347 replies to this topic

[Calisrue]

GIMME A MODERATOR or a DEV to CLOSE THIS THREAD. ITS NOT PAY TO WIN. period PERIOD. . . .

[PewPew]

I have no ethical problem with the system. that's why I bought founders. I'm here to combat the fallacious arguments coming from blind fanaticism associated with waiting more than a decade for a game to come out. if we can't remain objectively critical, the game can't survive on just old fan boys.

if everyone is defining pay to win as a win button, there has not been one that had been released in the pay give years. while minor advantages may not produce a significant advantage, minor advantages are important especially when things get competitive. there is going to be outrage when a corps loses a planet to a bunch of bought mechs. assuming planetary ownership is significant

[Zayhl]

honestly Pew at that point I think the game would truly feel like a real Mechwarrior MMO. seems pretty in universe for the bought up pilots of of some lord to beat up a a bunch of tin can riding mercs.

[Arafinar]

PewPew, on 30 June 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

I have no ethical problem with the system. that's why I bought founders. I'm here to combat the fallacious arguments coming from blind fanaticism associated with waiting more than a decade for a game to come out. if we can't remain objectively critical, the game can't survive on just old fan boys.

if everyone is defining pay to win as a win button, there has not been one that had been released in the pay give years. while minor advantages may not produce a significant advantage, minor advantages are important especially when things get competitive. there is going to be outrage when a corps loses a planet to a bunch of bought mechs. assuming planetary ownership is significant

Objective? um nope not seeing it, only one I see looking fanatical is you atm. I dont see a soul
that disagreeing that its an advantage, a minor one at that and nothing thats gonna change the worlds.
DEVs have said repeatedly that you will be able to buy with cbills everything but the founders mechs.
yes? no?

[Melcyna]

Slightly inaccurate there, P2Win is not strictly a win button

but rather P2Win is the ability to pay and acquire a direct advantage in combat that are otherwise unattainable or highly uneconomical otherwise (thus facilitating that paid method is the only way to acquire it realistically for the majority of ppl).

Various MMO in the past, PARTICULARLY in China are prone to it...

[Zayhl]

I also accept Melcyna's view of the situation as I don't actually differentiate that from a straight up win button.

edited for less stupid words.

Edited by Zayhl, 30 June 2012 - 10:37 PM.

[Arafinar]

Melcyna, on 30 June 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Slightly inaccurate there, P2Win is not strictly a win button

but rather P2Win is the ability to pay and acquire a direct advantage in combat that are otherwise unattainable or highly uneconomical otherwise (thus facilitating that paid method is the only way to acquire it realistically for the majority of ppl).

Various MMO in the past, PARTICULARLY in China are prone to it...

"I WIN BUTTON"euphemism =the expression so substituted To pass away is a euphemism for “to die.”

Edited by Arafinar, 30 June 2012 - 10:38 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

PewPew, on 30 June 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

I have no ethical problem with the system. that's why I bought founders. I'm here to combat the fallacious arguments coming from blind fanaticism associated with waiting more than a decade for a game to come out. if we can't remain objectively critical, the game can't survive on just old fan boys.

if everyone is defining pay to win as a win button, there has not been one that had been released in the pay give years. while minor advantages may not produce a significant advantage, minor advantages are important especially when things get competitive. there is going to be outrage when a corps loses a planet to a bunch of bought mechs. assuming planetary ownership is significant

the raw essence of Pay to Win is exactly what I have bolded and enlarged. Thing is, any advantage, hinted at or real that comes with real life cash is Pay to Win. Period. This is not something that is debatable. What you basically want, based on one of your other posts, the: I want an advantage" part of the post I mention, is asking for pay to win. Get a mech, any mech, that can be bought with C-Bills or MC, and learn the mech. it is that bloody simple. the more in sync you are with your machine, the better you know its sounds, and how you have it loaded, the better you become, and THAT is your advantage. Taking what you know, and using it. Being and becoming one with your machine, THAT is the advantage. Being able to think your way through the battlefield, and adapt as you must. THAT is your advantage. Become the warrior you THINK you have in you. Do not beg or plead to buy the advantage. It makes you look and sound silly.
The warrior who adapts the fastest, who learns the quickest, who uses what he has to its utmost lethality, THAT is the warrior to fear. Not the one who paid his way into his commission.

[Stray Ion]

I don't see it as a "win button". A cbill/xp booster will have greater affects if your on the winning team. I would imagine you would also acquire cbills and XP if you lose as well but I doubt they will be as much.

IMO it will come down to player skills on how successful they are. A person who always wins with out a booster should be better off than a person with a booster who always loses.

What I don't understand is how the game hasn't even launched and all we are doing is speculating.

[Marthe Pryde]

boosts are not pay2win IMO. for me, it means that i can focus on work and stay for a couple more extra hours at work if i need to or attend events with friendies a couple of times a week and not worry about getting left behind in the game econ. I think gaming has evolved from playing more ofent into playing more efficiently. there's no damage boosts or boosts that will append any player skill w/e so it's a (y) for me

Edited by Marthe Pryde, 30 June 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[Arafinar]

Rejarial Galatan, on 30 June 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

the raw essence of Pay to Win is exactly what I have bolded and enlarged. Thing is, any advantage, hinted at or real that comes with real life cash is Pay to Win. Period. This is not something that is debatable. What you basically want, based on one of your other posts, the: I want an advantage" part of the post I mention, is asking for pay to win. Get a mech, any mech, that can be bought with C-Bills or MC, and learn the mech. it is that bloody simple. the more in sync you are with your machine, the better you know its sounds, and how you have it loaded, the better you become, and THAT is your advantage. Taking what you know, and using it. Being and becoming one with your machine, THAT is the advantage. Being able to think your way through the battlefield, and adapt as you must. THAT is your advantage. Become the warrior you THINK you have in you. Do not beg or plead to buy the advantage. It makes you look and sound silly.
The warrior who adapts the fastest, who learns the quickest, who uses what he has to its utmost lethality, THAT is the warrior to fear. Not the one who paid his way into his commission.

