625 replies to this topic

[Angels Bane]

what id like is a notification of when you are done tweaking quirks for each individual chassis. getting kinda annoying to buy and level 3 mechs in order to master the one with the quirks you want, just to have pgi change the quirks to a totally different weapon a month later.

[Gauvan]

I think the presentation of the quirk changes (formatting and highlighting the changes quirks) was well done. My only feedback is that it would be nice to include the old values for easy comparison. I'm not sure how best to do that without making the whole thing too busy--maybe list the deletions parenthetically beneath the currently active quirks.

On the quirks themselves--I think quirking the Clans in small increments is a smart move.

[Angry Kylo Ren]

CHH Badkarma, on 17 March 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

Ditch the quirks pgi. Its a mess on both sides that just keeps getting worse. Remember the old saying, "keep it simple" ? Go with drop numbers adjustments or you will be spinning your wheels with quirks for the rest of this games life. I myself would rather see the resouces being used to make up and adjust quirks be used on something else.

Come on pgi, 8v12 or 10v12. Its not that hard to do. I would say 10v16 but I dont know if they can swing that

Agree x10000000000000000000000000000000000 quirks is a terrible mechanic and is a crutch to let them pump out a billion tiny little band-aid solutions, rather than a real solution.

[Dagorlad13]

makbeer, on 17 March 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

Agree x10000000000000000000000000000000000 quirks is a terrible mechanic and is a crutch to let them pump out a billion tiny little band-aid solutions, rather than a real solution.

Yes, uneven groups can already be done in private matches, so the only limitation to it being done in pub matchs is the lack of desire to do it. I would love to see the Clan nerfs get greatly reduced and the queue changed to two Clan Stars vs three IS Lances (10 ,vs 12 for the ignorant). Yes, this would separate groups into Clan or IS, but the mixed queues kill immersion anyway.

[Bulletsponge0]

yup....Adder quirks are completely useless

Adder's main problems are speed, heat and CT

quess what none of the quirks address? yup, thats right, speed, heat and center torso.....

[BARBAR0SSA]

IronClaws, on 17 March 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Yes, uneven groups can already be done in private matches, so the only limitation to it being done in pub matchs is the lack of desire to do it. I would love to see the Clan nerfs get greatly reduced and the queue changed to two Clan Stars vs three IS Lances (10 ,vs 12 for the ignorant). Yes, this would separate groups into Clan or IS, but the mixed queues kill immersion anyway.

Biggest limitation

Remember the rewards change and how many people were livid and quitting etc.

12 v 8 massively reduced rewards

"Well then up them per mech"

Then players get left out

"Up the bonus across the board"

Incentive to ghost drop for $

etc etc.

Then they need to undo all quirks and restore clans to their original form...yikes that's a lot of back tracking.

I'd rather see more CW modes and action added in, make the solo queue part of some greater plan for CW yada yada "which could lead to fun scenarios of 12 scouts vs 8 clan mediums" where there's a distinct disadvantage with better reward if you win or lose.

Bulletsponge0, on 17 March 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

yup....Adder quirks are completely useless

Adder's main problems are speed, heat and CT

quess what none of the quirks address? yup, thats right, speed, heat and center torso.....

That's it?! Well why the heck were we all bitching, sheesh, don't we all feel stupid for questioning the cool down timer.

Edited by shad0w4life, 17 March 2015 - 04:12 PM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

better yet, make it real 10v16

[Jaeger Gonzo]

shad0w4life, on 17 March 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

Biggest limitation

Remember the rewards change and how many people were livid and quitting etc.

12 v 8 massively reduced rewards

"Well then up them per mech"

Then players get left out

"Up the bonus across the board"

Incentive to ghost drop for $

etc etc.

Then they need to undo all quirks and restore clans to their original form...yikes that's a lot of back tracking.

I'd rather see more CW modes and action added in, make the solo queue part of some greater plan for CW yada yada "which could lead to fun scenarios of 12 scouts vs 8 clan mediums" where there's a distinct disadvantage with better reward if you win or lose.





That's it?! Well why the heck were we all bitching, sheesh, don't we all feel stupid for questioning the cool down timer.

ee what?
you just rise reward for killing clans
should be since day one of clans
ouu well ghost drops sux
CW mechanics sux badly and need to be changed anyway

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 17 March 2015 - 04:19 PM.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Okay PGI, I will give you one example and you apply that logic to the other chassis, okay?

Why is the Adder bad?

1) Slow Light
2) Huge Light compared to other Lights
3) Too few hardpoints
4) Fixed Flamer in CT
5) No JJ
6) No ECM

The combination of point 1 and 2 make this mech fragile, while point 3 makes it useless. While the Nova as a counterexample is fragile too, it can at least mount 12 energy slots, meaning it can still be used as a risky glass cannon. The Adder, while having the same problem of low survivability, can't do that.

