217 replies to this topic

[Molossian Dog]

Are you spelling words wrong and punctuating randomly on purpose as a kind of stylistic device?

I cannot tell. I am honestly curious.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 20 April 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

Grimwill, on 19 April 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

are you sure about that cause im pretty sure that any IS assault mech can destroy a clan assault mech, the warhawk is garbage, the gargoyle is garbage, all we have is the dire whale.

Give us the Blood Asp PGI....and lets even the odds a bit, those clan star adders make some nasty mechs!

if you feel those mechs are garbage, the bloodasp isn't going to work out well either.

[Richter Kerensky]

Eddison Trend, on 20 April 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

Gauss Rifles are just as good as a weapon inside of 600 meters since they're heat-neutral and deal 15 damage all at once, and weigh half as much as the IS version. 2 C-LPLs deal the almost same damage with almost the same burn time for almost the same heat cost at a longer range as 3 IS LLs.

Believe what you want to believe. It is definitely a lot easier to complain than it is to build your mechs intelligently and work to your considerable advantages because some IS players had the gall to shoot back at you. Any argument can be countered by the fact that oh no! A Surprise Stalker Was Waiting Around The Corner And Killed Me. Nothing I Could Do.

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 20 April 2015 - 04:34 PM.

[Roland09]

See? I told you numbers don't count with these Clammers.

[Pat Kell]

clan guass is 12 tons, IS guass is 15 tons...think your math is a bit off..clan Large pulse is a fantastic weapon though, no doubt about it. Clans have a lot of advantages and after playing IS mechs for a little over a week (not very long, I admit) I have to admit that I certainly prefer clan mechs but that has a lot to do with my play style too. If you are going to make arguments though, you should get your facts straight, clan guass does not weigh half as much as the IS version.

[Richter Kerensky]

My mistake. It still weighs 3 tons less, takes up one fewer slot, and is otherwise the same weapon.

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 20 April 2015 - 10:56 PM.

[Molossian Dog]

Richter Kerensky, on 20 April 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

My mistake. It still weighs 3 tons less, takes up one fewer slot, and is otherwise the same weapon.

Not enuff buff, stravag!

Anything below the power discrepancy at the first clan release will be seen as deliberate slight against the "clearly more experienced/skilled players" who naturally would play for the clan side.

This is the clam mindset. Nothing you or your fancy facts and numbers can do about.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 21 April 2015 - 01:55 AM.

[Drakaan]

Eddison Trend, on 20 April 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

...and lets say you do that and you kill that thunder , what you gonna do about the bansee that was shooting the **** out of you all this time non-stop. Or about the stalker that just turned around the corner just now?

Laughed quite heartily reading this...

Are you seriously asking for mechs with the ability to deal with 3 opponents (2 assaults and a heavy) worth 245t of tonnage singlehandedly? That's the weight of a whole dropdeck man! Is that what clanner fanboys are crying for? Hope such stuff will never happen...

By the way, never a good idea to get singled out and have to fight 1v1 or 1v3. (You know, teamwork is so OP... )

Think the balance right now is generally good, with some things to slightly adjust on both sides of the ball. Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages. But you have to play to the strengths of your mechs. Adapt your style.

@Pat Kell: Lot of respect for KCom. Good sports, good pilots. Always nice to get a beating by you guys. See ya on the battlefield soon...

Edited by Drakaan, 21 April 2015 - 02:58 AM.

[Eddison Trend]

Richter Kerensky, on 20 April 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

Gauss Rifles are just as good as a weapon inside of 600 meters since they're heat-neutral and deal 15 damage all at once, and weigh half as much as the IS version. 2 C-LPLs deal the almost same damage with almost the same burn time for almost the same heat cost at a longer range as 3 IS LLs.

Believe what you want to believe. It is definitely a lot easier to complain than it is to build your mechs intelligently and work to your considerable advantages because some IS players had the gall to shoot back at you. Any argument can be countered by the fact that oh no! A Surprise Stalker Was Waiting Around The Corner And Killed Me. Nothing I Could Do.

