191 replies to this topic

[luxebo]

@Jonny it all comes down to the fact that there are far too many crap mechs and the 5 give or take mechs on either side are far more powerful. The issue as of right now is that the mechs on our side ain't as flexible as theirs.

The issue of 10v12 is coding, and also that we are pretty close to having an even match from both sides, but the issues are that it's not quite at the stage where IS mechs can do a thing better that all the Clan mechs can't. The Stormcrow, Timber, Dire Wolf, and we all know the Arctic Cheetah will fill so many roles at once it's nearly unstoppable, versus the specific specialization of many mechs on the IS side, which makes most IS mechs niche, therefore making most of them less prosperous and strong in game.

Here are my suggestions:
Buff absolutely useless mechs to more roles and allow them to do what other mechs can't do.

For example, make the Gargoyle a stronger flanker in brawling engagements by allowing it tankier armor and much more maneuverability in combat (make Gargs faster and less sluggish in comparison to Timber), while possibly allowing some weapon buffs.

We can also say that the Locust needs buffs now again due to the IS weight improvement, so now 2xLocust 2xKgc/AS7 isn't as strong now since they may as well buff both to Commandoes or buff one to Spider, making the Locust even less desirable. So here's a possible thing to give Locusts, even more armor buffs. Make them strong enough to take a few supposed shots to the vulnerable center. Or make them glass cannons by directly buffing their laser boating or give them ammo quirks to store twice the amount of ammo (since it lacks tonnage). Oh yeah and fix their heat sink issue by allowing em perfect heatsinks off the bat.

Basically put we should equalize as many mechs as possible to a good-great niche in the field. Make the tier list style to practically 3-2 tiers with decent --> good --> best type tiers rather than scrub level --> terribad --> still bad --> half decent --> 10 times better than any mech in the weight class. Every mech should have a niche in order to be used. No mech should be looked down upon, and no mech should be treated above everything.

[Destructicus]

I don't have a problem with tweaking for balance, but I do have a problem with IS constantly wanting us nerfed to the ground while they run around with 3 LL without ghost heat.

[cSand]

Destructicus, on 09 March 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

I don't have a problem with tweaking for balance, but I do have a problem with IS constantly wanting us nerfed to the ground while they run around with 3 LL without ghost heat.

Whoa hey hey

Some of us like you guys just the way you are

Edited by cSand, 09 March 2015 - 09:40 PM.

[Jonny Slam]

cSand, on 09 March 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

I own 4 clan mechs: pre-ordered the Stormcrow cause of the brofists the prime had, and mastered the Summoners but only kept 1.

Currently 118 matches between all of them.

So now that's out of the way

Listen:

People been singing and dancing, like yourself, about some mass exodus to the clans since they came out. I mean, we're still waiting for it to happen after almost a year. But yea.

Oh and hey, what happens to the group and solo queues once you implement 10 v 12 for CW? Those are the places in the game where most of the people play, by the way. Especially new players.

That's right. Mass exodus to all powerful clan mechs.

I would love to see where PGI stated "better tech, smaller numbers".

Actually I wouldn't, cause none of this matters. The 10 v 12 boat sailed long ago and it's not coming back.

Don't worry I'll put a few big bad clannies in the grave for you while I'm out there

Sand, would it be to much for you to act like a rational adult? Because I have bad news for you, I'm not going to take the troll bait, and sling insults no matter how hard you try.

I'm not singing or dancing I'm commenting on the clan shift that is going on right now, and will continue unless a suitable solution is found. You may feel free to mock me and try to shout me down but that only reflects on you not the issue. So stop trying to personalize this, it's about the issue, it's not about you.

Solo and group ques stay the same 12 vs 12 because you can pick whatever mech you want and can field, take a clan mech if you want or don't either way safe bet you will have more than a couple on your team. Those ques don't come into it.

It is in CW that the numbers will need to be adjusted be that is where the balance of the superior clan tech unfettered by equal numbers is warping the player base.

[Yokaiko]

Jonny Slam, on 09 March 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

Sand, would it be to much for you to act like a rational adult? Because I have bad news for you, I'm not going to take the troll bait, and sling insults no matter how hard you try.