OK pew, there ya go you got one, there he is. Now ya got one sayin what ya are on a rampage about.


every single time I say no one in the thread is sayin something sure enough one shows up.......

Next thing ya know hes gonna go on about clan honor.......any bets?

Edited by Arafinar, 30 June 2012 - 10:45 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Arafinar, on 30 June 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

OK pew, there ya go you got one, there he is. Now ya got one sayin what ya are on a rampage about.


every single time I say no one in the thread is sayin something sure enough one shows up.......

wait what? Here I am trying to say: get your bloody advantage by, you know, learning the game, learning your 'mech, learn to adapt. DId I miss something?

[LordDeathStrike]

XenomorphZZ, on 30 June 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/27/froze … s-new-map/

You know, I was just cruising along PCGAMER's newsite when I decided to read the comments in that particular MWO article I linked up there, and then I found a disturbing trend that has been creeping up in other various gaming forums and what not...

That suddenly XP and IGC (ingame currency) boosts are considered "pay2win" ...

keimosabe says:
03:44pm June 28 2012
AWESOME! Cannot wait to get back into my mech and... oh wait, it's "pay to win"
http://mwomercs.com/founders
never mind....

This is the comment chain in question. I find that since most games are correcting past F2P practices of "selling power", people complaining about any and all P2W aspects are shifting their focus on boosts... I find this a rather disturbing trend...

I know that in some game economies IGC boosts might actually be borderline P2W but in MWO in particular... its not like that at all... the IGC boost on the mechs in question is only 25%, comparing that to WoT's premium tanks, its quite smaller (though the two game's economies are somewhat different...)

What do yall think of this?

if you die just as fast, and dont do any more dmg, then a free player in the same mech, even though it took him longer to buy it cause he makes cbills 75% slower then a premium sub with a founders mech (if rumors hold and premium is 50% xp cbill boost, and founders mechs are 25% more bills) then no its not pay to win. everyone can get the same mechs, and get to elite status in them. theres no wot 50 dollar tank that can only be killed by another 50 dollar tank shooting 2 cents each bullets at it.

Melcyna, on 30 June 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Slightly inaccurate there, P2Win is not strictly a win button

but rather P2Win is the ability to pay and acquire a direct advantage in combat that are otherwise unattainable or highly uneconomical otherwise (thus facilitating that paid method is the only way to acquire it realistically for the majority of ppl).

Various MMO in the past, PARTICULARLY in China are prone to it...

the only way this might hit mwo is if like uac20 rounds or streak missiles are ultra expensive and the only way to afford fireing them off is to have full boosted cbill income and be on the winning team heh. hopefully its better balanced then that.

[Melcyna]

Quote

he raw essence of Pay to Win is exactly what I have bolded and enlarged. Thing is, any advantage, hinted at or real that comes with real life cash is Pay to Win. Period.

So by that definition of yours, even a cosmetic option is an advantage no? a visual option otherwise unattainable, sounds like an advantage alright.

That little tag you have on your forum ID, sounds like an advantage to me... since i don't have it.

See where this is going?

We can't apply a broad slap of 'advantage' else we'd have to start considering the fact that i may own a superior high precision mouse with adjustable DPI on the fly as an advantage too compared to others with regular generic mouse... and since i paid for that mouse, then technically it's P2Win too by that definition.

Edited by Melcyna, 30 June 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[PewPew]

dude, I'm not going to defend every definition that people come up with. what I'm saying has little to do with semantics. my argument is that it's a significant advantage that may have an impact on the long term player base.

arafinar, I'm largely ignoring you because it's become to personal between us. i apologize for bringing it there by taking a jab at you, but nonetheless.

there are few free to play models that have been truly successful for long periods of time. considering most of us have waited the full decade for this game, we should be thinking about the long term rather than believing there will be enough people who are as passionate as we are to support the game

[Rejarial Galatan]

sounds a bit like panic/fear/doom mongering when we go all broad strokes to include everything. external gear in my book has NEVER been pay to win, since, well, its external to the game. Pay to Win, to me, has only included in game stuff. Weapons, Armor, skills, spells, etc etc. just my own view.

[Stray Ion]

Melcyna, on 30 June 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

So by that definition of yours, even a cosmetic option is an advantage no? a visual option otherwise unattainable, sounds like an advantage alright.

That little tag you have on your forum ID, sounds like an advantage to me... since i don't have it.

See where this is going?

We can't apply a broad slap of 'advantage' else we'd have to start considering the fact that i may own a superior high precision mouse with adjustable DPI on the fly as an advantage too compared to others with regular generic mouse... and since i paid for that mouse, then technically it's P2Win too by that definition.

You're correct, but compared to a joystick you may have to pick up your mouse to track a target while torso twisting.

Edited by Stray Ion, 30 June 2012 - 10:58 PM.

[Savageson]

Arafinar, on 30 June 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Next thing ya know hes gonna go on about clan honor.......any bets?

The wolf is on the hunt free birth scum!

[Rejarial Galatan]

PewPew, I think, I should add this. Paraphrasing the Developers here, BUT, they said: You CANNOT BUY TACTICAL ADVANTAGE. PILOT SKILL IS WHAT MATTERS MOST.

[Arafinar]

Savageson, on 30 June 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

The wolf is on the hunt free birth scum!

heh I quit RPin this game after MW3 and btw was CW there