I never used the gauss rifle as an IS player , nor as clan player cuz ashide its weight and complicated firing mechanism , it also needs at least 3 tons of ammo to be viable . In my opinion its a bad trade off for just 15 dmg points. I could get the same with 3 IS ML's or 2 LL's and an extra dhs or just 2 ML'S and an extra dhs as a clanner . And before you mention the no-heat and longer range , i ll remind you that most engagements happen below 500 metters in where almost every weapon is effective . And when you are in an engagement in where the one that deals the most dmg in the sorter amount of time wins , then weaps like ERLL's with their long duration and cooldown and gauss rifles with their complicated firing mechanism , are out of the question.And if you want my opinion ,such builds plus some pure lrms boats that still exist out there , are exactly the reason why the clans are losing atm...and they will keep losing till they ll figure out that they have no longer the range advandage , and that "peekaboo" and "marco polo" (aka fire trades) against assaults are no more viable tactics. Another reason is that the clanner have this "feeling" that his mechs is "...too valuable to be wasted"...so they are not commeting to any targets . They are just satisfied to see huge dmg numbers after the match ends , which makes em feel good about themeself. Now if those numbers achieved in an effective way or not , thats totaly "irrelevant" to them. .."da good player is da one with huge numbers , more kills and staying alive till the end"...thats why you see them all , retreat backwards constantly when they meet an assault push , till IS reach their spawn points and finaly get camped . Cuz they are after "da numbers" and to stay alive.
Allow me to give you an example here....a few days ago , me and another player we were defending in grimm portigo .I was using 4 novas "tank destroyer" build with sort range weaps , and he was using streakcrows mostly . I died at around the 17th min , having 5 kills and 993 dmg , he last till the end of the match and having 5 kills and 2550 dmg . According to clans philosophy , he was the better player cuz he had more than twice the dmg and last till the end . That i took those 5 kills against 3 stalkers and 2 thunders at the early stages of the battle almost single handed (most dmg dealt , solo kill , brawling , etc) no one cared about...as a matter of fact , i received (not from him , but from some of the rest of the team mates) some sarcastic comments like..."oh eddi , try to stay alive next time".So yeah nowdays? , i am all about "screw this " , i just changed my builds to 3ML's+3MPL's and just going for the dmg and survival .Is it better now?..no ofc not cuz no matter how much dmg i get with my first 2 mechs (which is a bit better , 1200+) , i constantly keep losing the last 2 mechs from spawncamps.
As about me complaining and not trying new builds...yeah well , you are talking to the wrong guy here . I constantly change builds and configurations on my novas , as often as my cbills allows me too which is at least once per week (some times more often) . I tried everything that a nova can carries whithin its viable parameters . Thats how i know a few things about clan weaponry . Cuz i actualy put em on use , not by doing educated quesses on a paper .
As for the C-LPL's , they are ok , as long you add no other back-up energy weap on your mech .Cuz as you know , heat generation is not a linear proccess , and while you fire 1 or 2 LPL's and things are good , the momment you touch your right button and activate the secondary weaps you add (doesnt matter what kind) , the heat jumps 30-40% . That practicaly means that you need to back off and cool down...so yeah , great firepower on paper ,...bad overal firing rate . Shoot once , back off , cool down several secs , shoot again!....you cant win like this against an onslaught of assaults which they are pushing fast all together like in a parade , towards your gens or drop points . You just dont have the time to deal enough dmg , its just that simple as . Cooling down your mech that often , it just eating up all your firing potentials.
Conserning balistics?...yeah well with the exception of the LBX series , everything else opperates and performs like lets say "better machine guns" and can only be used as secondary/back-up and , not as main weap. Also you need to consider , where those weaps are supposed to be added . Cuz , granted they are lighter than IS counterparts , but their firing pattern suggests that they need from you to use em in pairs , otherwise they are ineffective (why you think the trial darewhale has 4 uac2's ?) . And which class of mechs can effectively do that?...summoners and above. And if you do add a couple of heavies , or a compo of assault and heavy , then one needs to wonder what will happen to the rest of his dropdeck?...can you see where am i going with this?....its a domino effect mate.
I was IS player for the most part of the almost 2 years in this game , and only the past month i tried the clanners and their mechs . What i can tell you is that i am very dissapointed , cuz for their cost and supposed "superiority" , the pilots build options are very very limited . Lemmie give you an example . Back in the day , i had some hunchbacks 3 or 4 if mem serves . With each mech , i could come up with 3-4 different builds , from balistic heavy , to missile heavy to laserboats , all of them effective enough and with a significantly low cost . A month ago i bought 4 novas , 1 nova prime , 2 nova B , and 1 nova S....they all have now the same build mate. Wonna know why?...cuz if you exclude the ballistics for the reasons i explained above , your omnipods can only allow you to manipulate....the range of your weaps , and nothing more.I suspect that stormcrow or timber pilots , have also faced similar problems , thus i have no intention on buying any other clan mech till i see at least 4+ variants of each , so maybe there will be more options . And if you ask my opinion , it would be foolish from my part to keep supporting blindly , a company (PGI) that shows very lil respect to its customers money and which seems to faction like "microsoft"...lets install something now that looks cool , and if it wont work?...oh well we can always release 3-4 service packs (patches in this case) and fix it.
What i am trying to say here is that from my experience , everything in this game looks cool on paper . From maps and graphics , to mechs of both sides...till you try em out . And if you spend real money on this game , (at least me) , cant escape the feeling that you got scummed . I do feel for those poor guys that payed a gagilion of money to pre-order timbers and crows not long ago in order to support the game , and now Russ said that they will get "negative stats" . Like i said...very lil respect to the customers money.


