625 replies to this topic

[Saxdasm762]

So the IS still has the Thunderbolt which can comfortably fire 3 ERPPC's ,but the Adder, which is a 'Mech designed to use 2 CERPPC's, still cannot comfortably fire 2? At least give it -10% CERPPC Heat Gen between both arms, or something. I believe that the mech was a T5 to begin with, and I can comfortably say that that is unchanged.

[XSurusX]

The PPC Adder is easily among the least effective builds for this mech. When CW was first released I used a dual PPC setup without the TC and as many DHC as I could fit but there are just many other mechs that fit the sniper role much better than the Adder. After I switched to a brawling build my avg damage per match has skyrocketed. I am able to benefit my team as a whole much better than I could when I tried to snipe all day

[Felio]

Nooee, on 18 March 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

It is hard to believe that the Div's Fail to see that Nerfing the Heavy Metal further is of little use. You have already Nerfed it to almost non-use. With the addition of these Qurks, it is even less effective as a missile platform.
HGN-HM
Ballistic Cooldown +10% Ballistic Velocity +10% Laser Duration -10% Missile Cooldown +10%

The Heavy Metal has been buffed a little every quirk patch, including this one.

You know +10% cooldown means 10% shorter cooldown, right? I know it's weird; PGI just prefers to write it that way. So it's actually better at missiles than pre-quirk.

Lastly... you use your HM as a missile platform?

[BARBAR0SSA]

Quote

[color=#F00]REDACTED[/color]

Odd, the better mechs got utterly destroyed and that's before being quirked even more.

Edited by Mike Forst, 18 March 2015 - 01:26 PM.
Redacting quote of unapproved post

[Dagorlad13]

Unfortunately the only Summoner that received significant quirks is the ALT-C, which is only available for $ at the moment.

[Dagorlad13]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 17 March 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

better yet, make it real 10v16

Only if Clan and IS mechs were at their tabletop power levels.

[GottJammern]

-2% LRM/SRM spread?
I think charging 40,000 less c-bills from the Gargoyle would amount to pretty much the same effect overall in playability. That is to say, nothing changed at all.

Seriously, I'd rather have -1% Ballistic cooldown as opposed to -2% LRM/SRM spread. At least with -1% Ballistic cooldown, I could FEEL good when I cry myself to sleep each night.

[Mike Forst]

Hi everyone!

I am one of the people who helped implement this latest batch of quirks. I have reviewed this thread and taken some feedback notes. I do read and value your feedback. More quirks are on the way for the next patch along with some changes to the quirks that were put in place on the 17th.

We are reviewing the performance of these quirks and will be making adjustments in the future based on the results. I know that some of the weapon quirks seem too small on the clan Mechs and understand your concern. Part of the focus this time around was in trying to make Mechs more durable and agile on the battlefield and that focus will continue for the near future. There is still lots more work to be done and it is already underway.

As much as I'd like to, I cannot possibly reply to everyone in this thread. I will keep reading and taking notes though.

[Verkhne]

But you didn't make the quirks such that people would want to further test the mechs...so no data

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lol, so the Adder gets 15% CERPPC Speed, Summoner gets 7.5%? So like 75m more velocity per second?

As if that will make any difference.

Mcgral18, on 16 March 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

Brah, 4% more MG range!

Less overheat damage?


Well, the Pay-For Suckonner arm has 5% less heat, which is arguably the third best quirk on this list.

Structure will be handy.

The Clan quirks, even looking at them combined appear a little...underwhelming? the C pods, you can stack for 4% laser cool down, all together, a lvl 2 Laser CD mod gives more then that, I think its like 5%.

Lookin at the Summoner Prime for another PPC Speed mods, none, 75m more velocity. so, 1075ms? or are they 1050+75? Either way, I didnt notice a difference with a TC4 on my WHK giving me 10.5% more. 30% is about where you would notice a difference at all.

Nice to see Clan quirks happening though. Now we await the other Clan mechs. And MIssile spread quirks? Those sound kinda nice, maybe the best of them all, since the IS dont have those.

