376 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Tennex, on 11 June 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

What did these mechs do to deserve PGI's scale roulette

Well...

Somewhere in Vancouver said:

AnonPGI *switches channel*
*watches CB*
AnonPGI: awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww right
AnonPGI *switches channel*
*watches Stalker*
AnonPGI: yeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa baby
*watches Nova*
AnonPGI /vomits
AnonPGI *switches channel*
*watches Awesome*
AnonPGI /facepalms
AnonPGI *turns off Mechchatroulette*

[Tennex]

PGI Pls

[Bishop Steiner]

Tennex, on 14 March 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

/Begin Chickenwalker Animation Rant:

As seen above Chicken Walkers NEVER heel - toe
unlike humans, chicken walkers land each step with the toes rather than the ball of the foot


Which is something PGI clearly understands if you look at the current raven animation (and locust)


Here is a frame from the adder gif. Showing the flat feet; notice the heel-toeing


Heres what it would look like if they had just animated the feet and ankles:

Just a quick point... Chicken walkers never heel-toe walk for 2 reasons:
1) Because their "knee" is actually their ankle, and the "tibia" is the long bones of the foot. and
2) Because there are no chicken walkers in nature

Not that ostric, not chickens.


"chicken walker" mechs are simply reverse plantigrade, whereas chickens, ostriches, the Thanatos and Nova Cat, are digitigrades.

So.... while I appreciate the aesthetics of what you are saying, the "mechanics" of what you speak don't really exist.

[Tennex]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 July 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

Just a quick point... Chicken walkers never heel-toe walk for 2 reasons:
1) Because their "knee" is actually their ankle, and the "tibia" is the long bones of the foot. and
2) Because there are no chicken walkers in nature

Not that ostric, not chickens.


"chicken walker" mechs are simply reverse plantigrade, whereas chickens, ostriches, the Thanatos and Nova Cat, are digitigrades.

So.... while I appreciate the aesthetics of what you are saying, the "mechanics" of what you speak don't really exist.

This topic has been gone over many times. These mechs are chicken walkers. And we can sit here and talk about imaginary bones or terminology all day. I believe the picture provided below is a very good example of why these are Digitigrades.

Chicken mechs are Digitigrades.

Edited by Tennex, 11 July 2015 - 11:38 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tennex, on 10 July 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

This topic has been gone over many times. These mechs are chicken walkers. And we can sit here and talk about imaginary bones or terminology all day. I believe the picture provided below is a very good example of why these are Digitigrades


Or you could just scroll back a few pages so we dont have to go through this again

Yet for all the times it's been gone over, the same myths and misunderstandings persist. A Chicken Walker, as seen in MWO, the ED-209, AT-ST, would be a slow, clumsy gait, and actually, yes, need to be centered on the flat of a foot, or equivalent.

The other option, would require it to move at speed, and lean far forward, to achieve some sort of facsimile of the ostrich you want to show. But using a digitigrade to demonstrate how a reverse plantigrade "should" walk...is a little ....mmmm. Less than ideal.

If we're going to rant about it. Mind you, it looks prettier the way you describe, but it's a butt poor mode of locomotion, regardless.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

the SMN arm 45 degree angle isnt the only one **** thing,that annoys me.
Look at legs, they are "(" ")" more then they should be "I" "I" . Its absolutely UGLY. when you run SMN, its like Richard Gasquet runnin. UGLY.
I mean look at MW2 intro, how should SMN have his legs and moves. HEAVY, and "I". disgusting PGI.

[Xetelian]

I don't think I'll be spending money again on this game but it has nothing to do with this thread.

[oldradagast]

On the plus side, they are decreasing the quality of the original mechs with slap-dash dynamic weapon geometry. Just look at the trainwreck that is now the Awesome, where the missiles ports are scattered like a skin disease, and you see what I mean.

So, eventually we won't be able to notice the quality difference between older mechs and newer ones.

[Tennex]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 July 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

The other option, would require it to move at speed, and lean far forward, to achieve some sort of facsimile of the ostrich you want to show. But using a digitigrade to demonstrate how a reverse plantigrade "should" walk...is a little ....mmmm. Less than ideal.

