132 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

If you drop mech speeds it needs to be universal. Don't change the numbers on screen, just change the actual movement. At that point though, TURNING SPEED AND TORSO TWIST SPEED NEEDS TO DROP AS WELL. Otherwise all we are doing is making mechs easier to hit and kill and they already die fairly fast.

[Taffer]

Wow F that.

Just nerf the quirks. I didn't see firestarter As and Ss all over the place before quirks. I wish my ember was as good as those two. I paid real money for that thing :\

[FerrolupisXIII]

have you seen what you can do on a Firestarter-S with a slightly smaller engine? i was introduced to it when skirmishing with EMP and some others.

SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND

yes thats the same firepower as a Thunderbolt-5SS. this thing is an absolute little terror. sure its a bit hot, but you're designed to pop in, LEVEL someone, and leave, not sustained brawling. even in a brawl it snips legs or side torsos like a damn surgeon.

Edited by FerrolupisXIII, 03 March 2015 - 08:09 AM.

[Murphy7]

I think the answer, specific to the Firestarter, is a few fixed weapon hardpoints. If some of those energy points were locked in as flamers (shocker, I know) - keep the quirks and how much does that change things?

Full disclosure - I love my firestarters. Not sure any of them could actually start a fire.

[C E Dwyer]

I would like to suggest PGI sort out HSR and hit detection before any speed nerfs happen to lights.

Though all mechs should have engine cap reduction

[Gas Guzzler]

Lordred, on 02 March 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

Cherry picking does not help you.

Adiuvo, I do not see eye to eye with you on this subject, but I will not fight with you about this.

Um, if a small group of players don't have an issue hitting lights, maybe there isn't an issue and it is just hard to hit lights.

I am not one of the people that he listed, but I can hit lights most of the time. I struggle holding lasers on them sometimes, but that is me and not HSR.

HSR is wonky for all mechs sometimes. I have been running Dakka Crabs and watched as my ACs have struck mediums and heavies without getting hit reg. If you consistently hit them, most of the shots will hit and they will go down.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

i still say TDK is the best light. 1 for the money 2 for the show and 3 because you cant catch my squirrely ass.

[aniviron]

Tahribator, on 02 March 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

These overpowered quirks are the only reason these 'Mechs are so popular, the non-Ember Firestarters were as rare as unicorns on the battlefield before.

Not sure what game you've been playing, the FS9 chassis has been the best in its weight class since the day it was released. It was very slightly better than the Jenner pre-quirk, and when the Jenners got nothing and the Firestarters won the quirk lottery, it was all over.

[Adiuvo]

aniviron, on 03 March 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

Not sure what game you've been playing, the FS9 chassis has been the best in its weight class since the day it was released. It was very slightly better than the Jenner pre-quirk, and when the Jenners got nothing and the Firestarters won the quirk lottery, it was all over.

It was never better than the Jenner. Lights didn't really have the capability to brawl at that time besides the Ember, and even then hardly anyone played the Ember correctly. Poking was stronger, and easier, and the JR7-F did that better than any Firestarter.

Edited by Adiuvo, 03 March 2015 - 02:59 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Tahribator, on 03 March 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Not "FS9s" but "Ember". Every other FS was considered garbage prior to quirks, no matter how much they actually improved upon the flawed Jenner on paper. Why? Because they were ridiculously hot. They sucked at peeking unlike Jenner. They also couldn't capitalize on their energy hardpoints without cooking themselves and especially pulse lasers were out of the equation.

Check out Gman129's competitive tier list (I hate tier lists, but there you go) from 10th of October 2014:



The Firestarter is only mentioned once, and that is because 4xML+4xMG build was ridiculously good in the pre-quirk era. Nowhere else you see FS9A-H-K-S, because they were absolutely horrible. So what happened? Again, quirks happened. A can finally utilize all of its hardpoints, H can have cooler lasers and K can have ridiculous cooling efficiency with pulses.

Now I'm not saying nerf FS' to ground, but PGI shouldn't allow them to dominate the light bracket purely due to quirks. Either buff other lights to FS levels of firepower or bring FS into line with other lights.

If you look at gmans (quite biased but mostly resonable) list you will notice that only the jenner F is any good. All the other jenners also got crap quirks but were never really better than the FS9s. Except the oxide, which is ironically was weak prior to quirks imo, and yet gman rated it T2 for some reason, but it still got baller quirks.

Edited by Ghogiel, 03 March 2015 - 11:59 PM.

[NextGame]

HlynkaCG, on 02 March 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

Before you guys all reach for your flamers and pitch forks please hear me out...

I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that the Firestarter is the best IS light mech by a wide margin. In fact, it is one of the the best mechs in the game period really second only to the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow in all-around combat effectiveness. It has excellent hit-boxes, excellent hard-points, generous quirks, and can keep up with (if not flat out-run) every mech in the game excluding the spider.

I expect to catch a fair amount of flak for this opinion, but I see this as a problem.

As it stands there is no real game-play reason for a player to choose a Jenner, (or any other light for that matter) over a Firestarter. Ideally the choice between running a Fire-starter and running a Jenner would be a trade off between fire power and speed. Unfortunately with Hit-Reg and HSR being what they are there is no way to make other lights faster without introducing additional problems, and barring speed there is no real way to buff other lights up to the Firestarter's level without continuing to drive TTK through the floor or making the IS zerg rush even cheesier than it already is.


As such I would propose that the Firestarter receive a minor reduction in engine cap, I'm thinking somewhere in the 260 - 280 range, to create a greater differentiation in speeds between the Firestarter and mechs like the Jenner, Spider, or Locust.

...and Go!

Edit:
The new meta?

No.

[Matthew Ace]

Overall I can agree with a lower cap (but the value is another thing). For it to work though, aiming needs to be more difficult, even without doing something regarding perfect convergence.

When talking about the FS specifically, a noticeably lower cap would make sense, given that all variants are able to deliver as much, if not more damaging overall damage, than a Jenner F.

[Kmieciu]

Adiuvo, on 03 March 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

It was never better than the Jenner. Lights didn't really have the capability to brawl at that time besides the Ember, and even then hardly anyone played the Ember correctly. Poking was stronger, and easier, and the JR7-F did that better than any Firestarter.

Oh it was always better, especially in the low-medium Elo range, where people aim for center mass rather than legs. Jenner has only one hitbox - the CT, while the Firestarter can tank multiple AC20/Gauss rounds with it's arms, side torsos and legs.

Plus, it has 8 energy hardpoints for the ultimate hit-and run poke.

Edited by Kmieciu, 04 March 2015 - 03:32 AM.