The maps and forced style of play essentially eliminate a greater portion of the mechs and builds from being at all useful in organized matches.
The scumball-vatborn-surat-licking clanners have the exact same problem. If you see any other mechs than a Stormcrow, Hellbringer or Timber it is because that player doesn't have a full deck of pure CW mechs yet.
And, IS biggest flaw are the players bringing LRMs into CW. Don't get me wrong, LRMs can be great if they have the proper team-mates to support them and there is only one LRM boat per drop with enough ammo and launchers to make themselves look like 10 regular LRM boats..... But if you are in anything less than an 8-man and you are bringing LRMs to the battle ... just don't. You need everyone on your team putting fire where it is supposed to go, CT or Legs, not spread all over hell's half-acre. Worst, however, is that players with LRMs will stand at the back of the battle missing most of their shots (from the HUGE air-time) and not soaking up any damage from the mechs that are doing *real* damage to the enemies.
I have played a ****-ton of CW matches and I have NEVER, NEVER, NEVER seen LRMs stop a clan push -- even a light push.
LocationPeriphery of the Inner Sphere, moving toward the core worlds with each passing day.
Posted 05 March 2015 - 07:28 AM
Kjudoon, on 05 March 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:
You assume much.
I use all weapons at my disposal. Some LRM, some FLPPD, some Wub. My participation is average enough. I don't claim to be a great pilot, just better than those addicted to obvious game mechanic crutches bragging about their superiority.
I run what I enjoy playing. It is not what is meta, nor does it require me to have ECM or clan crutches. I'm tempted to get a clan mech just to see how sloppy I can play and still do well. I'm fairly certain I'll be disgusted with myself when I do learn. But perhaps I will learn that piloting a clan mech isn't all that easy (though my experience with the Raven 3L sure proved to me how lazy you can be with ECM and do well.) We shall see.
Therefore, go on and pound your chest, and brag on your might. I'm sure there will be another single mech with a quirk that will offer a challenge and the QQ will go up about it till PGI gives in and nerfs it away to dry the tears of so many cheese addicts.
Let's be honest with ourselves. This is not a game of skill. This is a game about exploiting the designers and flaws and rules in their game for personal advantage.
"We know the name of this game, and it sure isn't pugilism" Joe Gould (Cinderella Man)
One of the builds I use and have moderate success with. This was a solid match. The big fight starts about 6 minutes in.
You should try clan mechs some time. Many players I know actually prefer IS mechs when given the choice. They feel like the PP FLD from the IS weapons is just r3tarded by comparison to Clans.
Face time from DoT weapons, and massively higher heat balance a lot of things out. This day and age clans are not really DPS mechs any more...they are alpha boats with long burn DoT weapons. If clan weapons from say...ERML/CMPL down had beam durations cut slightly, and ERML/CMPL heat lowered by 0.5-1.0, they would probably become more DPS types because you could actually sustain fire. As it sits, IS is the DPS side with PP FLD, and clans are the Alpha boats, but DoT weapons with long burn times...kind of bass ackward if you ask me.
I've never played him but I can tell that by how he talks about the game. Phase one of playing the game is the mechlab and he intentionally does poorly there and then talks down about people who know how to use it properly. He speaks about the game in terms of some imaginary game where playing to the actual games strengths and weaknesses is dishonabro and cheap. He sounds salty that other people are not playing by his made up rules regarding which guns and loadouts are respectable.
Personally, I think it's quite the opposite of being respectable to take mechs that gimp your team. It's selfish and egotistical, but, to each his own, just don't complain when you cannot compete due to your own made up rules about what is good to take.
The scumball-vatborn-surat-licking clanners have the exact same problem. If you see any other mechs than a Stormcrow, Hellbringer or Timber it is because that player doesn't have a full deck of pure CW mechs yet.
Yes I still totally agree that it is very much an issue for both sides, and would be the same issue IS v IS and Clan v Clan. The way the maps and maybe more importantly the mode itself is designed to completely eliminates roles and the majority of mechs and builds from the onset.