Saxdasm762, on 18 March 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

So the IS still has the Thunderbolt which can comfortably fire 3 ERPPC's ,but the Adder, which is a 'Mech designed to use 2 CERPPC's, still cannot comfortably fire 2? At least give it -10% CERPPC Heat Gen between both arms, or something. I believe that the mech was a T5 to begin with, and I can comfortably say that that is unchanged.

Yeah, even combined the Clan quirks dont even begin to touch IS quirks O,o

[Anakha]

Apart from the fact I think most of the quirk values on the clan mechs are too low to provide much combat value I think one of my biggest problems with the clan quirk implementation is that the quirks are based on stock loadouts that nobody really uses and tied to the omnipod. Most of us don't put the same weapon as the stock load out in that location and if we don't use that wpn the quirks force us to use the weapon you are quirking AND putting it in that location. Please remember these are omnipods and give more general quirks for energy/balistic/missles instead of for specific weapons so you don't eliminate player customization. In addition i don't think they reflect what needs to be improved on specific mechs.

Let me give you an example. A good summoner build is 4ML in the arms, UAC 10 in the RT and ASRM6 in the LT. The good quirks that you gave one of the summoners for the UAC the SMN-C are in the left arm. But what if i want to put my UAC in the RT so i can have 4 lasers? Your quirks would not help the mech at all. If you were to place them on the variant CT/Chassis then each variant is unique, i can choose my omnipods and weapon locations as i see fit and still benefit from the quirks.

Specifically the problem with the summoner is that it has no endo and locked JJ so it lacks tonnage. In addition it lacks very many weapon hard points. Quirks i would give this mech would make up for those deficiencies. For example things like less energy heat generation to substitute for its lack of tonnage for heat sinks. Quirks that would help with limited hard points like weapon cool downs for the single AC or missile hard points etc...

I hope you will look at these things when modifying the quirks and not put in a restrictive quirk system that limits player choice and also helps with the shortcomings of specific mechs.

I know there are legions of Summoner fans in MWO who all want to be able to bring it for CW drops and be competitive.

Edited by Anakha, 18 March 2015 - 05:13 PM.

[Mike Forst]

Chef Kerensky, on 16 March 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

A more elegant solution would be to make the quirks per omnipod much, much better and just make it so they don't stack.

This way a Puma has 15% ERPPC velocity whether it decides to carry one or two of them, but not 30% just because it chooses to carry two.

Then all you have to do is actually make the quirks themselves good.

This would be a great idea but unfortunately isn't possible based on how both the quirks and the underlying weapons themselves work.

Grabbabrewski, on 16 March 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

For months Russ has been talking about increasing the Summoners jumping capability as a high priority because of all the JJ's that are locked into it. What happened? Maybe I missed something. Remove some, or make them be worth having for something other then climbing over rocks or up steps....

I really wanted to be able to do something to help jumpjets with this pass but do not have the tools available right now.

[Mike Forst]

Wintersdark, on 17 March 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

Understood, but even stacked... they're really low.

I get incremental changes, I really do. I get not wanted to push them beyond Holy Trinity Levels because those are admittedly too high as it stands, though the upcoming XL ST loss speed nerf will help. But these are so low, on such lackluster chassis... I'm really disappointed. They're not even remotely close to enough to make those chassis worthwhile.

I suppose my fear here is that over time, we've heard the "small incremental adjustments" a lot of times, followed by a tiny change that's not readdressed again. Generally (and I understand this) because of a simple lack of time to do it.

---

So, what's the road map for looking at these changes? In a couple weeks, are you going to address these mechs again, or make another very minor set of quirk changes on another set of sub par clan mechs?

I'm fine with really small adjustments and basically inconsequentially small start if they are quickly iterated upon... but without that, while this obviously didn't hurt any of those mechs, it doesn't really help them either.