If you are going to make criticism at least know the subject matter.

1. Plantigrades walk with the tarsal(yellow) bone on the ground. Since we are humans, and are plantigrades we call that our heels.
2. Digitigrades walk with their tarsal bone elevated. Since they literally don't have heels, we call them "toe walkers"
3. Chickens are digitigrades. A chicken is a "chicken walker" Chickens have the femor held close to the body as do all chicken walkers.
4. What you are seeing on our mechs, is not a "reverse knee" It is an ankle. Because the actual knee is inside the body like with all birds.

As you can see in the picture above, the mech has multiple toes like the chicken skeleton above. But the hind toe should not be mistaken for a tarsal bone.

Edited by Tennex, 11 July 2015 - 07:42 AM.

[stjobe]

Tennex, on 11 July 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

If you are going to make criticism at least know the subject matter.

1. Plantigrades walk with the tarsal(yellow) bone on the ground. Since we are humans, and are plantigrades we call that our heels.
2. Digitigrades walk with their tarsal bone elevated. Since they literally don't have heels, we call them "toe walkers"
3. Chickens are plantigrades. A chicken is a "chicken walker" Chickens have the femor held close to the body as do all chicken walkers.
4. What you are seeing on our mechs, is not a "reverse knee" It is an ankle. Because the actual knee is inside the body like with all birds.

As you can see in the picture above, the mech has multiple toes like the chicken skeleton above. But the hind toe should not be mistaken for a tarsal bone.

Are you saying that "hip joint" is a knee joint?

Because what it looks like to me is that you've invented a femur out of thin cloth that just isn't there on the 'mech model. It's pretty obvious that the joint attaching the leg to the pelvis is a hip joint, not a knee joint:



That's a reverse-knee "chicken walker", a leg design not found in nature.

Also, birds are digitigrades, not plantigrades.

[Tennex]

stjobe, on 11 July 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Also, birds are digitigrades, not plantigrades.

Oops typo.


The "Knee Joint" Is not present in birds either. Because it is internalized. As our mechs are trying to simulate.

Edited by Tennex, 11 July 2015 - 07:43 AM.

[Tennex]

stjobe, on 11 July 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

That's a reverse-knee "chicken walker", a leg design not found in nature.

lmfao i see.. you guys are trying to use that wiki page as fact. Someone probably had no idea what the science behind this stuff is, googled "chicken walker" and got that wiki page

Its a fictional page.

Edited by Tennex, 11 July 2015 - 11:39 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

What the hell do animal legs have anything to do with MWO?
Who cares if the leg movement is accurate to the way animals move?

As long as it LOOKS GOOD, i couldn't care less how much like a chicken it walks...

[Necromantion]

I support the OP wholeheartedly.

[stjobe]

Tennex, on 11 July 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

The "Knee Joint" Is not present in birds either. Because it is internalized. As our mechs are trying to simulate.

Most birds have regular knee joints like other animals, and they all point forwards.

Tennex, on 11 July 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

lmfao i see.. you guys are trying to use that wiki page as fact. Someone probably had no idea what the science behind this stuff is, googled "chicken walker" and got that wiki page

That page is literally written by people like you. Its a fictional page.

Would you accept this wikipedia page then? Because that also says pretty much the opposite of what you're claiming.

Birds have knees, some of them don't have kneecaps, but all of them have knee joints. And they all point forwards.

Looking at any of our chicken walker 'mechs, it's pretty obvious that the joint joining the leg to the pelvis is a hip joint, which would mean that they have reverse knee joints - and as I said, that's not a thing found in nature.

Edited by stjobe, 11 July 2015 - 08:11 AM.

[Tennex]

stjobe, on 11 July 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

Most birds have regular knee joints like other animals, and they all point forwards.


Would you accept this wikipedia page then? Because that also says pretty much the opposite of what you're claiming.

Birds have knees, some of them don't have kneecaps, but all of them have knee joints. And they all point forwards.

Looking at any of our chicken walker 'mechs, it's pretty obvious that the joint joining the leg to the pelvis is a hip joint, which would mean that they have reverse knee joints - and as I said, that's not a thing found in nature.

Lol WTF is a reverse knee joint? That isn't a thing. Like what is your argument? That, because this isn't a thing, it shouldn't walk to look like a thing? Or that it should walk instead like a person walks backwards(Reverse plantigrade)? Because that would look ********, like it does when mechs heel-toe. You can be the model to walk backwards with your knees bent. PGI will capture your movement, import it to the game and call it a day. GG



I'll use your terminology. Chicken walkers simulate chickens. Which is why they are called chicken walkers. Hence lies the problem with calling those reverse knees. Because the things they were designed to simulate is not the knee. But rather the chicken's ankle. (there is no such a thing as a reverse knee, knees all point forward)

But lets not get distracted. The crux of this argument is that "chicken" walkers, should walk like chickens.



Lol i realize i'm getting trolled.

Tennex, on 11 July 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

The "Knee Joint" Is not present in birds either. Because it is internalized. As our mechs are trying to simulate.

stjobe, on 11 July 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

Most birds have regular knee joints like other animals, and they all point forwards.

Tennex, on 11 July 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

Edited by Tennex, 11 July 2015 - 09:27 AM.

[stjobe]

My argument is that "chicken walkers" don't actually walk like chicken - the name is a misnomer.

Chicken walkers have reversed knee joints (which simply means the knee is pointing backwards), actual chicken don't. I can't think of any animal off the top of my head that does.

The "femur" in your picture of the Mad Cat doesn't exist; there's a hip joint joining the leg to the pelvis in that place, and the next joint down on the leg is then the knee - not the ankle. What you have labelled the Tibia/Fibula is what would be the femur on an animal, i.e. the bone with a hip joint in one end and a knee joint at the other.

Either way, it does seem like we're in agreement on one thing; chicken walkers are cool and should walk the way they do regardless of whether they have an animal analogue or not.

And they don't

[Sarlic]

This thread. Mind is blown.

[Tennex]

stjobe, on 11 July 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

My argument is that "chicken walkers" don't actually walk like chicken - the name is a misnomer.

Chicken walkers have reversed knee joints (which simply means the knee is pointing backwards), actual chicken don't. I can't think of any animal off the top of my head that does.

The "femur" in your picture of the Mad Cat doesn't exist; there's a hip joint joining the leg to the pelvis in that place, and the next joint down on the leg is then the knee - not the ankle. What you have labelled the Tibia/Fibula is what would be the femur on an animal, i.e. the bone with a hip joint in one end and a knee joint at the other.

Either way, it does seem like we're in agreement on one thing; chicken walkers are cool and should walk the way they do regardless of whether they have an animal analogue or not.

And they don't

Well, since they have reverse knees, and you want them to walk like that then i have no idea why they call them chicken walkers.

I guess we'll just call them "backwards people walking forwards walkers"

My point is that, the mechanisms of the "Chicken walker" Is designed to walk like a chicken and is named after the chicken. So the anatomy can be deduced to emulate that of the chicken. Meaning that its not a "reverse knee" It is a ankle.

Edited by Tennex, 11 July 2015 - 09:45 AM.

[stjobe]

Tennex, on 11 July 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

Well, since they have reverse knees, and you want them to walk like that then i have no idea why they call them chicken walkers.

I guess we'll just call them "backwards people walking forwards walkers"

No, the name is fine. We just need to keep in mind that they're not actually walking like chicken - it just looks like that to the untrained eye (probably someone who has never seen a live chicken, or prepared one for a meal).

Tennex, on 11 July 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

My point is that, the mechanisms of the "Chicken walker" Is designed to walk like a chicken. So the anatomy can be deduced to emulate that of the chicken. Meaning that its not a "reverse knee" It is a ankle.

And my point is that despite the name, chicken walkers are not "designed to walk like a chicken"; they walk in their own, unique, no-counterpart-in-nature way, which looks kind of close to how chicken walk - hence the name.