183 replies to this topic

[Escef]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 03 March 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

I'd rather pay that, than what these people are expecting us to pay.

I have no idea what you think they expect of you. So far, you seem to think that because 7 days of premium time is $6 that you are expected to buy 52 weeks of premium every year for a total of over $300, yet they clearly have 360 days priced at a third of that.

Honesty, at this point, I think you're out of your mind.

SJ SCP Wolf, on 03 March 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

Your City of Heroes experience does not translate to this any better than my 6 years paying for WOW.

You played WoW for 6 years? Yeah, that explains a lot.

[luxebo]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 03 March 2015 - 05:27 PM, said:

You wear a clan tag. You know darn well then, that trials are 1v1. Forcing a 24 man requirement, because PGI refuses to pay for a few more hamsters to spin the server wheels is absurd.

If I have to 1v1/2v2 etc what I do is tell everyone to take energy trial boats (used to be nova, now banshee) except the trial participants and then the guys not in the fight will override alpha. This is only if we don't have a guy with prem on. Done this a couple times.

[Mystere]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 03 March 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

If PGI charged say I dunno, 30 dollars a month for a 24 slot sever that you could use at your leisure, I would call that reasonable.

The MWO environment is set up as an MMO. Welcome to 2015.

And if you don't like PGI's pricing, then fire up servers using the old games. Say hello to capitalism and freedom of choice.

Edited by Mystere, 03 March 2015 - 06:22 PM.

[BumbleBee]

You only need 2 people with premium time to host the match, everyone else can just be invited whether they have premium time or not. Have someone with PT start a lobby, invite the players entering the trial/training, and have another person with PT take lead on the other team, you dont even need full or even teams. We often have a Star Colonel (for supervising the trial/training) and a "Enemy Mech" or two on one team and everyone else on the other. Very easy. This is how we do training and trials in CGBI.

Honestly, think of it as supporting the game you play and helping ensure the servers stay up.

Edited by BumbleBee, 03 March 2015 - 06:32 PM.

[SJ SCP Wolf]

Mystere, on 03 March 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

The MWO environment is set up as an MMO. Welcome to 2015.

And if you don't like PGI's pricing, then fire up servers using the old games. Say hello to capitalism and freedom of choice.

MMOs charge a one time fee + a sub for all additional content up the next expac which usally costs sub 40 dollars. This is not that. Not even close.

BumbleBee, on 03 March 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

You only need 2 people with premium time to host the match, everyone else can just be invited whether they have premium time or not. Have someone with PT start a lobby, invite the players entering the trial/training, and have another person with PT take lead on the other team, you dont even need full or even teams. We often have a Start Colonel (for supervising the trial/training) and a "Enemy Mech" or two on one team and everyone else on the other. Very easy. This is how we do training and trials in CGBI.

Honestly, think of it as supporting the game you play and helping ensure the servers stay up.

I pay 60 dollars for a full retail game and the servers stay up for a decade plus. This is not that. That mentality is what has allowed PGI to justify the cost of a single mech variant against what other corporations deliver. Which is far far more for the same cost. I am a founder. I have bought many hero mechs and plenty of MC, as has everyone in my unit. This cost for private matches on top is excessive.

Edited by SJ SCP Wolf, 03 March 2015 - 06:32 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 03 March 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

They are holding us hostage by forcing us to use their private servers and you think this is ok? You're kidding me right.

That's really melodramatic. Not sure what the problem is. If you like the game, then pony up or go play one of those $60 games you were talking about.

[Gamuray]

"Helping ensure the servers stay up."

No. I assure you, that the servers would stay up just as well even if private matches were free. And they would get more use too. PGI staff wouldn't end up ay worse off without it, not with assault mechs costing ~$30+ each.. half the price of an entire, polished, one time purchase game, with free servers and little "bonus content" for extra revenue until DLC comes in, which is doesn't always do.

[SJ SCP Wolf]

Gamuray, on 03 March 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

"Helping ensure the servers stay up."

