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Ice Ferret and Mr.Gargles will be staying in the garage.
19
March 17 Quirk Update
Started by Tina Benoit, Mar 16 2015 12:06 PM
625 replies to this topic
#62
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:54 PM
Things not being discussed in this thread:
1. Quirk passes will be smaller and more iterative. Welcome to step 1, there will be more because this isn't enough for clams, and this is by their design.
2. UAC jam reduction (awesome)
3. Tighter LRM spread (free artimis)
4. Increased missile speed (lrmaggedon?)
5. LBX spread reduction
6. Omnipod specific quirk system
That's right, 5 new mechanics to make sure actually work when they hit, and not break anything else. Maybe they're keeping the clan quriks low for now so they don't have to deal with an over-buffed adder-pocaplyse as well as the fallout from new systems breaking existing code.
1. Quirk passes will be smaller and more iterative. Welcome to step 1, there will be more because this isn't enough for clams, and this is by their design.
2. UAC jam reduction (awesome)
3. Tighter LRM spread (free artimis)
4. Increased missile speed (lrmaggedon?)
5. LBX spread reduction
6. Omnipod specific quirk system
That's right, 5 new mechanics to make sure actually work when they hit, and not break anything else. Maybe they're keeping the clan quriks low for now so they don't have to deal with an over-buffed adder-pocaplyse as well as the fallout from new systems breaking existing code.
Edited by Big Tin Man, 16 March 2015 - 12:55 PM.
#63
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- The Blazing
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:55 PM
QQ Tsunami sighted off the coast! Will the island survive??
#64
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- Storm
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:56 PM
@ Adder quirks:
Yes I know some are small, but to be honest I can't even begin to care. ADDER IS GETTING BUFFS YESSS
Yes I know some are small, but to be honest I can't even begin to care. ADDER IS GETTING BUFFS YESSS
#65
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:56 PM
Stefka Kerensky, on 16 March 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:
nova nova nova nova nova nova novaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
dont worry im sure the Nova will get=
-10% Laser Cool-down on its P arms,
-2% Laser duration on its S arms,
after all, thats all thats needed to make Clan mechs good right?
im sure with the -2% Stacked Laser Duration of the Adder its gonna kill right?
#66
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:59 PM
Guys, please remember that the Clan weapons are already better than IS. The less played mechs have been given some pretty good movement and structure quirks, and some (very) minor weapon quirks.
We have been begging them to make smaller changes forever.
When they do, and THEY TELL YOU UP FRONT that these are small changes for balance purposes, out come the pitchforks.
Be reasonable. This is not a final position. This is a first step. If it has a +1 today, it could very easily have a +5 next month after testing. As with all things, please reserve judgment till you've played it and then give reasonable suggestions.
The sky has not fallen.
We have been begging them to make smaller changes forever.
When they do, and THEY TELL YOU UP FRONT that these are small changes for balance purposes, out come the pitchforks.
Be reasonable. This is not a final position. This is a first step. If it has a +1 today, it could very easily have a +5 next month after testing. As with all things, please reserve judgment till you've played it and then give reasonable suggestions.
The sky has not fallen.
#67
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:00 PM
I gave this some though.
Ice Ferret is nice because of the acceleration and SRM bonus.
Everything else is carbage because it doesn't counter the problems these Mechs have and because of which they are not played.
Adder is too slow for its poor armor. You can't give if leg internals because noone shoots it in the legs, there is no need to. Same goes for hands. Acceleration boost is nice but useless - if you stop in an Adder you are dead. It might help those few people who play this Mech with bad habits from assaults/heavies (and stop at every corner) but for Clan light that has to keep at full speed to survive this is nothing. What is the rest we have? -2% spread to SRMs. Yay, definitely worth your time PGI!
Gargoyle. This Mech will always be skill-dependant. It is fast but can't turn around. Good pilot can counter this somehow by predictions and no unneccessary movement, but the reason why Gargoyle is of the least played Clan Mechs is that it has nothing to offer to good players. Turning bonus is nice, additional structure to arms is solid but the rest is meh. This Mech has to rely on energy weapons simply because it has so little space to spare, until anything is done about it it will always be just another Clan Mech that must boat small lasers for punching power. I have nothing against difficult Mechs (I like Catapults after all) but there must be some reason to it. Gargoyle is simply too gimped by its huge movement profile.
Summoner - never played them and will not touch them in the future. Sure, 5% speed is nice but quirks are somehow cheap. Nothing mentioned will change how the Mech behaves in battle, which is excatly what Quirks should change.
Ice Ferret is nice because of the acceleration and SRM bonus.
Everything else is carbage because it doesn't counter the problems these Mechs have and because of which they are not played.