I too would really like to see changes to the leg (and head, for that matter) omnipods to actually make them interesting. Make the choice of which omnipod you mount in those legs a relevant choice.



If the resultant quirks added up to such levels, the 2% individual quirks would matter more. But precious few of those onmipod quirks are actually stacking to anything due to a lack of similar quirks on other pods.

The roadmap as it stands is to try and have changes available every patch. There are some already in progress that I'm hoping to get in for the next patch.

[Yokaiko]

Mike Forst, on 18 March 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

I really wanted to be able to do something to help jumpjets with this pass but do not have the tools available right now.

Straight up this is crap, because a LOT of us experienced JJs as they were.

[Mike Forst]

Better Call Saul, on 16 March 2015 - 07:33 PM, said:

Re-think the gargoyle quirks, the mech is not viable wasting tonnage on ballistics or SRM. Please make them energy based, so the mech has some "use"

Part of the goal is for all the pods have a role. Applying a blanket set of energy quirks to ballistic pods won't help accomplish that goal. I am aware (at least as it stands today) that some people will see those pods as sub-optimal but that doesn't mean they won't be with the right tuning.

Yokaiko, on 18 March 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

Straight up this is crap, because a LOT of us experienced JJs as they were.

I mean with regards to quirks: there are no jumpjet quirks. I can only use the tools that I have available.

[Wintersdark]

Mike Forst, on 18 March 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

The roadmap as it stands is to try and have changes available every patch. There are some already in progress that I'm hoping to get in for the next patch.

Any thoughts as to adding leg omnipod quirks to make legs actually matter? They're basically all identical now, it'd be nice to have a reason to swap them out.

Maybe one set accelerates a bit faster, another set turns faster, whatever. More interesting choices makes for fun mechlab time.

[Mike Forst]

Wintersdark, on 18 March 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

Any thoughts as to adding leg omnipod quirks to make legs actually matter? They're basically all identical now, it'd be nice to have a reason to swap them out.

Maybe one set accelerates a bit faster, another set turns faster, whatever. More interesting choices makes for fun mechlab time.

Right now they're being kept in reserve to allow for future expansion of quirks.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Mike Forst, on 18 March 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

Part of the goal is for all the pods have a role.

Fine and good, except you're not doing it. There is no realm of logical thought in which a person with an Adder Prime with dual ERPPC's wants to fire them so they can overheat quicker. FYI, you're not making lasers look any less appealing. I'm actually surprised there are no negative quirks put in to deter Clan pilots from using metabuilds on omnipods.

[FupDup]

Mike Forst, on 18 March 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

Part of the goal is for all the pods have a role. Applying a blanket set of energy quirks to ballistic pods won't help accomplish that goal. I am aware (at least as it stands today) that some people will see those pods as sub-optimal but that doesn't mean they won't be with the right tuning.

In regards to the Gargoyle ballistic/missile arms, would some kind of quirk to increase ballistic ammo be possible (after some expansions to the set of available/possible quirks)? That could somewhat help people who use the prime arms to try to find the weight available to use more than 1 ballistic weapon.

[Mike Forst]

Cody Furlong, on 18 March 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

So the TBT-3C Losses missile cool down and missile heat gen, and gains lrm family cool down and lrm heat gen? I'm confused at some of these perk changes and what they mean.

Previously the only quirks that were available were for an individual weapon and entire weapon types (ie. LRM15 and Missile). This pass introduces weapon families: LRM Family affects all LRM launchers but not SRMs and SSRMs.

Before if we wanted to provide a quirk for just LRMs we would have to add individual LRM5, LRM10, LRM15, and LRM20 quirks and it would have been a long list. Now we can apply a quirk to all LRMs at once without affecting the other missile types.

FupDup, on 18 March 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

In regards to the Gargoyle ballistic/missile arms, would some kind of quirk to increase ballistic ammo be possible (after some expansions to the set of available/possible quirks)? That could somewhat help people who use the prime arms to try to find the weight available to use more than 1 ballistic weapon.

There are no quirks that affect ammo counts.