Personally I don't feel like the mechs themselves are as much the issue as they all feel more or less balanced in the standard drops where more options are viable and frankly the maps are better designed, the problem I see rests in the game mode and map design that is eliminating the greater portion of mechs and roles.
Yes I still totally agree that it is very much an issue for both sides, and would be the same issue IS v IS and Clan v Clan. The way the maps and maybe more importantly the mode itself is designed to completely eliminates roles and the majority of mechs and builds from the onset.
Personally I don't feel like the mechs themselves are as much the issue as they all feel more or less balanced in the standard drops where more options are viable and frankly the maps are better designed, the problem I see rests in the game mode and map design that is eliminating the greater portion of mechs and roles.
I think PGI needs to DOUBLE the ammo count/ton for AUTOCANNONS ONLY because of the way CW has changed the game.
I think PGI needs to DOUBLE the ammo count/ton for AUTOCANNONS ONLY because of the way CW has changed the game.
A slight boost to AC ammo would be nice, considering there was a doubling of armor values. Doubling might be excessive for the solo cue though. Balancing the game for both cues is a bit tricky due to them not being very different in terms of the meta.
I believe it would be much more lasting if they designed the game mode so that it was more than simply assault mode on new maps. Having missions that required lances to separate in order to complete/defend different objectives would increase the depth of the game by a ridiculous amount as well as do a lot for the current lack of any sustainable balance.
This is how the operations on all the prior mechwarrior games played out and what made them so engaging for players of all styles and roles and it would do wonders for something along those line to be the leading focus in CW. More people would play because it would feel much more like you were engaging in a story arc with each operation.
I believe it would be much more lasting if they designed the game mode so that it was more than simply assault mode on new maps. Having missions that required lances to separate in order to complete/defend different objectives would increase the depth of the game by a ridiculous amount as well as do a lot for the current lack of any sustainable balance.
this right here.
some of this is coming but yet, as CW stands now it is just assault mode on map design worse that even the worst solo queue maps.
One thing to consider, regarding making the game mode more complex...
The more complex it gets, the more the skill gap widens. It's already very simple and a good 80% of the people playing it cannot handle it at all. That is not an exaggerated figure.
However, IDGAF about noobs or catering to them. This is a game for MW addicts who have been playing this franchise for decades, so it should have more depth.
Does anyone remember the objective maps on Return to Castle Wolfenstein(not sure which version, the one that was out when Jedi Knight 2 was out)? Something like that would be great. Multiple objectives that open multiple paths. Gates that can be closed. Turrets that can be turned back on or taken over.
I believe it would be much more lasting if they designed the game mode so that it was more than simply assault mode on new maps. Having missions that required lances to separate in order to complete/defend different objectives would increase the depth of the game by a ridiculous amount as well as do a lot for the current lack of any sustainable balance.
This is how the operations on all the prior mechwarrior games played out and what made them so engaging for players of all styles and roles and it would do wonders for something along those line to be the leading focus in CW. More people would play because it would feel much more like you were engaging in a story arc with each operation.
I'm hoping this is just a case of it being in Beta - they're just trying to get metrics on mech/weapon balance at the moment, and game forcing people into a situation where they HAVE to fight one another is the best way to achieve that.
I would hope that a progressive, Conquest-style mode would be inbound eventually, along with other styles of game modes. For me, Assault was always the least interesting game mode, especially given the nature of the maps.
One thing to consider, regarding making the game mode more complex...
The more complex it gets, the more the skill gap widens. It's already very simple and a good 80% of the people playing it cannot handle it at all. That is not an exaggerated figure.
However, IDGAF about noobs or catering to them. This is a game for MW addicts who have been playing this franchise for decades, so it should have more depth.
Does anyone remember the objective maps on Return to Castle Wolfenstein(not sure which version, the one that was out when Jedi Knight 2 was out)? Something like that would be great. Multiple objectives that open multiple paths. Gates that can be closed. Turrets that can be turned back on or taken over.