Adder is too slow for its poor armor. You can't give if leg internals because noone shoots it in the legs, there is no need to. Same goes for hands. Acceleration boost is nice but useless - if you stop in an Adder you are dead. It might help those few people who play this Mech with bad habits from assaults/heavies (and stop at every corner) but for Clan light that has to keep at full speed to survive this is nothing. What is the rest we have? -2% spread to SRMs. Yay, definitely worth your time PGI!
Gargoyle. This Mech will always be skill-dependant. It is fast but can't turn around. Good pilot can counter this somehow by predictions and no unneccessary movement, but the reason why Gargoyle is of the least played Clan Mechs is that it has nothing to offer to good players. Turning bonus is nice, additional structure to arms is solid but the rest is meh. This Mech has to rely on energy weapons simply because it has so little space to spare, until anything is done about it it will always be just another Clan Mech that must boat small lasers for punching power. I have nothing against difficult Mechs (I like Catapults after all) but there must be some reason to it. Gargoyle is simply too gimped by its huge movement profile.
Summoner - never played them and will not touch them in the future. Sure, 5% speed is nice but quirks are somehow cheap. Nothing mentioned will change how the Mech behaves in battle, which is excatly what Quirks should change.
#68
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:00 PM
Ozealot, on 16 March 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:
I'm probably on an island...
Every Clan Player is now, 1-4% buffs, Wow they really know how to make Clan better,
im sure you will see allot of Adders around more often now, and the other 3 mechs as well,
#69
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:02 PM
Veritae, on 16 March 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:
Guys, please remember that the Clan weapons are already better than IS. The less played mechs have been given some pretty good movement and structure quirks, and some (very) minor weapon quirks.
We have been begging them to make smaller changes forever.
When they do, and THEY TELL YOU UP FRONT that these are small changes for balance purposes, out come the pitchforks.
Be reasonable. This is not a final position. This is a first step. If it has a +1 today, it could very easily have a +5 next month after testing. As with all things, please reserve judgment till you've played it and then give reasonable suggestions.
The sky has not fallen.
We have been begging them to make smaller changes forever.
When they do, and THEY TELL YOU UP FRONT that these are small changes for balance purposes, out come the pitchforks.
Be reasonable. This is not a final position. This is a first step. If it has a +1 today, it could very easily have a +5 next month after testing. As with all things, please reserve judgment till you've played it and then give reasonable suggestions.
The sky has not fallen.
Seriously don't start that debate in here, just edit your post now for the love of god.
There's ghost heat changes, DPS, mech specific quirks etc. All to consider and depending on what side of the fence someone is on...it will get ugly.
Eg. Is 300m MPL for 6 dmg 4 heat better than a 330m, 8 dmg 6 heat, when factoring in that DHS are 1.4 so that 2 heat for 2 damage isn't a direct relationship and can affect the rate of fire, which on a hot map can be life or death.
On that note though, none of the adder or ice ferret quirks made me go, oh yeah this will give a firestarter, black jack, cent, enf a run for their money! I think that's what people were expecting, more of a speed tweak and erPPC not causing it to melt so it could at least dish out 12.5 - 15 dmg every 4-5 seconds.
Edited by shad0w4life, 16 March 2015 - 01:08 PM.
#70
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:03 PM
Veritae, on 16 March 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:
Guys, please remember that the Clan weapons are already better than IS. The less played mechs have been given some pretty good movement and structure quirks, and some (very) minor weapon quirks.
We have been begging them to make smaller changes forever.
When they do, and THEY TELL YOU UP FRONT that these are small changes for balance purposes, out come the pitchforks.
Be reasonable. This is not a final position. This is a first step. If it has a +1 today, it could very easily have a +5 next month after testing. As with all things, please reserve judgment till you've played it and then give reasonable suggestions.
The sky has not fallen.
We have been begging them to make smaller changes forever.
When they do, and THEY TELL YOU UP FRONT that these are small changes for balance purposes, out come the pitchforks.
Be reasonable. This is not a final position. This is a first step. If it has a +1 today, it could very easily have a +5 next month after testing. As with all things, please reserve judgment till you've played it and then give reasonable suggestions.
The sky has not fallen.
maybe cause they arent small changes they are microscopic changes..... as someone said before a company actually paid its employees to waste time on deciding on 1-2% changes?
#71
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:03 PM
So does UAC jam chance -5% mean that the jam chance goes from 20% to 15%? Or from 20% to 19%? It could mean either, and I feel like it's a pretty important distinction.
#72
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:04 PM
Remember that this is me after reading the original list and about a dozen or so comments, so pardon if this has already been addressed, but...
