69 replies to this topic

[Hans Von Lohman]

Quote

Team quality is absolutely beyond ridiculous lately. I've had 3 winning sessions in the last 21 days. Yesterday I was grouping with two clan mates, everyone with roughly the same level of skill as myself; bordering on 52% W/L ratio. I know we're not the best players, but we are not crappy either. Ya think would could win some games, maybe get up to BOT level? F***ING!!!!! forgetabout it. 36 games, 30.5% W/L. Busted my [edited]every game. I don't have the skill to carry 9 sacks of excrement every game, applause to those who do, but it's not me. In the end it's ridiculous that PGI figures that it's player base enjoys this. 18 of 21 days the teams are so bad it's impossible to win. How does that happen, and this is not the first time either. It's cap like this that drives players away. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND their business model. I can see that it works, but I cannot comprehend how.

I know that I am not giving up this game because I am hopelessly addicted it, but for crying out loud PGI you have to do something to improve the game experience.

This quote is taken directly from another forum...for world of tanks. Yes, I did edit it to refer to MWO instead of world of tanks.

Something tells me that matchmaking is hard, MWO is probably decent at it, and complaining is just part of the forums. I have a hard time listening to the people who have issues with Match Making around here.
In fact, I would say we have about the same level of complaining about match making as World of Tanks or League of Legends.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 11 March 2015 - 10:21 AM.

[Corbenik]

People just like to complain or talk smack for no reason anywhere, had a guy in one pug match he was one of our assaults and we were in River City we spawned at the docks so first thing the other assaults and myself leave the docks and head north to get away from the enemy that usually comes to the docks and the King Crab starts walking towards them, we tell em "hey don't go that way all our team is up north you will die" and sure as heck he dies in a couple secs. and starts talking crap not even game related crap just straight out crap talk.

[Vandul]

Let me make sure I understand this

Because we dont have enough threads about matchmaking, you copied a matchmaking rant thread from another game and changed it to our game and posted it here?

[The Massive]

OP I think you win the Forums for today.

[Iskareot]

Hans Von Lohman, on 11 March 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

This quote is taken directly from another forum...for world of tanks. Yes, I did edit it to refer to MWO instead of world of tanks.

Something tells me that matchmaking is hard, MWO is probably decent at it, and complaining is just part of the forums. I have a hard time listening to the people who have issues with Match Making around here.
In fact, I would say we have about the same level of complaining about match making as World of Tanks or League of Legends.

Here is the issue.. the fact we know it takes a good player and a bad one... and in HOPES of balance, they tell us we have to carry. With that said... it is the worst concept idea ever.

MAKE TIERS OF THE SYSTEM... there is no reason why a player of 2 years plus should be with a player of 1 month... It really is a uneven concept. Then the bad player:... WHO KNOWS how bad they are and or why.. I have seen idiots just shoot through team mates with no clue been playing a week... yet I have played for over 2.5 years and can snag my 500 damage most of the time and have a decent kdr for a pug. IT IS TOO HARD to control the idiot driving in circles for no reason and all and staring at the rocks on a map. We just need a tiered option *****... (all players of X time X kdr , X stats and so on... keep the same system but pit more equal skilled players against each other and less wild cards.

NOW THEN.. on a side note I dont know if we have the population for that anymore. I keep seeing the same guys in some drops and that is a scary thing... seeing the same 24 people over and over in drops is not a good thing really.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Vandul, on 11 March 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Let me make sure I understand this

Because we dont have enough threads about matchmaking, you copied a matchmaking rant thread from another game and changed it to our game and posted it here?

Yes, and it seems to have gone right over your head as to why?

Maybe matchmaking is working as intended. We have FEWER complaints about it than other games.

My bet is the irate players who want to flame MWO matchmaker will read this thread, nod in agreement with the gospel laid out in the quote, start getting ready to flame and rant in response

...and them come up short when they see it is a world of tanks forum post.

Sort of takes the edge off when you see that, right?

MWO matchmaking is probably one of the better ones out there from what I can see.

[Ushka]

I wanna complain on the people that dont wanna complain

nono on serius note, love this game and think pgi do great work
and i was not a fan of shooter games but this 1 i am

[Almond Brown]

It is just a Universal Truth. Gamers who lose, when playing along side other gamers, will blame everyone and everything BUT themselves for said Loses. It may even extend into the 5th dimension. Hard to tell though. LOL

[Almond Brown]

Iskareot, on 11 March 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

Here is the issue.. the fact we know it takes a good player and a bad one... and in HOPES of balance, they tell us we have to carry. With that said... it is the worst concept idea ever.