I agree they need different kind of modes, but I would avoid something like that: they need to be Mech-specific. Having an effect on later games would be fun, too:
Imagine attacking a world in a Beachhead Mode, where you're fighting to get a landing spot on the planet (so this would be the "kill the big gun" mode, if you'd like).
This opens up three Modes that the attacker gets to select from: Airfield, LongTom, and Power Generator.
Kill the Airfield? No airstrikes in the following round. Kill the Long Tom? No artillery. Kill the Power Generator? The turrets don't work and the gates are open.
So winning an early mission has an impact on a later one.
One of the biggest advantages the Clans have is that so many is pilots are too much of a ***** to go right up and hump the Clanners face. Especially on hot map, you deny them the opportunity to back off into cover and cool down and you have stomp them. The problem is that you only get like 4 people pushing and everyone else takes 1 alpha and runs for cover. If you don't run at least two builds that can out-last a clanner (dragon, dakka something, even mpl thudder you can chain fire) you're doing it wrong.
Is can out-range and out-last for sustained dps clan builds. What you generally can't do is out-poke them. They'll shoot, cool, shoot, cool and the xls let them out-tank you.
12man bull rush on sulfur, better range on boreal, lights and mix of above on canyon.
I like the fact that Necro calls IS pilots whiners all the time. I have never seen him call CLAN pilots whiners when they get zerged however. COuld it be that clanners never ***** ? If so, how come the TDR 9s got nerfed...
MWO is not TDR and TW. It is mechwarrior. Meaning that a complementary loadout of mechs for different ops can be used to achieve success. All the suggestions of CLANS to IS pilots are: use more TDR and SPIDERS, when they're complaining about those very same mechs.........
As to teamwork. GREATLY OVERRATED. Yeah you read me right. I was in a team, I got fed up with a CO trying to force his really bad strategy, disregarding better pilots and tacticians suggestions, because his way was the only way ( which was wrong ) and you had to comply. Not only that, but unless you start the unit, you will never have a say in anything, from dropdeck mechxs to strategies.
I have been approached by a few units, while I was in one, before that and after. Would any of those reputable top tier units let me have strategic control of a lance, a company. NO ! So in PUG, I have better chances of having half a dozen pilots listening to me, than people like HARDKOR and NEKRO who think they rule because they have been in a team longer.
At the end of the day, my kick is implementing DIFFERENT TACTICS that the adversary has not seen, not practicing 12 hours a day to perfectly core a DDC with an alpha strike from a TW.
I can always hope that some other kindred souls got into MWO for those reasons, as opposed to the William Tells of the world. Better tactics will trump better marksmanship most of the time.
I do indeed say that IS pilots whine a lot on the forums, why? Because they do. Clan players whine when being light rushed but so do IS players so its moot point. The TDR 9S was even claimed by players who played IS to be OP and that it made no sense for a TDR to be a better PPC boat than the Awesome which is a valid point, no? I played IS for a good portion of the 9S claim to fame and it was way to strong in every scenario from long range sniping to brawling. Heck how often have you seen people buy the exact same IS variant in 3s? Never before. That kind of explains exactly how broken that mech was with its quirks then and frankly the 9S right now with 2ERPPC and 3Mlas is a good mech still.
Indeed it is mechwarrior but with what, 180+ mech variants in game some are going to fall to the wayside same would be true even if we had only 30 mech variants in game. That being said IS pilots are not told to just use spiders and Tbolts.
Stalker 4N, Misery, Firestarters, Spiders, Thunderbolts 7mpls, 4ERllas, 3LPL, Quickdraw 4k, Wolverine 3k, Battlemaster 1S 4ERLLas, Raven 3L, DDC and 3M for ECM, dual gauss jagers/cataphracts. I only complain about Spiders and their broken hit reg, as far as im concerned IS mechs otherwise are fine.
Teamwork overrated? LOL ok then you go solo a 12 man and tell me how that goes for you. This game is heavily reliant on teamwork, however that being said yeah a bad leader is a detriment to any team. Also you seem to be a control freak based on your latter statement, why not find a unit that embodies your playstyle and interests and go from there? Basically you just said "I dont like teamwork because I dont get to do what I want" with your last sentence in that paragraph.