In order to make it worth the slow speed and huge geometry, one must up the damage potential of this mech.
You can do that by:
- Increasing the amounts of harpoints (x2 flat)
- Give it the ability to mount Jump Jets

It will still not be a good mech, but at least you might find one or two every 100 matches then. Other than that, increase the speed of that thing by a speed quirk. The engine is fixed and it needs to be faster to be useful. Give it +7.5% speed. Now, this mech is probably able to go 1:1 against a standard Firestarter in about 20% of all cases. It should be 50/50, but we want diversity, right?

So, again: You see the problems above what makes this mech bad and you just have to fix that by adding Quirks or possible equipment for this mech. Not having ECM is already a huge dealbreaker, so it needs firepower and speed. Face it against a Firestarter with 5 Med pulses or 8 SPL and get something out of it that at least comes into the same region.

[Wooosch]

Good...i tried the goyle with 2 prime arms, and double LBX5. And 2 MLs.
I a long fight, i weared a catapult( LRM) down - the problem was: the LBX hit most of the time, but...LBX, nuff said

It still has way too less podspace for enough ammo, and with the prime arms, very little energy hardpoints.

Even with the ballistic quirks, its still best played as an energy boat - in my opinion, the quirks are nice, but not usefull.
Switch them to something usefull for it, maybe +50% ugliness.
Or give it back this nice glow it had when it came out!

[John80sk]

These quirks legitimately make the Summoner worse (before it had a 10% Energy CD bonus, and a 10% ballistic CD bonus). Now it has Lbx quirks, which are a subpar weapon with only slight improvements over the basic 10% quirk. 4% SRM spread is also incredibly insignificant. I'd rather have the old quirks on the Summoner.

The Ice Ferret is one of the worst mechs in the game, and 5% quirks are not going to help it.

The Gargoyle seems to be getting mostly ballistic quirks, which it can't run because they're too heavy.

The Adder at least has some quirks it can use, but they're not enough to really make a difference.


If you are going to add quirks that do not support the current meta for the mech, then it has to be a more significant change. A 5% change is incredibly pointless when you're already dealing with a small value (usually 2-4 here).

[Ogunn]

I just want a 70 Summoner that can pack more weapons than a 65 ton Hellbringer. RIght now a Hellbringer carries more weapons and ammo than a Summoner and brings ECM. I think it is time to rethink 9 tons dedicated to fixed heat sinks and jump jets. FYI the Summoner is my favorite mech. I am still very upset I cannot use it in CW drops.

[kf envy]

I just want to say thank you for the slap in the face nerf to the summoner, thank you. I have to rethink playing, let alone spend any money on this anymore. I was hopping for some quirks that would give it an little love, not god level, just a little. Also thanks for the visual bug in the mech lab on the summoner too.

[The Argie]

they added more weigth to the AC-20 ( have same weigth of a gauss cannon in the past months)since few patches ago also to the ac-5, why dont tell the people those hidden nerf?
In this way some "ballistics mech" are losing capability like the "Nova", in the other hand, thanks for the quirk to the Hunchback was about to sell it... now can figth

[XSurusX]

Happy Adder-Master-Race Day everyone! The changes to the Adder are great. The additional durability is exactly what this mech needed since it lacks the speed of other lights. Extra durability with extra mobility, I mean what's not to love? With these two beneficial quirks I am able to excel at the "shoot whatever the fatty shoots" role I like to play. Peeking is much more efficient, not only with the increased mobility, but also without getting my stubby little arms blown off.

[aniviron]

Alienized, on 17 March 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

actually there are quite some people that made good use of the myst lynx or ice ferret all the time without quirks.
ye, maybe PGI should listen to THEM alot more.

I've finally mastered the Mist Lynx line; and let me tell you, the MLX does not need "iterative" 1-2% quirks. It needs huge, Locust-level quirks immediately.

My stats say that I am averaging 257.85 damage per round in my MLX-C, which is the best of the three. For reference on mechs I am leveling, the Hellbringer Prime, which still doesn't have basics, is doing 461 damage per round on average; the damage numbers are almost the same even though the Hellbringer has slightly more than half as many rounds as the MLX. If you're worried about comparing apples to oranges, well, my Kitfoxes are averaging ~375 per round between the three of them.

I will flat out state that the Mist Lynx is the worst mech I have ever piloted, and I've been running Awesomes since beta. This is a mech that's so bad that I am actually incredibly proud of that 257 average damage. The average player on a winning team in MWO does 250 per round, according to last year's stats. The fact that I have taken a mech this bad and achieved average level with it is undoubtedly my biggest achievement in MWO.