MAKE TIERS OF THE SYSTEM... there is no reason why a player of 2 years plus should be with a player of 1 month...

stuff

Even those Tiers of yours are known to have internal "levels" though. I have seen complaints about players who were in the same Tier, but obviously not the same Level of Tier. Talk about crying tiers.

There is simply no way to win that fight, (you just can't have 5K Tiers) no matter how fine you grind the grain... you always have chaff left over.

[Jon Gotham]

Hans Von Lohman, on 11 March 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

This quote is taken directly from another forum...for world of tanks. Yes, I did edit it to refer to MWO instead of world of tanks.

Something tells me that matchmaking is hard, MWO is probably decent at it, and complaining is just part of the forums. I have a hard time listening to the people who have issues with Match Making around here.
In fact, I would say we have about the same level of complaining about match making as World of Tanks or League of Legends.

The mm in WOT is BRUTAL though, utterly brutal. For your own sanity never install XVM. How they got yellow to equal average is beyond me. The average player I see is red, deep dark red. Even after 10 thousand attempts....still red...

I actually still do not understand how MWO mm works, because I have positive stats yet I think I'm in a bad elo range due to the behaviour of the players on my teams. Sometimes I simply cannot believe what I watch:)

[Vandul]

Hans Von Lohman, on 11 March 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

Yes, and it seems to have gone right over your head as to why?

Maybe matchmaking is working as intended. We have FEWER complaints about it than other games.

My bet is the irate players who want to flame MWO matchmaker will read this thread, nod in agreement with the gospel laid out in the quote, start getting ready to flame and rant in response

...and them come up short when they see it is a world of tanks forum post.

Sort of takes the edge off when you see that, right?

MWO matchmaking is probably one of the better ones out there from what I can see.

While it may be better, there are already countless threads about MM in our own forums already. You could have simply posted in one of those and said:
"Be glad we arent using WoT's MatchMaker. I heard its awful"
and been done with it.

[Davers]

The MM does what it can, but there are too many other factors that affect matches. Maybe we should have check boxes to adjust Elo, such as Drunk, AFK For Doorbell, Distracting Child, Attention Starved Pet, and Wife Aggro?

[Fate 6]

Almond Brown, on 11 March 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

It is just a Universal Truth. Gamers who lose, when playing along side other gamers, will blame everyone and everything BUT themselves for said Loses. It may even extend into the 5th dimension. Hard to tell though. LOL

There are times when I say I lost and I could have played better and maybe won, but that doesn't change the fact that either way I'm playing to carry that guy that did sub 50 damage in an assault mech. It's hard to blame myself for the loss sometimes, even if I know it is my job to be the carry, because it shouldn't be my job to be the carry and make up for other people. If I fail to carry, though, it is still my fault, and that's why I think the system is broken.

[Veritae]

Davers, on 11 March 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

Maybe we should have check boxes to adjust Elo, such as Drunk, AFK For Doorbell, Distracting Child, Attention Starved Pet, and Wife Aggro?

I support this. You win the internets today, sir.

[Water Bear]

You can't listen to MM complaints for many reasons. Among them is the following:

If it's working perfectly and you're playing at your typical skill level, then you should lose about 50% of your games. So if each match is independent, when you queue up your success is kind of like flipping a coin.

Fun fact: Arbitrarily long runs of consecutive heads and tails appear with positive probabilities in long coin tossing games. I forget the exact details, but basically it is not impossible (nor even really that uncommon) to see, say, a string of 100 consecutive heads if you toss a coin for a long time. Computing this probability is one of those fun first-week-of-class problems in any graduate probability course.

The quote the OP references could be (approximately) the above phenomenon.

Besides that, sometimes you just have a bad day. [Edited for conciseness].

Moreover, MWO is the kind of game where if a few otherwise good players make a few bad decisions, a lot of bad can suddenly happen. Imagine a game of chess where the pieces control themselves and your Queen decides it's time to try a flanking maneuver and gets taken immediately by a pawn. Well, your game just got a lot harder, didn't it?

The list of conceivable explanations for observed match maker behavior goes on. Yet another that comes to mind is that even if a game ends 12-5, for example, it might be that the total health of the team with 7 survivors is something like 45%. Yea there are 7 of them alive, but they're 1 medium laser to the chest away from death. This would explain why 12-11 games are so rare. When both teams are down to 20% health, all it takes is one double-ER-large-laser Raven on a hill to wipe out 3 guys in 3 volleys.