@Molossian dog

Mate if you are reffering to me , English is not my native language , and i do the best i can with what i ve learned at school , some 23+ years ago . If there is something from my post that you cant understand , i could clarify it to you , otherwise sarcastic comments like such , i could just ignore em and move on , k?

[Eddison Trend]

Drakaan, on 21 April 2015 - 02:40 AM, said:

Laughed quite heartily reading this... Are you seriously asking for mechs with the ability to deal with 3 opponents (2 assaults and a heavy) worth 245t of tonnage singlehandedly? That's the weight of a whole dropdeck man! Is that what clanner fanboys are crying for? Hope such stuff will never happen... By the way, never a good idea to get singled out and have to fight 1v1 or 1v3. (You know, teamwork is so OP... ) Think the balance right now is generally good, with some things to slightly adjust on both sides of the ball. Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages. But you have to play to the strengths of your mechs. Adapt your style. @Pat Kell: Lot of respect for KCom. Good sports, good pilots. Always nice to get a beating by you guys. See ya on the battlefield soon...

Thats not what i said. I just said that if you make such a sort range build like that , in a timber in order to close the distance with a thunder and beat it in a "duel" , you will be so exposed that you wont last a sec in the open , when their team mates come to support him .Now , considering the fact that IS formations are consisted of assaults plus heavies , and they always stick together , then yeah...you get the picture.

As for the balance , if you examine it ton per ton and mech per mech ,yes it looks fine. If you look at it , deck per deck , clans are in huge disadvandage cuz like i said before , they are forced to bring heavies (in most case only just one , a single timber that is ) to deal with assaults , and mediums to deal with everything else (IS heavies , mediums , lights , etc.)
How is this on any way fair or even comparable ?...cuz extra tonnage suggests extra armor and durability ,so yeah once again balance on paper .

[PhoenixNMGLB]

I don't know if it is the mechs or the pilots but clans can't hold against an IS push.

The mentality has become hang back and when they push run away and surrender all the objectives and drop zones.

So many times I have seen an IS heavy and assault push just waltz through a base while half the team mills around omega (maybe trying to conserve their KD ratio?).

What's with this?

[Eddison Trend]

PhoenixNMGLB, on 21 April 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

I don't know if it is the mechs or the pilots but clans can't hold against an IS push.

The mentality has become hang back and when they push run away and surrender all the objectives and drop zones.

So many times I have seen an IS heavy and assault push just waltz through a base while half the team mills around omega (maybe trying to conserve their KD ratio?).