A lot of the 'these numbers are awfully underwhelming..." comments are possibly out of place. Pretty much the first thing Tina said was that Piranha's shifting to a more iterative approach to quirking, and given how often we've all begged, begged, BEGGED Piranha to make smaller changes more quickly instead of pushing the Fuggidall Button every six months...well, let's see if they get to the 'more quickly' part of iterative changes, too. If so, this could be a hella good deal.
Furthermore, the changes seem to be aimed at giving each individual variant some extra character beyond just whatever single specific weapon that particular chassis gets a million cumulative bonuses for. No longer are players going to get to sell every OmniMech past the first on the assumption of "I can do anything I want on one chassis anyways, why keep the others?" All to the good - even if the Gargoyle still needs its hillclimb profile kicked down to Large before it'll start feeling even remotely right.
The 'LRM family' quirks on the Trebs made my bloody day, as did the 'SL/ML/LL'-type quirks on a couple of them. Smaller bonuses for a wider selection of weapons gives us more breadth of personalization without, hopefully, going all Popeye Arm style a'la the DRG-1N, which hopefully does a better job of helping underperforming machines to stop underperforming without making them TDR-9S type monstrosities. We want to normalize general effectiveness across the board, not give certain specific niche-y builds an overwhelming power boost while making every other example of the 'Mech still flat awful.
(Yes, I'm aware the IV4 just got very nearly DRG-1N style AC/5 perks. I would argue that the IV4 is in fact so horrible that giving it 40% cooldowns on its autocannons is both somewhat lore-appropriate, as the IV4 is supposed to be a gunslinger-y Quickdraw making very effective use of its non-spec autocannons, and also the only thing that'd make it worth piloting.)
Overall? I like this new direction. Smaller changes more quickly, and changes aimed at improving individual variant character and diversity as much as anything else. Go Piranha. Keep making it happen.
A lot of the 'these numbers are awfully underwhelming..." comments are possibly out of place. Pretty much the first thing Tina said was that Piranha's shifting to a more iterative approach to quirking, and given how often we've all begged, begged, BEGGED Piranha to make smaller changes more quickly instead of pushing the Fuggidall Button every six months...well, let's see if they get to the 'more quickly' part of iterative changes, too. If so, this could be a hella good deal.
Furthermore, the changes seem to be aimed at giving each individual variant some extra character beyond just whatever single specific weapon that particular chassis gets a million cumulative bonuses for. No longer are players going to get to sell every OmniMech past the first on the assumption of "I can do anything I want on one chassis anyways, why keep the others?" All to the good - even if the Gargoyle still needs its hillclimb profile kicked down to Large before it'll start feeling even remotely right.
The 'LRM family' quirks on the Trebs made my bloody day, as did the 'SL/ML/LL'-type quirks on a couple of them. Smaller bonuses for a wider selection of weapons gives us more breadth of personalization without, hopefully, going all Popeye Arm style a'la the DRG-1N, which hopefully does a better job of helping underperforming machines to stop underperforming without making them TDR-9S type monstrosities. We want to normalize general effectiveness across the board, not give certain specific niche-y builds an overwhelming power boost while making every other example of the 'Mech still flat awful.
(Yes, I'm aware the IV4 just got very nearly DRG-1N style AC/5 perks. I would argue that the IV4 is in fact so horrible that giving it 40% cooldowns on its autocannons is both somewhat lore-appropriate, as the IV4 is supposed to be a gunslinger-y Quickdraw making very effective use of its non-spec autocannons, and also the only thing that'd make it worth piloting.)
Overall? I like this new direction. Smaller changes more quickly, and changes aimed at improving individual variant character and diversity as much as anything else. Go Piranha. Keep making it happen.
#73
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:07 PM
one digit percentages.... as expected. 2-3% changes are pretty small by PGI standards. This is the first time something didn't got the buff/nerf sledgehammer.
So, the "not so good" clanmechs will stay "not so good" until the next quirk pass comes, which will take some more months of work.
So, the "not so good" clanmechs will stay "not so good" until the next quirk pass comes, which will take some more months of work.
#74
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- The Sureshot
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:07 PM
Tina Benoit, on 16 March 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:
Hey MechWarriors!
You might notice a change to the quirk design process starting with this patch. We are going to be switching to a more iterative quirk design process for the near future. As such, these quirk changes in general are not as large as some of those that were previously added. We will evaluate the performance of these quirks and make further adjustments in the future as warranted based on the results.
The quirks that are highlighted in white italics are either new or have been changed in the March 17th patch.
