Badder, Gargoyle, etc, that you seem to believe that they will get around to making the Executioner good anytime soon...well, it's cute. Or the Highlander, which 3 quirk passe sin is still....useless?

Now note, maybe if you actually try reading the OP instead of skimming, I am in no way try to dissuade others from buying. I am simply stating, as someone who has been and still is, an ardent supporter of the game, why this pack does not appeal to me.

Horribly cynical and biased? Yup, letting 3 years og this game influence my view, along with the mechanics specifically added to deal with things like Jump jetting Assaults...makes me a truly cynical guy. Lol.

But go ahead and keep posting away.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 March 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[Soy]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 March 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

Now note, maybe if you actually try reading the OP instead of skimming, I am in no way try to dissuade others from buying. I am simply stating, as someone who has been and still is, an ardent supporter of the game, why this pack does not appeal to me.

Ok, here's an idea.

How about I persuade you to buy it.

Rather, lets make a bet.

How about I take a Gladiator, and you take any other assault.

If I kill you ten times out of ten, will you never post again on these forums?

Inquiring mind wants to know.

Edited by Soy, 01 March 2015 - 05:57 PM.

[El Bandito]

What do you call a Highlander that cannot do a Highlander Burial? Lowlander?

The Executioner at least got 7 Energy points in 1 arm. Enough for a very responsive Dual CLPL + Quad CERML build with maximum convergence alpha of 54 damage, built in a single location. Helps a lot in its survivability.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 March 2015 - 06:02 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Soy, on 01 March 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

Ok, here's an idea.

How about I persuade you to buy it.

Rather, lets make a bet.

How about I take a Gladiator, and you take any other assault.

If I kill you ten times out of ten, will you never post again on these forums?

Inquiring mind wants to know.

nope, because I am more interested in seeing this game succeed and be fun, then stroking the epeen of a 1%er.

But hey, nice try.

[Soy]

I'm not a 1 percenter, I'm merely a guy who thinks you post too much politically driven bullshit.

Denied? K; noted.

I am disappoint.

I must find another way to shut you up..!

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 01 March 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

What do you call a Highlander that cannot do a Highlander Burial? Lowlander?

The Executioner at least got 7 Energy points in 1 arm. Enough for a Dual CLPL + Quad CERLL with maximum convergence alpha of 54 damage, located in a single location. Helps a lot in its survivability.

so 28 tons of weapons...... that's gonna be one hot, and underarmored Executioner, bro.

Soy, on 01 March 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

I'm not a 1 percenter, I'm merely a guy who thinks you post too much politically driven bullshit.

Denied? K; noted.

I am disappoint.

I must find another way to shut you up..!

Yawn.

How about post a valid counter argument? That isn't about the world the way you 1%ers see it.