I'm not singing or dancing I'm commenting on the clan shift that is going on right now, and will continue unless a suitable solution is found. You may feel free to mock me and try to shout me down but that only reflects on you not the issue. So stop trying to personalize this, it's about the issue, it's not about you.

Solo and group ques stay the same 12 vs 12 because you can pick whatever mech you want and can field, take a clan mech if you want or don't either way safe bet you will have more than a couple on your team. Those ques don't come into it.

It is in CW that the numbers will need to be adjusted be that is where the balance of the superior clan tech unfettered by equal numbers is warping the player base.

If there was a lick of truth to that statement that would be one thing.

[delushin]

Can I just clarify is this debate between clan and IS, 12 v 12 CW matches being conducted assuming its a full 12 man unit on comms versus another 12 man unit on comms, with no pugs?

Edited by delushin, 09 March 2015 - 09:47 PM.

[Knight Magus]

Triordinant, on 09 March 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

LOL, if they stuck to Lore it would be 1 Clan Star vs 1 IS Company. I mentioned something about this at least 4 months ago.

More like 2 stars vs a company - unless you picked all the low bpv is mechs and all the high bpv clan mechs.

[cSand]

Jonny Slam, on 09 March 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

Sand, would it be to much for you to act like a rational adult? Because I have bad news for you, I'm not going to take the troll bait, and sling insults no matter how hard you try.

I'm not singing or dancing I'm commenting on the clan shift that is going on right now, and will continue unless a suitable solution is found. You may feel free to mock me and try to shout me down but that only reflects on you not the issue. So stop trying to personalize this, it's about the issue, it's not about you.

Solo and group ques stay the same 12 vs 12 because you can pick whatever mech you want and can field, take a clan mech if you want or don't either way safe bet you will have more than a couple on your team. Those ques don't come into it.

It is in CW that the numbers will need to be adjusted be that is where the balance of the superior clan tech unfettered by equal numbers is warping the player base.

Guy, nothing in there was an insult. If you take it as such I suggest you speak to your armour salesman cause he's screwing you big time. 0 personal shots in there.

You know though, after reading your latest masterpiece here, I'm beginning to think Yokaiko was right.


And you know what else?

I guarantee you they're not as good as mine

[Jonny Slam]

Destructicus, on 09 March 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

You think expecting someone to attempt to be civil is funny huh?

[Destructicus]

Jonny Slam, on 09 March 2015 - 09:48 PM, said:

You seriously have to grow up mate, it's fine to behave this way if your just going to play, but if your going to come on the forums and just try to cause grief? well that's just not on.

And saying "go report me!" it's like dealing with a cranky kid, please grow up.

I'm noticing a trend where you seem to passively ad hominem people who disagree with you and attempt a little too hard to come off as condescending.
it's kind of funny.

Jonny Slam, on 09 March 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

You think expecting someone to attempt to be civil is funny huh?

Civil?
No.
Threatening to report someone because you don't like the way they presented their point?
Yes.

Edited by Destructicus, 09 March 2015 - 09:52 PM.

[KharnZor]

I think IS mechs are generally better.
but meh, people gunna people i guess

[Yokaiko]

Destructicus, on 09 March 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'm noticing a trend where you seem to passively ad hominem people who disagree with you and attempt a little too hard to come off as condescending.
it's kind of funny.



Civil?
No.
Threatening to report someone because you don't like the way they presented their point?
Yes.

I'm waiting for another nasty gram from PGI saying something about "with your post history".

Jonny Slam, on 09 March 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

Why would you be proud of that?

I call it like it is. If you want kid gloves talk to your girl.

[Jonny Slam]

Destructicus, on 09 March 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'm noticing a trend where you seem to passively ad hominem people who disagree with you and attempt a little too hard to come off as condescending.
it's kind of funny.



Civil?
No.
Threatening to report someone because you don't like the way they presented their point?
Yes.

Well I guess I'm not surprised that you would say that considering your posts and likes of the last day, you appear to find abusive posts humorous and like to attack folks that are making a genuine effort to be civil.

But this is pretty typical for people trying to derail subjects they are threatened by, so no biggy.

[Yokaiko]

KharnZor, on 09 March 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

I think IS mechs are generally better.
but meh, people gunna people i guess

Its not them its TIBERWOLF OVERPOWA!!!!!