Inner Sphere Mechs
Trebuchets
Quickdraws
Catapults
Highlanders
Clan Mechs
Adders
Ice Ferrets
Summoners
Gargoyles
You might notice a change to the quirk design process starting with this patch. We are going to be switching to a more iterative quirk design process for the near future. As such, these quirk changes in general are not as large as some of those that were previously added. We will evaluate the performance of these quirks and make further adjustments in the future as warranted based on the results.
The quirks that are highlighted in white italics are either new or have been changed in the March 17th patch.
Inner Sphere Mechs
Trebuchets
Spoiler
Quickdraws
Spoiler
Catapults
Spoiler
Highlanders
Spoiler
Clan Mechs
Adders
Spoiler
Ice Ferrets
Spoiler
Summoners
Spoiler
Gargoyles
Spoiler
I'm feeling really underwhelmed by the clan quirks...
I understand wanting to do it in small doses, but these just seem to light, that I'm not sure they will even be noticeable really...
After the quirk passes that IS mechs got, this just leaves me going:
#75
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:07 PM
Veritae, on 16 March 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:
Guys, please remember that the Clan weapons are already better than IS. The less played mechs have been given some pretty good movement and structure quirks, and some (very) minor weapon quirks.
We have been begging them to make smaller changes forever.
When they do, and THEY TELL YOU UP FRONT that these are small changes for balance purposes, out come the pitchforks.
Be reasonable. This is not a final position. This is a first step. If it has a +1 today, it could very easily have a +5 next month after testing. As with all things, please reserve judgment till you've played it and then give reasonable suggestions.
The sky has not fallen.
We have been begging them to make smaller changes forever.
When they do, and THEY TELL YOU UP FRONT that these are small changes for balance purposes, out come the pitchforks.
Be reasonable. This is not a final position. This is a first step. If it has a +1 today, it could very easily have a +5 next month after testing. As with all things, please reserve judgment till you've played it and then give reasonable suggestions.
The sky has not fallen.
Clan weapons are balanced to IS pretty well right now,
(im not going to go into that as its another Discussion)
its just that its not even testing the waters,
2-4% is nothing, Adder with C-ER-LL(which would gain the most from this)
Example= with-out Adder Quirks(C-ER-LL= 1.5) / with Adder Quirks(C-ER-LL= 1.44)
the Weapon Quirks are a Joke, its padding, the Structure and Acceleration is nice though,
#76
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- Big Daddy
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:07 PM
Remember guys, they did say they would be iterative. So if there is no difference after a little while they will probably boost them a little.
I was most interested in the Highlander, and it looks like they tried to address the mobility and general survivability, so that is cool... will see how it ends up turning out. Was hoping for some energy heat reduction but oh well.
I was most interested in the Highlander, and it looks like they tried to address the mobility and general survivability, so that is cool... will see how it ends up turning out. Was hoping for some energy heat reduction but oh well.
#77
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:07 PM
shad0w4life, on 16 March 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:
Seriously don't start that debate in here, just edit your post now for the love of god.
Why? It has been PGI's position that Clan mechs are superior to IS mechs for some time now. I know you guys hate hearing that, but that is their stance.
#78
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:09 PM
Alistair Winter, on 16 March 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:
Russ, thanks for posting here. Please, please have another look at the CPLT-K2. Arguably the most iconic PPC platform after the AWS-8Q, yet no one is using it for PPCs. It's just used for AC10s and gauss. It is begging for some PPC cooldown / heat reduction quirks. Not projectile speed or range.
Please, please, save the CPLT-K2!
Please, please, save the CPLT-K2!
If it makes you feel any better, no one is using Awesomes at all.
So at least the K2 has that.
#79
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:09 PM
Russ Bullock, on 16 March 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:
Remember the Clan omnipod amounts are low because players can stack with other pods
I can stack my Adder omnipod quirks for 4% spread reduction, yay!
Though I fear I might not ever notice this buff in my life, ever. SRMs are hit or miss - you either aim well and hit those 1-2 components you were aiming for or you miss, no matter if you miss completely or your damage gets spread all over the place for no real effect. If you want to buff SRMs then please go for velocity because it helps when aiming a lot.
LRMs? The only quirk Clan LRMs will ever need is velocity. We don't care about theoretical spread on our LRMs when half of our missiles are eaten by enemy AMS. Spread has little practical impact on Clan Mechs. Velocity, on the other hand... Increased velocity could give Adder some nice flavour while still keeping it mediocre at best. Lets face it, no ammount of LRMs on Clan light is going to make it OP. Honestly no ammout of LRMs on anything is going to make them OP...
#80
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Posted 16 March 2015 - 01:11 PM
are you guys serious with those clan quirks?
ROFLOOOOL
ROFLOOOOL
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