What's wrong with it you ask? Well, it's hard to get started because there's so much, but here goes:
-It has an incredibly anemic maximum of five hardpoints, and a grand total of six tons to work with after armor. The locked CAP in the head and six JJs don't help at all.
-Speaking of the JJs not helping at all, there's very little that these six tonnage wasters can do that the two in my Jenners and Kitfoxes can't. The one thing they're excellent at is generating heat- you can get to over 30% from the JJs on Terra Therma, and it's actually possible to kill yourself from overheating without stepping in the lava or firing a shot. The JJs are your lifeline as a light, and you need them to maneuver, but they're worthless, because it becomes a choice between moving and shooting. The small engine doesn't help either, as it means only seven of the sinks are true 2.0 DHS.
-The arms and legs fall off at a glance. Even with +12 in the legs and +16 in the arms, there's nothing you can do; it's almost impossible to get through a match without losing at least one limb, and hey, surprise, all the guns are in the arms.
-It's not really fast enough to have a lag shield, and the model is chunkier than a Firestarter. The Mist Lynx, much like the Locust, survives only when the enemy decides that they have better things to shoot. The moment they think you're worth the trouble, there's pretty much nothing between you and the MechLab again. At least Commandos and Locusts get an extra 50kph that helps them get out of trouble.
-Even if you try to stay out of close range danger, the MLX makes a terrible sniper because the arms are in relatively low mounts. It's okay though, the most ferocious long range weapons you can take are an ER LL + ER ML; again, you're so little threat to the enemy team that they let you shoot them until the end because your guns don't really do much.

So what about quirks then? I'm guessing next patch I get to look forward to +2% ER ML cooldowns on a mech that already runs too hot, and if I'm lucky, they won't take away the torso quirks like they did with the Summoners. But what the mech really needs is serious heat reduction bonuses, both for JJs and the weapons, and it needs either a speed or armor quirk. It also needs to be able to ditch the CAP and locked jumpjets, but that's not going to happen, so I won't even bother asking. What it absolutely doesn't need is some worthless machine gun range and overheat damage quirks, but given the trend so far, that's what I am expecting.

Edited by aniviron, 17 March 2015 - 07:35 PM.

[Mcgral18]

aniviron, on 17 March 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

So what about quirks then? I'm guessing next patch I get to look forward to +2% ER ML cooldowns on a mech that already runs too hot, and if I'm lucky, they won't take away the torso quirks like they did with the Summoners. But what the mech really needs is serious heat reduction bonuses, both for JJs and the weapons, and it needs either a speed or armor quirk. It also needs to be able to ditch the CAP and locked jumpjets, but that's not going to happen, so I won't even bother asking. What it absolutely doesn't need is some worthless machine gun range and overheat damage quirks, but given the trend so far, that's what I am expecting.

If it was an IS robot, it could be badass little Gundam.

Ditch the AP, lose 1 JJ, dump 3.5 tons into engine, wind up with a 250XL. So, you get to have a full 10 TrueDubs.

You also get to move 162, untweaked. 178 after 10%, while still having 4 tons of pod space and 5 JJs.


Wouldn't that be half decent? 4 ERMLs would be too hot for even 10 TrueDubs, but 4 SPLs or 2 ERMLs 2 SPLs make for half decent loadouts moving at that speed.

Alternatively, Jesus Box and a ERLL while either taking a smaller engine or sacrificing 2 more JJs.

If 180 is deemed too fast, or "Look 'Ma, no arms!" becomes "Look 'Ma, no hitreg!" you could use the next TT engine size of 225, for 9 TrueDubs. It would move 151/166 instead.
Without dropping ANY hardwired equipment, you still have those 4 tons of pod space. Drop the BAP and 2 JJs....you have identical pod space as you presently do, 6 tons.


I don't care if you'd have to take an IS XL to do that...totally worth it.

[Draykin]

I haven't really played around much with the Ice Ferret or Gargoyle (don't own them), but I can say for certain that the only significant Clan quirks here are the acceleration/deceleration boosts. I looked at the Adder quirks, hoping for a fun time; instead I found that my Adder Prime is still pretty sub-optimal.