I don't even run them currently.

Jonny Slam, on 09 March 2015 - 09:55 PM, said:

Well I guess I'm not surprised that you would say that considering your posts and likes of the last day, you appear to find abusive posts humorous and like to attack folks that are making a genuine effort to be civil.

But this is pretty typical for people trying to derail subjects they are threatened by, so no biggy.

Too funny.

[cSand]

Destructicus, on 09 March 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

ad homineming

not to detract from this serious situation here but that's a great word you got yourself there

[delushin]

I can see peoples frustration as everyone wants the full experience of what MWO can offer including CW, and sometimes you might only be able to drop pug groups. More often than not when you drop solo you get a 8+ man team which results in being rolled, we can assume its an 8+ man clan team as there seems to be more people being attracted to the assumed stronger side.

This is unfortunate because teamwork and a good unit massively aid in the outcome of a CW match and a new player might not know or be part of that.

Just bring:

Streak stalker
Lazor Stalker
Lazor Firestarer
Whatever (I bring a blackjack)

Love watching clanners melt to a 10+ drop of stalkers ... muahahahahahahaha

[Yokaiko]

Destructicus, on 09 March 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

Being civil and ad homineming people who you disagree with are two different things.

Try not to fall off your high horse.

That is a long fall.

[Destructicus]

cSand, on 09 March 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

not to detract from this serious situation here but that's a great word you got yourself there

I also like ad hominy and ad harmony

[Jonny Slam]

luxebo, on 09 March 2015 - 09:36 PM, said:

@Jonny it all comes down to the fact that there are far too many crap mechs and the 5 give or take mechs on either side are far more powerful. The issue as of right now is that the mechs on our side ain't as flexible as theirs.

The issue of 10v12 is coding, and also that we are pretty close to having an even match from both sides, but the issues are that it's not quite at the stage where IS mechs can do a thing better that all the Clan mechs can't. The Stormcrow, Timber, Dire Wolf, and we all know the Arctic Cheetah will fill so many roles at once it's nearly unstoppable, versus the specific specialization of many mechs on the IS side, which makes most IS mechs niche, therefore making most of them less prosperous and strong in game.

Here are my suggestions:
Buff absolutely useless mechs to more roles and allow them to do what other mechs can't do.

For example, make the Gargoyle a stronger flanker in brawling engagements by allowing it tankier armor and much more maneuverability in combat (make Gargs faster and less sluggish in comparison to Timber), while possibly allowing some weapon buffs.

We can also say that the Locust needs buffs now again due to the IS weight improvement, so now 2xLocust 2xKgc/AS7 isn't as strong now since they may as well buff both to Commandoes or buff one to Spider, making the Locust even less desirable. So here's a possible thing to give Locusts, even more armor buffs. Make them strong enough to take a few supposed shots to the vulnerable center. Or make them glass cannons by directly buffing their laser boating or give them ammo quirks to store twice the amount of ammo (since it lacks tonnage). Oh yeah and fix their heat sink issue by allowing em perfect heatsinks off the bat.

Basically put we should equalize as many mechs as possible to a good-great niche in the field. Make the tier list style to practically 3-2 tiers with decent --> good --> best type tiers rather than scrub level --> terribad --> still bad --> half decent --> 10 times better than any mech in the weight class. Every mech should have a niche in order to be used. No mech should be looked down upon, and no mech should be treated above everything.

I don't know Lux, I appreciate the thought behind your ideas here but really I worry this would be more valuable time and resources thrown at buffing and quirking our way out of a dead end and wasted in the end.

I just see all the energy spent on the quirks thus far and they have done so much more damage than good. They haven't gotten us anywhere near a usable outcome. Between Mechs that the Clans scream about to mechs that become absolutely useless in a day to IS pilots, and that doesn't even address how out of whack it will all go once the Clans start getting quirked. Any kind of consistent benchmark will be irretrievably lost and at that point it will be a mad grab for balance as both sides relentlessly lobby for their babies.

Edited by Jonny Slam, 09 March 2015 - 10:03 PM.

[cSand]

Destructicus, on 09 March 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

I also like ad hominy and ad harmony

I am calling Webster's right now