Why? Probably because youre a rage-bucket and seem to lack any kind of rationality? Look man, you flipped your lid after CK's group when they were in MS ran a 12 Direwolf drop against you and then in a match or two later you dropped against another MS 12 man and spammed gen chat and ejected out of two mechs needlessly in a fit. Ah there it is the control freak mentality coming out. I dont think I rule, I enjoy the game, would like to think myself fairly competent... unlike some people I do not derive my self validation or self worth out of this game. Thanks though
If you have played CW a significant amount since the beginning there arent many strats that you probably havent seen as long as youve played both IS and Clans. Until new quirks come out or game modes we probably wont for a bit. Also a TW cannot core out a DDC in one alpha, strip a good portion of the armor? Sure.
To have better tactics you typically need better players.
Joey Tankblaster, on 05 March 2015 - 02:37 AM, said:
Let me correct this for you: and purchase 3 thunderbolt 5ss.
I always call it the 9SS by accident too >.< lol
Kjudoon, on 05 March 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:
At least IS v. IS is balanced the same way Clam v. Clam is balanced.
I have yet to experience victory in any CW match versus the clams of the few I bothered to try. None.. I repeat NONE of the matches were ever close. Not even when it was team v. Pug.
So I have no sympathy for the whines of clammers on quirks or the zerg rush.
You got your ez-cheezy mode. Enjoy the mismatch while it still lasts.
I can say my experience vs Clans as IS seems to be drastically different than yours. Perhaps the teams you were in were bad? Heck some of the better fights we have had in the last few days since going Clan Wolf have been vs IS pug groups that have done better than 12 mans from a single unit.
I can assure you that most clan players feel that the current game state is quite balanced other than the lack of representation of various chassis on both sides of the faction line. To be frank sitting in queue as IS or Clan to have a zerg rush take the base in 2.5 minutes sucks to be sure but thats how the game currently is set up and until PGI does something about it bad players who cant figure out to use SSRMs as clan or AC20/Gauss/Pulse lasers as IS are going to whine.
Ez-cheezy mode was when wave 1 came out and IS had no quirks and Clan weapons were obscenely strong. That is not the case anymore.
Leeroy Mechkins, on 05 March 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:
IS pugs usually have to carry a lot of new players, while Clan does not.
It is a BIG difference when you have 1-5 players on your team who have just been playing under 3 months.
These players built their mechs poorly, don't know map strategy and are weak at aiming and mech movement.
Games become decided in 10 mins, when a few of these players have lost all 4 mechs and the game becomes 9 v 12 or something like that.
How long has even the newest clan players been playing?
Usually at least 6 months to a year.
There is absolutely no comparison between a 6 month year old player and a 1 day - 3 month player.
There is no problem with having new players in CW.
However there is a BIG problem with having ALL the new players on ONE side.
This does seem to be the case which would explain the amount of uninformed, ragepost hilarity that ensues from many IS players on the forums surrounding CW.
Why is this you may ask? Because Clan tech is expensive for a new player. When they have 20 mill cbills are they going to buy one clan mech and fit it out or two IS mechs? Probably the latter because more new shiny things attracts most people more than less new shiny things.
Also a lot of newer players cannot seem to grasp that this is not as mindless as a lot of other FPS games and requires a lot more than pointing and firing to succeed. Map awareness, strategy, optimal loadout choice, heat management, positioning etc are all just a few of key factors that most new players stumble around with.
Why is that? Well most people in the world have severe entitlement and instant gratification issues. They want maximum gain through minimal effort and to be honest after playing a lot of MMOs and other games that have grinds MWO def has one of the more annoying grinds if you dont use premium time and champion/hero mechs.
Kjudoon, on 05 March 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:
You assume much.