Let's think about this for a moment. What are the downsides of a stock Adder Prime? Well, it's slow (for a Light), bulky, and only has a maximum of three weapons. Out of these, two of them are high-heat, high-cooldown, high-damage weapons, also known as C-ERPPCs. What did the Adder Prime omnipods get to help with these weapons? Velocity quirks. Why? No, really. Why? When I play in my Adder, there's one thing I wish I had; better heat reduction. I've played an Awesome-8Q that ran three PPCs, and because of its quirks, it ran those PPCs like a total boss. I could spew artificial lightning all over the place and not have to worry too much about heat, because that Awesome was designed around PPC usage. There's even an ERPPC variant of the Awesome that's pretty much the same thing, but for ERPPCs. Why, may I ask, is this not the case for the Adder Prime? It wants big energy weapons because that's the most optimal option for it, due to hardpoint restrictions. And, due to it being a light, it doesn't have the tonnage to back up two C-ERPPCS with enough heatsinks for decent cooling, which really hurts the Adder, making it have to work around hit and run. By the way, hit and run doesn't work that well when you need to get into a fight, fire off two shots, then run around for thirty seconds just so you can pop in again. I want this thing to be a threat, not a walking boiler.

And this isn't the only problem I have with the Adder quirks. You gave it bonuses to the arms and legs. Oh, for most lights, that's perfect and wonderful. Not for the Adder. The Adder is slow, and as such, there is no need at all to shoot them legs. On top of that, sure, the weapons are housed in the arms, but if you're taking damage, it's either to the CT or a side torso. You lose a side torso? Well, that arm's gone, so those extra points sure did you good to keep you from losing that arm. I also look at the missile Adder, hoping for something decent. Nope, it's tiny spread decreases. I doubt those numbers are even a notable difference from before the patch.

If you want to quirk the Adder up to make it a decent Clan 'Mech, here's the opinion of a Wolf Mechwarrior;

1. The Prime variant has big problems with heat due to those ERPPCs. Do something about that.
2. People don't target the Adder like other Lights. Beef up its CT and Side Torsos, and you give it much greater survivability.
3. Agility is good for almost any 'Mech. I like what you guys did here, but I'm wondering if you could push it just a bit more.

[XSurusX]

Draykin, on 17 March 2015 - 07:54 PM, said:

I haven't really played around much with the Ice Ferret or Gargoyle (don't own them), but I can say for certain that the only significant Clan quirks here are the acceleration/deceleration boosts. I looked at the Adder quirks, hoping for a fun time; instead I found that my Adder Prime is still pretty sub-optimal.

Let's think about this for a moment. What are the downsides of a stock Adder Prime? Well, it's slow (for a Light), bulky, and only has a maximum of three weapons. Out of these, two of them are high-heat, high-cooldown, high-damage weapons, also known as C-ERPPCs. What did the Adder Prime omnipods get to help with these weapons? Velocity quirks. Why? No, really. Why? When I play in my Adder, there's one thing I wish I had; better heat reduction. I've played an Awesome-8Q that ran three PPCs, and because of its quirks, it ran those PPCs like a total boss. I could spew artificial lightning all over the place and not have to worry too much about heat, because that Awesome was designed around PPC usage. There's even an ERPPC variant of the Awesome that's pretty much the same thing, but for ERPPCs. Why, may I ask, is this not the case for the Adder Prime? It wants big energy weapons because that's the most optimal option for it, due to hardpoint restrictions. And, due to it being a light, it doesn't have the tonnage to back up two C-ERPPCS with enough heatsinks for decent cooling, which really hurts the Adder, making it have to work around hit and run. By the way, hit and run doesn't work that well when you need to get into a fight, fire off two shots, then run around for thirty seconds just so you can pop in again. I want this thing to be a threat, not a walking boiler.

And this isn't the only problem I have with the Adder quirks. You gave it bonuses to the arms and legs. Oh, for most lights, that's perfect and wonderful. Not for the Adder. The Adder is slow, and as such, there is no need at all to shoot them legs. On top of that, sure, the weapons are housed in the arms, but if you're taking damage, it's either to the CT or a side torso. You lose a side torso? Well, that arm's gone, so those extra points sure did you good to keep you from losing that arm. I also look at the missile Adder, hoping for something decent. Nope, it's tiny spread decreases. I doubt those numbers are even a notable difference from before the patch.

If you want to quirk the Adder up to make it a decent Clan 'Mech, here's the opinion of a Wolf Mechwarrior;

1. The Prime variant has big problems with heat due to those ERPPCs. Do something about that.
2. People don't target the Adder like other Lights. Beef up its CT and Side Torsos, and you give it much greater survivability.
3. Agility is good for almost any 'Mech. I like what you guys did here, but I'm wondering if you could push it just a bit more.

Adder quirks seem fine to me...
#ADDERMASTERRACE

P.S. If anyone knows how to take screenshots while using dual monitors with this game please let me know so I can stop taking pictures of potatoes with my phone.

Edited by XSurusX, 17 March 2015 - 08:09 PM.

[Sorbic]

Anyone have a list of the clan quirks before this patch?