What's with this?

Its exactly what i described above mate . The "Golum" mentality...."My preeeeeecious...mech"..."My precious staaaats..."

[PhoenixNMGLB]

Eddison Trend, on 21 April 2015 - 03:37 AM, said:

Its exactly what i described above mate . The "Golum" mentality...."My preeeeeecious...mech"..."My precious staaaats..."

Aff.

I am interested to see if this is sheer cowardice or due to the perceived belief that clan mechs can't stand up to IS mechs?

Anyone else got any thoughts?

[Drakaan]

Quote from Russ' post after the cw event:

"First of all I was very happy with the participation and overall numbers we were seeing in CW, with around 1500-1800 players in CW matches at any given moment.

Key Stats:

- 8140 matches of CW were played during the event.
- 4347 Invasion
- 3793 Counter Attack
- 6323 matches were IS vs Clans

Here is where it gets real interesting.

- Clans won 3330 of those matches, which equates to a ~53% win rate."



Seems pretty balanced for me. Main problem right now is not mech balancing but the population bias. (perhaps was? Hadn't had a chance to play since the patch yesterday. Have they adressed it?)

When it comes down to mech designs, there are surely some tweaks and shifts to be made, to make some other chassis more viable. But it seems clear for me that neither side is op or has an unfair advantage. I know, laser-vomit Stalkers suck. But as with all mechs designs right now, there are lots of tactics to counter their impact. Don't play in their comfort-zone. Know your foe and adapt your tactics. Have you tried to force them in to a brawl with equal numbers. They run pretty hot too (at least the 6 LL builds) and have a meager torso twist capability. Additionally they are not really known for their "nimble" movement.

Eddison Trend, on 21 April 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

Thats not what i said. I just said that if you make such a sort range build like that , in a timber in order to close the distance with a thunder and beat it in a "duel" , you will be so exposed that you wont last a sec in the open , when their team mates come to support him .Now , considering the fact that IS formations are consisted of assaults plus heavies , and they always stick together , then yeah...you get the picture.

Sticking together, focussing fire, helping your team mates are basic concepts not only for IS formations. Same situation duelling as IS with a clanner and than his clan mates come to help him? You will have a bad day as IS also.

Serious question: Do your experiences/described situations stem mainly from pug matches?

If so, join a team and the differences between clans and IS will mainly be in play style. Both have advantages and disadvantages in different situations. Just try to bring the strengths of your side to bear.

Eddison Trend, on 21 April 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

As for the balance , if you examine it ton per ton and mech per mech ,yes it looks fine. If you look at it , deck per deck , clans are in huge disadvandage cuz like i said before , they are forced to bring heavies (in most case only just one , a single timber that is ) to deal with assaults , and mediums to deal with everything else (IS heavies , mediums , lights , etc.)
How is this on any way fair or even comparable ?...cuz extra tonnage suggests extra armor and durability ,so yeah once again balance on paper .

Clans will get a bigger choice of chassis for different tonnages in time. Wave 3 is coming. Most likely more waves will follow. So the choice of playable and also viable designs will increase. Additionally they have their strong Xl-engines (higher durability) and are fast and nimble.(well, except the "whales")

Long text short: In my opinion, mech balancing is ok right now. There are adjustments to be made but overall they are on a good way. With the current balance there are lots of tactics to choose from to make it work. Problem with clans getting pushed back is (again: was?) the discrepancy in player numbers.

Edited by Drakaan, 22 April 2015 - 12:19 AM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

This will not solve the Problem.

[Roland09]

PhoenixNMGLB, on 21 April 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

I don't know if it is the mechs or the pilots but clans can't hold against an IS push.

The mentality has become hang back and when they push run away and surrender all the objectives and drop zones.

Indeed, Wave 3 is not going to solve this problem.

No amount of quirking or nerfing ever will, short of installing the "I win" button so many (not all of them, though) Clammers seem to crave.

[Revis Volek]

whats this thread about again?

Oh Clams is op....got it.

[CyclonerM]

This thread has definitely lost its relevance. Cleaning up and closing.

See you all on the battlefield!