No. I assure you, that the servers would stay up just as well even if private matches were free. And they would get more use too. PGI staff wouldn't end up ay worse off without it, not with assault mechs costing ~$30+ each.. half the price of an entire, polished, one time purchase game, with free servers and little "bonus content" for extra revenue until DLC comes in, which is doesn't always do.

Finally someone with a bit of reason in their bones.

[StraferX]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 03 March 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

6 dollars x 52 weeks is 312 dollars for one person. How many other games do you commit that much money to in a year?

I understand where you are coming from and feel that the game is more pay to buy PGI an vacation island than a quality game. I personally rent a box in a server farm and run TS, 2 small personal business web sites and several good game servers and store tons of stuff for just $375.

[Fate 6]

This is far from an ideal solution, but technically you could do it with just 2 members having premium. Even in trials, you just need to 2 premium players to take team leads and then drop in stock Novas and explode themselves at the start. To do a 1v1 you would, at most, need 4 people, and only 2 of which would need premium.

I agree, it is extremely stupid, and most people brought this up when it was first announced.

[Mystere]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 03 March 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

MMOs charge a one time fee + a sub for all additional content up the next expac which usally costs sub 40 dollars. This is not that. Not even close.

I pay 60 dollars for a full retail game and the servers stay up for a decade plus. This is not that. That mentality is what has allowed PGI to justify the cost of a single mech variant against what other corporations deliver. Which is far far more for the same cost. I am a founder. I have bought many hero mechs and plenty of MC, as has everyone in my unit. This cost for private matches on top is excessive.

What's stopping you from firing up the old MW2/3/4 games and saving all that money you obviously dislike paying?

Edited by Mystere, 03 March 2015 - 07:14 PM.

[Gamuray]

@Fate 6

I believe that the point is not that the OP is UNABLE to get private matches for a low cost, but rather the point is that you have to pay AT ALL to have private matches, when most other games allow you to do so free. Heck MW4 and BattleZone 2 had free server services for a LONG time, and they weren't exactly "big league". Not to mention that those are relatively old titles. There is no excuse to not provide free private server services a decade+ later with a game that has an ACTIVE player base. Heck, if they wanted to no spend money on it then allow people to host servers of their own for private use, then the expense isn't on them in the first place.

Edit: Ignore the stricken section.

Edited by Gamuray, 03 March 2015 - 07:39 PM.

[Gamuray]

@Mystere

Gee, maybe because the decade long server service ended and private matches there are LAN only and 'out of date' .. meaning it plays different. The focus is on private matches, not the whole game.

I'll repeat this: There is NO VALID EXCUSE for PGI to require payment to have private matches.

[Mystere]

Gamuray, on 03 March 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

@Fate 6

I believe that the point is not that the OP is UNABLE to get private matches for a low cost, but rather the point is that you have to pay AT ALL to have private matches, when most other games allow you to do so free. Heck MW4 and BattleZone 2 had free server services for a LONG time, and they weren't exactly "big league". Not to mention that those are relatively old titles. There is no excuse to not provide free private server services a decade+ later with a game that has an ACTIVE player base. Heck, if they wanted to no spend money on it then allow people to host servers of their own for private use, then the expense isn't on them in the first place.

Edit: Ignore the stricken section.

Are basic concepts like "making money" and "maintaining control" so hard to grasp?

<You're not excused even if you live in North Korea >

[Fate 6]

Gamuray, on 03 March 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

@Fate 6

I believe that the point is not that the OP is UNABLE to get private matches for a low cost, but rather the point is that you have to pay AT ALL to have private matches, when most other games allow you to do so free. Heck MW4 and BattleZone 2 had free server services for a LONG time, and they weren't exactly "big league". Not to mention that those are relatively old titles. There is no excuse to not provide free private server services a decade+ later with a game that has an ACTIVE player base. Heck, if they wanted to no spend money on it then allow people to host servers of their own for private use, then the expense isn't on them in the first place.

Edit: Ignore the stricken section.

Fate 6, on 03 March 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

I agree, it is extremely stupid, and most people brought this up when it was first announced.