Edited by Water Bear, 11 March 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

This biggest issue is the lack of the new player experience. Having new players go through 'training' and explaining things like weapon positioning and your mech's movement, size, etc, would create a much better playing environment.

[vamrat]

When I first read the complaint I was thinking, "you dweeb. If you think this MM sucks, you outta play..."

And then I saw it was about WOT and was thinking, "you poor soul. I have felt your pain. If you need to cry, I have a shoulder open for you."

I played WOT for a couple years (like back when the KV-1s and VK3601s ruled the earth...) and it was one of my favorite games. I sunk a lot of money into that and enjoyed it for the majority of the time.

That out of the way, the major problems with WOT (and WOWP) is the tier spread. There are some weapons that just will not do any damage. (That one bounced!!!) You get little no points for scouting, flanking, harassing, just for pure damage and kills. If you are stuck with a sub-par gun you might as well quit, except then you make even less silver for the time spent, so might as well wait for the Sky Cancer (arty) to range in on you and finish it. (haha, LRMS. They just wish they had a 203mm arcing death ray). And lets not start with the God-awful HESH launcher. That's when I quit.

Now, in MWO, I have killed an Atlas in a Locust. I have gotten most damage on an assault mech while piloting that nasty bug. Take on an E-75 in a Tiger? Get out of here. In MWO any mech can mount the same weapons their hard points and weight allows for. In WOT there are just some crappy tanks you have to suffer through, and some that are acceptable in a certain range but are totally outclassed by the tier system.

[CrazyDave1313]

vamrat, on 11 March 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

When I first read the complaint I was thinking, "you dweeb. If you think this MM sucks, you outta play..."

And then I saw it was about WOT and was thinking, "you poor soul. I have felt your pain. If you need to cry, I have a shoulder open for you."

I played WOT for a couple years (like back when the KV-1s and VK3601s ruled the earth...) and it was one of my favorite games. I sunk a lot of money into that and enjoyed it for the majority of the time.

That out of the way, the major problems with WOT (and WOWP) is the tier spread. There are some weapons that just will not do any damage. (That one bounced!!!) You get little no points for scouting, flanking, harassing, just for pure damage and kills. If you are stuck with a sub-par gun you might as well quit, except then you make even less silver for the time spent, so might as well wait for the Sky Cancer (arty) to range in on you and finish it. (haha, LRMS. They just wish they had a 203mm arcing death ray). And lets not start with the God-awful HESH launcher. That's when I quit.

Now, in MWO, I have killed an Atlas in a Locust. I have gotten most damage on an assault mech while piloting that nasty bug. Take on an E-75 in a Tiger? Get out of here. In MWO any mech can mount the same weapons their hard points and weight allows for. In WOT there are just some crappy tanks you have to suffer through, and some that are acceptable in a certain range but are totally outclassed by the tier system.

This guy knows. As a veteran of WoT, it has far worse problems than MWO, with the tier system being the primary culprit. The days of trying to grind an M3 Lee against Tigers four tiers above you... those were dark times (not to mention that you had to pay for repairs after getting one-shotted and dealing no damage). I actually recently played a little bit of it again, just to see if anything had changed. The fact that you regularly fight things that are better than you in every respect - armor, speed, damage - is disheartening; in MWO, even a Locust can fight and beat an Atlas.

MWO certainly has its flaws, but there's a reason I migrated from WoT.

[LordKnightFandragon]

The WoT MM is ajoke, hell, most of woT is a joke. Its got RNG that will baffle you with how wildly off the wall it is. One minute your 198 pen gun is penning through E75s, the next its bouncing off the sides of scout tanks, one minute you get 5 unicum super men and a glob of green players and the enemy is 15 beet red terribads and the next its flipped....

MWO seems to be mostly the same thing, except it has no RNG in terms of damage, but it surely has the horrid MM.....except here, teaming up means you get nothing but 12 mans against your 2 man and pugs.

[Jman5]

There are some ways I would like to see Matchmaker improve, but it's not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. Too many people think too highly of themselves and are too critical of their teammates.

I have found that there are only 3 ways to deal with competitive multiplayer games.

1. Be casual.

2. Play on a super competitive team where you win 3/4 of the time. play solo queue at your peril my high strung friend.

3. Focus on self-improvement instead of blaming your teammates at every turn. This in my opinion is the best option. If your goal in the game is to get better at some thing particular like torso twisting, you shift your emotional attachment to your torso twisting performance instead of the outcome of the match. You might just gotten 12-0'd but that was damn fine torso twisting.

Edited by Jman5, 11 March 2015 - 02:54 PM.