376 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Burktross, on 14 March 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

Very eye-opening post.
+pgi should look at this

Considering their lightning fast reaction to players objecting to the new Catapult geometry? They will probably acknowledge some of these issues in 2016 and begin fixing some of them in 2017.

Of course, I'm a bit hypocritical because I really want PVE, Solaris and 4v4. But PGI won't be able to afford to get all those things done unless they can keep selling mechs. And they won't be able to keep selling mech packs if they fix the long-ass list of things that are broken in existing mechs.

It's quite possible they're aware of many of these issues, but made a conscious decision because they only have x amount of time for each mech in order to keep the game profitable. Who knows.

[stjobe]

Juodas Varnas, on 14 March 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Oh...
Not worth it. Definitely not worth it, especially because the game probably still runs like **** on low spec machines.

Yeah, we know. But back in the day PGI/IGP was still under the delusion that MWO was going to be the next big e-sport (yeah, I know. I want what they were smoking too), so they probably thought performance on low-spec machines was more important than good looks - so now we have neither.

[km1710]

Escef, on 14 March 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

To the best of knowledge, Smith & Tinker never produced anything MW related other than the old MW5 trailer that was made to drum up interest. If they sold any MW work they had done on speculation to PGI than this would be the first I have heard of it.

I remember having read something like that in the past but then I guess it's mere speculation at this point. Maybe some founder could have some hints. I thought that because it is really weird that a full company which implemented complex features like destructable terrain and legs IK, would not accordingly plan a developent phase aimed at optimization, but just "surrender" and sacrifice them. During the SW design process you usually stick to everything you added instead on returning back, that's why you plan the optimization process that will follow.

[Tennex]

Alistair Winter, on 14 March 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

Considering their lightning fast reaction to players objecting to the new Catapult geometry? They will probably acknowledge some of these issues in 2016 and begin fixing some of them in 2017.

Of course, I'm a bit hypocritical because I really want PVE, Solaris and 4v4. But PGI won't be able to afford to get all those things done unless they can keep selling mechs. And they won't be able to keep selling mech packs if they fix the long-ass list of things that are broken in existing mechs.

It's quite possible they're aware of many of these issues, but made a conscious decision because they only have x amount of time for each mech in order to keep the game profitable. Who knows.

The problems just keep piling up

[Xetelian]

Yeah I see what you're saying. Lot less polish and mechs are still way too big.

[Malleus011]

They've been rushing 'mechs more than usual lately.

And the geometry passes they've been giving the older 'mechs are almost always downgrades.

I'm thinking they're going to have a harder and harder time with income as the game moves forward. Most of the 'iconic' Battlemechs are released or on the way. A year from now, what can they put in a pack that will motivate a 3050-era centric player? A 3025-era player?

I think the only big income spike of 'mech releases they might have left are the remaining Unseen, and that's probably impossible.

Pity they can't or won't do better quality releases, or address the long list of missing or broken bits - King Crab skins, Catapult ears ... the list goes on, and on, and on, and on ...

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

stjobe, on 14 March 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

Yeah, we know. But back in the day PGI/IGP was still under the delusion that MWO was going to be the next big e-sport (yeah, I know. I want what they were smoking too), so they probably thought performance on low-spec machines was more important than good looks - so now we have neither.

There's also the fact this game has a noticeably older generation of gamers. When I frequented the Steiner hub back in CB, literally half the players were running 4 year old machines in 2012. Some of those guys are STILL running those same machines in 2015 puttering along at 10-20 FPS on all low with 8bit resolution. But a lot of those guys have dropped literal hundreds to thousands on this game and still not upgraded their computers.

I can look at the threads with people's specs here and the boxes that most of the guys that play MWO according to the forums are running 3 to 7 year old computers. If I go to the WoT or Warframe or War Thunder threads with players PC specs they're around the 2 year mark.

They're catering to the "I'll throw thousands at your game, but I refuse to spend a dime upgrading my computer" crowd.

[Kiiyor]

kapusta11, on 14 March 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

What?! It's that huge?

It's torso hitboxes seem much smaller than the 'Phract though.

Height isn't everything. Torso surface area counts for a lot. Look at the Awesome - it has close to the highest and widest torsos in the game, and itty bitty legs.

[L3mming2]

Vassago Rain, on 14 March 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

The catapult needs to lose a lot of weight, or the 35 ton heavier king crab is too small. Pick one.

i think volume is inportant too, the crab is not that high but if you see it from the side/ behind you get e prety good idea where the mass may have gone..

[xhrit]

Tennex, on 14 March 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

IK adjusts the ankles, knees, and hips in this game, not the toes

Bones inherit their parent's rotational values; thus, if you adjust the ankles, the toes are adjusted as well.

[Vassago Rain]

stjobe, on 14 March 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

Yep. To improve performance, specifically on low-spec machines, was the stated reason.

Muh precious russian windows XP machines on dual cores, with 4 gigs of DDR2 RAM.

km1710, on 14 March 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

I remember having read something like that in the past but then I guess it's mere speculation at this point. Maybe some founder could have some hints. I thought that because it is really weird that a full company which implemented complex features like destructable terrain and legs IK, would not accordingly plan a developent phase aimed at optimization, but just "surrender" and sacrifice them. During the SW design process you usually stick to everything you added instead on returning back, that's why you plan the optimization process that will follow.