Thx for reading

[Gamuray]

@Mystere

Making money and maintaining control? Please, they make more money a day than one-time purchase games did 5 years after launch, and they still provides private server service. An trust be, they didn't lose money doing it or they wouldn't have done it. And maintaining control? Over what? Over people being able to play against just their friends? People being able to teach their friends outside of normal brutal combat? People being able to host a server where the setup is more fun than normal que's (oops)?

The only close to valid reason they have to charge for private servers is greed. And that's arguably still an invalid reason. If it was a couple people running the game from their house they'd have an excuse, but they also wouldn't have made the game an MMO. PGI is a game company who has chosen to make a MMO game that is Free to play. But has turned the free-to-play into, "Free to play against strangers, pay to play against friends (when you want to, one has no say in a random matchup against someone you know)" <-And that is just wrong. It's an unnecessary fee, and it's been a free provided feature for multiplayer games for a LONG time.

___________

@Fate 6

Hence why I struck out the first part, hadn't noticed the last line, but I still felt the post was relevent. Here, I'll strike out it addressing you too.

Edited by Gamuray, 03 March 2015 - 07:38 PM.

[Escef]

Gamuray, on 03 March 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

I'll repeat this: There is NO VALID EXCUSE for PGI to require payment to have private matches.

So long as your private match is 12v12 and adheres to 3x4 team construction rules you do not need premium time for a private match.

If you wish to break 12v12, 3x4, and/or select your map then, and only then, does it require premium time.

[KharnZor]

Gamuray, on 03 March 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

There is NO VALID EXCUSE for PGI to require payment to have private matches.

Yes there is. At the end of the day PGI is here to make money, they are not a charity. It is not unreasonable to for them to ask that atleast 2 people need to have premium time to have modified match rules and its not as if premium time is expensive.

[Void Angel]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 03 March 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

Really PGI? In order for my clan to have any kind of 1v1 trials or practice for them we have to have everyone buy premium time? Are you kidding me? The hundreds and thousands of dollars we have already spent, on hero mechs, clan mechs, on premium time already is not enough? Should I just PM Russ my routing and account numbers so he can withdraw from my account at his leisure? I have put up with a lot of your monetization of my cherished childhood universe, come on man.

Before you start white whales, we pay 60 dollars for full retail games, with dedicated server support and continued patches, so don't try to play this off like we are not supporting the game. This is gouginng the customer base to the nth degree.

Your universe? "White whales?" "Monetization?" I don't even know where to start with all this stupid. Lessee...

• You're claiming ownership of something you do not own. This is called lying, or (if successful) theft.
  
• You're yelling at a business for charging you money for the use of hardware that costs them money. This is normally referred to as entitlement - or possibly a psychosis; hard to be sure
  
• You seem to be incoherently mixing two pejoratives in a brazen and extremely ham-handed attempt to poison the well against the criticism you know is coming. This is called sophistry.
  
• "White Knight" is an excercise in brazen genetic fallacy and poisoning the well - you are simultaneously attempting to dismiss an argument which you have not heard due to its origin instead of its merits. This is called an invalid argument.
  
• Note also the appeal to public opinion, where "we" have spent "hundreds and thousands" of dollars on the game, so his opinion has weight. This is just stupid.
  
• "Whales" is a gambling term denoting a rich gambler who spends a large amount of money for the thrill of gambling, without appreciable skill and not caring if the gamble pays off, because the money is trivial to him. In this context it is a despicable attempt to invoke class envy and privilege by implying that anyone whoapproves of paying for server time which only they use (i.e. private matches) is 1) insensitive to the economic burdens of the poor, and 2) a fool without a grasp of the practical value of money for "the rest of us." This is called a lack of shame.

I also find the sudden, manufactured outburst of shocked rage at a long-standing policy to be laughable, but I had more than enough bullets. This entire argument fails on its own merits - indeed, it seems to have none - and if the original poster had any sense of shame, he would never have put it up. The only reason I'm even responding is to pile on the negative feedback on the off chance someone gets the idea that this silliness should be taken seriously.

[KharnZor]

Hundreds of thousands of dollars....
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS!