625 replies to this topic

[Chef Kerensky]

Can I ask why the A1, the most boring of all the catapults, the one that can literally only equip LRMs unless you go full splatcat (which is fun but no longer viable) is receiving better quirks than the ones that actually have energy/ballistic hardpoints? Like the K2 for example, which in addition to being the funnest variant to play also boasts fantastic hardpoint placement and could actually add to and shift the meta if it had energy/ppc heat gen quirks?

Why do I get the feeling that competitive builds like the 4N and former TBT-9S were just accidents and that PGI gave the 9S PPC quirks expecting people to mount a single one on the arm hardpoint? Why do I get the feeling nobody on the team ever expected clanners to swap out omnipods so they could equip a gauss rifle and five ER medium lasers?

[Tuann]

Russ Bullock, on 16 March 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

Remember the Clan omnipod amounts are low because players can stack with other pods

the stacking might be a good idea, but the basic figures, and therefor the final result are underwhelming.

missed chance there,..

[Stingersun]

since we are getting all these nice missile quirks and clans are now going to have an ECM heavy and a ECM medium (which thanks to omni they can build out just about how they want) when is the inner sphere getting a ECM heavy and Medium? (cicada is not a medium. its an overweight light).

[InspectorG]

Mcgral18, on 16 March 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

Brah, 4% more MG range!

Less overheat damage?


Well, the Pay-For Suckonner arm has 5% less heat, which is arguably the third best quirk on this list.

Structure will be handy.

Better email GMan129 and tell him to slap that new and enhanced Summoner up to tier #1

Sell your Timbys for the Summoners !!! Like the second coming of the Thunderbolts!!!

MG and ERPPC, gonna reshape CW !!!! IS has no chance to survive make your time !

[Corbenik]

Looks at the list of everyone in this thread wow thats alot of orange ;x

[Heffay]

Wingbreaker, on 16 March 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

They're not alright. At all. Let's look at the summoner. Why does no one use one? Because the summoner is outclassed by every other clan heavy. Each is a master of its own specialty, and the summoner can basically try to do any of these, but cannot do them well. The problem lies within the fact that it can't do any of these even as well as the other mechs can, so why would I bring one? Yes, it makes it marginally better than it was, but that margin is so tiny that the gap between the mechs is still a massive gulf.

The nerfs for the 3 big Clan mechs are coming. This is just a point in time. It's not the end state of the game.

The durability increase on the clan quirks can't be ignored either. They are doing what they can to increase TTK through the quirks, which is really the right answer. Giving significant DPS increases to more clan mechs is a mistake.

[InspectorG]

WintermuteOmega, on 16 March 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

No Nova love quirks make me sad though.

Some things cannot be saved...i guess.

[Wingbreaker]

Let's look at the Adder. What was wrong with the adder?

First, it's a light that plays as a medium. It can carry an impressive loadout, but it is too slow for its armor values. It is also very hot when playing with the only loadouts that make it something worth bringing.

So you've got two options to really bring it up to spec and make me, as a player, want to use it: You can make it more powerful by giving it weapons heat quirks, or you can make it quicker.

Instead of doing either of these, the mech gets velocity/cooldown to make it effectively hotter since it takes less time between its pokes to put fire down range. It actually tends to make the mech worse rather than better because it means only an experienced pilot is going to measure their heat capacity and know when to keep firing.

Sure, for those of us that already know how to use an Adder, that's great, but for the stated purpose of seeing their usage more often on the field, it's completely against the grain.

So now as soon as you see the Arctic Cheetah, you will never see ANY OTHER CLAN LIGHT. EVER.

Instead of giving these clan lights a minimal speed increase (say to 120), now you've relegated them to experienced pilots only, and for a very limited amount of time until they disappear entirely.

Best ideas.

[YaKillinMeSmalls]

So the community spends months complaining about the huge swings created by overdoing quirks, asking instead for a gradual approach to allow for adjustments. Then we get it. And now everyone is whining about getting what we asked for.

[Ripper X]

Should have started out with larger quirk bonuses to make those clan mechs more appealing so they would be played more. Then downsize them for balance after you get more data.

[Wingbreaker]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 16 March 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

So the community spends months complaining about the huge swings created by overdoing quirks, asking instead for a gradual approach to allow for adjustments. Then we get it. And now everyone is whining about getting what we asked for.

Rather, these are simply bad because whoever made them had no idea what they were doing in these mechs.

[Kain Demos]

I thought NGNG was just PGI's PR wing? Can not believe my eyes right now.

Edited by Kain Thul, 16 March 2015 - 02:12 PM.

[Wingbreaker]

Heffay, on 16 March 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

The nerfs for the 3 big Clan mechs are coming. This is just a point in time. It's not the end state of the game.

The durability increase on the clan quirks can't be ignored either. They are doing what they can to increase TTK through the quirks, which is really the right answer. Giving significant DPS increases to more clan mechs is a mistake.

Nerfs are not going to help. The clan mechs are the way they are because of disparity in the weapons systems. I'm never going to touch anything besides lasers and maybe a splat or two if I really need a brawler because the other options are so DOT heavy I feel like I'm fighting onyxia.

[Apnu]

Does PGI hate the Trebuchet? The TBT-5N gets another nerf, its a mystery as to why, I never see them out and about. And the Loupe continues to be energy centric in its quirks, though it only has two energy hard points.

TBT-5N (1st pass)
LRM/15 Cooldown +10%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +10%
LRM/15 Heat Generation -10%
Missile Weapon Heat Generation -10%
Energy Weapon Heat Generation -12.5%
Energy Weapon Range +12.5%
Torso Yaw Speed +25%

TBT-5N (2nd pass)
Additional Structure (RA&LA) +8
Missile Cooldown +12.5%
Missile Heat Generation -12.5%
Energy Heat Generation -12.5%
Energy Range +12.5%
Laser Duration -12.5%
Energy Cooldown +12.5%
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +25%

TBT-5N (3rd pass, March 17 2015)
Additional Structure (RA&LA) +8
Additional Structure (RT&LT) +6
Additional Structure (RL&LL) +6
Missile Cooldown +10%
Missile Heat Gen -5%
Missile Velocity +10%
LRM Spread -5%
SRM Spread -5%
Energy Heat Gen -12.5%
Energy Range +12.5%
Laser Duration -12.5%
Energy Cooldown +12.5%
Turn Rate +10%
Torso yaw rate +25%



TBT-LG - Loup De Guerre (1st pass)
SRM/4 Cooldown +7.5%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +7.5%
SRM/4 Range +7.5%
Missile Weapon Range +7.5%
Energy Weapon Heat Generation -10%
Torso Yaw Speed +25%

TBT-LG - Loup De Guerre (2nd pass)
Additional Structure (RA&LA) +8
Missile Cooldown +10%
Missile Range +10%
Medium Pulse Laser Range +7.5%
Energy Range +7.5%
Energy Heat Generation -10%
Energy Cooldown +10%
Torso Turn Rate (Yaw) +25%

TBT-LG - Loup De Guerre (3rd pass, March 17 2015)
Additional Structure (RA&LA) +8
Additional Armor (RA&LA) +8
Additional Structure (RT&LT) +6
Additional Structure (RL&LL) +6
Missile Cooldown +10%
Missile Range +10%
Medium Pulse Range +7.5%
Energy Range +7.5%
Energy Heat Gen -10%
Energy Cooldown +10%
Torso yaw rate +25%

Edited by Apnu, 16 March 2015 - 02:29 PM.

[Lunaya]

Tina Benoit, on 16 March 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Hey MechWarriors!

You might notice a change to the quirk design process starting with this patch. We are going to be switching to a more iterative quirk design process for the near future. As such, these quirk changes in general are not as large as some of those that were previously added. We will evaluate the performance of these quirks and make further adjustments in the future as warranted based on the results.

The quirks are small because PGI is taking a different approach, first people complain they are over quirking and now you complain they are under quirking but above they stated exactly what they are doing. They are doing a little at a time to get it just right. I think they are fine as is, sure they are low but maybe it is all the mech will need, know knows? If not next pass which will hopefully be soon they will get better and better until they are worth piloting.

[BARBAR0SSA]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 16 March 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

So the community spends months complaining about the huge swings created by overdoing quirks, asking instead for a gradual approach to allow for adjustments. Then we get it. And now everyone is whining about getting what we asked for.

Pasternak, on 16 March 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

The quirks are small because PGI is taking a different approach, first people complain they are over quirking and now you complain they are under quirking but above they stated exactly what they are doing. They are doing a little at a time to get it just right. I think they are fine as is, sure they are low but maybe it is all the mech will need, know knows? If not next pass which will hopefully be soon they will get better and better until they are worth piloting.

Not one person in here said "WHERE'S THE %50 ERPPC heat reduction!"

Most people were expecting an arm that gave erPPC heat or cooldown quirk, so you could have 1 erPPC that wouldn't overheat you and you could fire off for a lower damage number that required you to aim at that specific part of a mech, reduced PPFLD as well. If you brought another erppc in a different location well then you're paying with it for 15 heat per shot and it's not a wise choice.


or you know starting off REALLY simple like making it light mech speed with zero weapon quirks. Imagine that, an oversized easy to hit but fast light mech running around, with no hit box issues.

Starting with the simplest non weapon altering point would have made sense.

Clans don't have a light mech that goes over 125kph :|

Edited by shad0w4life, 16 March 2015 - 02:18 PM.

[aniviron]

It's also not just the quirk magnitude; even if the Ice Ferret had gotten -50% overheat damage, it still would be a terrible quirk. At 45 tons, when you overheat you have so little structure you're risking instant death anyway, and the IFR isn't a mech that tends to want to overheat, as it fills more of a hit and run role (to the degree that it fills any role at all). Same thing with the Summoner's +5% MG range, the Adder's ER PPC cooldowns, etc. They're bad quirks, they don't help, and the magnitude be damned.

Edited by aniviron, 16 March 2015 - 02:55 PM.

[Shalune]

Big fan of this stuff. I especially like that you're experimenting with pushing quirks to do more. I think there's some places it doesn't go far enough, but I also don't think buffing quirks to TDR levels is the solution for most mechs (TDR was trash before though, so here's to that.)

Individual thoughts/feedback:

- I'm surprised to see the Ice Ferret on here ahead of the Nova and Mist Lynx. Mist Lynx is only tentatively useful for ECM + JJ + small size utility other clans lack... until Arctic Cheetah hits and obsoletes it. It's already a below average mech. Nova's not bad, but I actually feel Ice Ferret is already above average, just no one seems to play the strong builds for it (see: half a TBR flashlight going 50% faster). But I'll take this as a new personal favorite mech if you insist.

- Huge fan of the mobility quirks for Summoner and Gargoyle. I don't have them, but really want to try these now.

- HGN quirks don't strike me as nearly enough to make it good, but the underlying problem is JJ which I believe needs addressing regardless.

EDIT PS: feels like most people vastly underestimate the importance of accel/decel. I'll see how these pan out, but I'm hopeful those alone will make a huge change for skilled pilots.

Edited by Shalune, 16 March 2015 - 02:22 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Heffay, on 16 March 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

The nerfs for the 3 big Clan mechs are coming. This is just a point in time. It's not the end state of the game.

If that happens I hope thousands of players leave this game.

[Chef Kerensky]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 16 March 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

So the community spends months complaining about the huge swings created by overdoing quirks, asking instead for a gradual approach to allow for adjustments. Then we get it. And now everyone is whining about getting what we asked for.

You know who complained about quirks going too far? Pugs, people who don't understand the meta.

Know who has a problem with how bad these quirk passes are and how awful the resistance pack is? People who do.