We'll likely never know who made what, what PGI created, what was contracted, and who came up with which parts.

It's part of the great MWO mysteries.

What cannot be denied by anyone is the decline since late 2012.

[aniviron]

Tennex, on 14 March 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

IK adjusts the ankles, knees, and hips in this game, not the toes

Not anymore it doesn't. :[ IK is desperately needed in this game, it just looks so awful without it; but at this point there would be such a huge backlog of mechs to rig for it I doubt it'll ever be reimplemented.

WM Quicksilver, on 14 March 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

The Mist Lynx only dreams it could have so small of weapons like that left arm. Alas, it is probably going to be the only Clan light with monkey arms.

Didn't you hear in the Yen Lo Wang thread that the art team has decided all weapons must be equally sized? It's just a trick of the light, the Kitfox's arm weapons are totally the same size as the Mist Lynx's.

[Tennex]

xhrit, on 14 March 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

Bones inherit their parent's rotational values; thus, if you adjust the ankles, the toes are adjusted as well.

And the sky is blue, but that won't do anything to animate the adder and kit foxes toes.

IK won't animate a mech's toes anymore than gravity will flex your ankles. No need for these mechs to have drop foot

Edited by Tennex, 14 March 2015 - 03:22 PM.

[Escef]

Vassago Rain, on 14 March 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

What cannot be denied by anyone is the decline since late 2012.

You declared this game dead about a year and a half ago. Forgive me if I fail to take your evaluation as spot on, given your track record.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Alistair Winter, on 14 March 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

Considering their lightning fast reaction to players objecting to the new Catapult geometry? They will probably acknowledge some of these issues in 2016 and begin fixing some of them in 2017.

Of course, I'm a bit hypocritical because I really want PVE, Solaris and 4v4. But PGI won't be able to afford to get all those things done unless they can keep selling mechs. And they won't be able to keep selling mech packs if they fix the long-ass list of things that are broken in existing mechs.

It's quite possible they're aware of many of these issues, but made a conscious decision because they only have x amount of time for each mech in order to keep the game profitable. Who knows.

They cant keep selling mechs unless they drum up new business and they dont drum up new business by simply giving us new mechs.

Give us PVE, 4v4, buff the economy, fix performance, give more depth and point to gameplay, they will get their money and we will get increased playerbase. RUnning status quo and thinking people will just come in and stay is wrong.....

[Vassago Rain]

Tennex, on 14 March 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

And the sky is blue, but that won't do anything to animate the adder and kit foxes toes.

IK won't animate a mech's toes anymore than gravity will flex your ankles. No need for these mechs to have drop foot

Where were we a year and a half ago?

[Artgathan]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 March 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

so it appears the Hopper is by all likelihood going to be physically bigger than the Zeus?

Wonderful.

Surprised there isn't more uproar over this. The Grasshopper will literally stand head and shoulders above the Zeus, despite being 10 tons lighter.

[Tennex]

stjobe, on 14 March 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

Yeah, we know. But back in the day PGI/IGP was still under the delusion that MWO was going to be the next big e-sport (yeah, I know. I want what they were smoking too)

Its even more ridiculous if you remember that at that time there was no way to make a private game.

[Impyrium]

So there's pretty much three points here. Translation between 2D concept and 3D model, quality of animation and model size.

Personally I think people are a little hard on the modellers. I don't think it's really possible to get an absolutely perfect representation of a 2D concept into a 3D model, especially if they're working from the perspective art rather than front and side diagrams. While Alex's concept art is great and looks great, our minds tend to 'repair' elements of a drawing that don't quite make sense in a physical or 3D sense. So things will always look a little different. Sure, there's some major differences to come out of them, like the Enforcer's cockpit, but I think people underestimate the difficulty in modelling something like that.

Animations are a sticking point though. Especially with Wave I, the animations are obviously rushed and just plain sad. The only animation I don't mind is the Stormcrow and Nova, and even then they look a bit stiff. An animation pass is definitely needed, but specifically on that lot. I don't mind the Wave II and Resistance 'Mechs so far.

Height is often put in place of overall size and I think that's a mistake. While there's certainly some problem cases (glares at Quickdraw) I think the Grasshopper... kinda makes sense, given its slim profile. It is pretty tall though, so I suppose we'll see when it drops.

Ultimately I don't think it's a matter of 'Mechs getting worse the further from release we get. The Panther, for example, is a gorgeous 'Mech and I love its animation. Enforcer is... kinda lego looking but the animation gets the job done. It's just a matter of PGI toning down releases and making time to go back over the old releases.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Artgathan, on 14 March 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Surprised there isn't more uproar over this. The Grasshopper will literally stand head and shoulders above the Zeus, despite being 10 tons lighter.

There will once it gets released on Tuesday and people see it for themselves. It is funny that the mech that seemed the most sought after from this pack is the only one that suffers a scale problem. The Panther, Enforcer, and especially the Zeus all seem to be sized really good.