I use all weapons at my disposal. Some LRM, some FLPPD, some Wub. My participation is average enough. I don't claim to be a great pilot, just better than those addicted to obvious game mechanic crutches bragging about their superiority.
I run what I enjoy playing. It is not what is meta, nor does it require me to have ECM or clan crutches. I'm tempted to get a clan mech just to see how sloppy I can play and still do well. I'm fairly certain I'll be disgusted with myself when I do learn. But perhaps I will learn that piloting a clan mech isn't all that easy (though my experience with the Raven 3L sure proved to me how lazy you can be with ECM and do well.) We shall see.
Therefore, go on and pound your chest, and brag on your might. I'm sure there will be another single mech with a quirk that will offer a challenge and the QQ will go up about it till PGI gives in and nerfs it away to dry the tears of so many cheese addicts.
Let's be honest with ourselves. This is not a game of skill. This is a game about exploiting the designers and flaws and rules in their game for personal advantage.
"We know the name of this game, and it sure isn't pugilism" Joe Gould (Cinderella Man)
One of the builds I use and have moderate success with. This was a solid match. The big fight starts about 6 minutes in.
Based off reading this post I dont think hes assumed anything.
You havent even played a clan mech but claim they are OP. I would love LOVE to watch you get pressed to brawl in a Clan mech and watch you overheat and get torn apart when you realize you cant alpha 3-5 times without overheating like you can in properly quirked IS mechs.
Also there are tons of IS mechs with various loadouts that work fine in CW and offer all kinds of playstyles and weapons loadout preferences to be catered to. If you decide to run around in LRM boats, Unquirked/underquirked mechs or just build sub optimal builds that dont utilize quirks on the wrong chassis that is you gimping yourself not PGI gimping you or the Clans being OP. That is you being muley and stupid.
Your posts on every thread just SCREAM incompetent player crying about their easiest scapegoat for their suboptimal play and understanding of the game.
Exploiting game flaws would be me riding a firestarter around on a direwolf making you cry even more than you currently are, not you having no idea how to counter various contexts that arise in game because youre too dense.
Dawnstealer, on 05 March 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:
I agree they need different kind of modes, but I would avoid something like that: they need to be Mech-specific. Having an effect on later games would be fun, too:
Imagine attacking a world in a Beachhead Mode, where you're fighting to get a landing spot on the planet (so this would be the "kill the big gun" mode, if you'd like).
This opens up three Modes that the attacker gets to select from: Airfield, LongTom, and Power Generator.
Kill the Airfield? No airstrikes in the following round. Kill the Long Tom? No artillery. Kill the Power Generator? The turrets don't work and the gates are open.
So winning an early mission has an impact on a later one.
Great ideas, to the suggestion forums with you! I am sure that things like this are something PGI is really looking into in the long run as some things they have brought up relate to ideas like this.
Exploiting game flaws would be me riding a firestarter around on a direwolf making you cry even more than you currently are, not you having no idea how to counter various contexts that arise in game because youre too dense.
That wouldn't be much of an exploit, but putting a daishi on top of a raven 3L would
Necro, having read your post full of truthbombs, I'm going to take this opportunity to remind everyone that the most recent and trusted research suggests that people who are addicted to online gaming or to the internet in general almost universally display a pathological need to be in control of the things around them. Hence the internet, where you control what content you consume and how, and online gaming, where you control your avatar and can (to some degree) control the world around you. It's why people in online team-based games tend to rage a lot when their team does badly; they lose the ability to control the outcome of the game when the team performs poorly, or the goals of the team fail to conform to the goals of the addict.
Attack with a 12-man instead of defending as a pug
Seriously. That's all it really takes. Players attacking you have to be attacking together in the same faction. Most of the time, that means using teamspeak. If you attack the clans, a lot of the time, their defense is just as disorganized as Inner Sphere defense.
IS Pug defenses provide easy money for attacking clan players.
This is spot on.
Real Teamwork is OP. It's not the equipment as much as the team that plays together all the time. A mediocre player in a 12 man team that practices together is far superior to the best pug.
5
sycocys, on 04 March 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:
