716 replies to this topic

[F4T 4L]

Gyrok, on 17 March 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

Instead of nerfing clans into oblivion (shades of the victor nerf back in the day) and offering single digit quirks as a consolation prize...I have a suggestion, please hear me out.

I think that rather than piss off a large number of the people playing clans, why not bring in the LFEs (http://www.sarna.net..._Engine_-_Light) for the IS?

This would basically stop all the crying about engines, it would also have to come with some drawbacks as well. Quirks on the IS side would need to be adjusted, heavily, without doubt. However, this offers an option that allows mechs to be on roughly equal footing. As the timeline advances, this tech would come about in the primary wave of IS Omnimechs anyway, so why not offer it as an available option now?

I think the way this should work would be that if you equip a LFE into your battlemech, you should have the endo/ferro slots locked. For the sake of grins and giggles, you can turn those off/on, but you cannot dictate where the slots are taken up. That way, you get a pseudo-omnimech that would allow IS to have similar functionality choice versus the Clans (which would still be unable to change engines, at all...).

Thoughts?

Meh, I'm all for it. Clans are OP, statistically, IIUC.. And it sure beats dying outright. Right?

I could care less about TT rules.. But I'd really have to make an effort.

Edited by F4T 4L, 17 March 2015 - 01:11 PM.

[Finn McShae]

I think that mechs should still go top speed and heat sink reduction with 2/3 of their critical engine capacity gone.

Wait, no I dont.

[Kristov Kerensky]

CyclonerM, on 17 March 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

*snip*

Basically, yes, you are correct about how IS Mechs are customized, it takes money, time and trained techs, and in some cases, specialized facilities. However, if you have enough money and time, ANYTHING can be done. It IS a pen and paper game after all, rules are there to be ignored or used as seen fit by the players, general rule with customization of IS Mechs, if you've got the money, consider it done. I once created a brand new Mech, customized from the internal structure on out, complete blue prints, my GM was a stickler for stuff like that, we were all in college and had access to CAD software, and so on. He took it, looked it all over, did the calculations for the work, gave me an amount and time frame for a prototype to be developed, tested and delivered. I gave over the cbills, and our next game session I had my brand new fresh from the testing grounds Mech. Even in PnP, time is something that's only important when it actually needs to be important.

Sure, it'd be great if they did that in MWO, make us WAIT for months to customize our Mechs as we want. I think this game would have never gotten off the drawing boards if they did that. Stock only is one thing, but allowing for customization at a cost of serious real world time, not going to happen, not if they want to actually make money off the game.

OmniMech construction rules are real simple. If it's not an Omnipod, it's static, doesn't get changed, the entire basis of the Omnipod system is built around the fact that ONLY certain things get changed, the Internal Structure doesn't get changed, engines stay the same, certain components are hardwired and that's how they work. Omnipods are specially designed pods that weapons can be fitted into and all use special connectors to hook into the Mech's computer and control circuitry, so you can't go mucking about with the structure of the Mech or it's engine, the hardwiring of those isn't something you do in a matter of hours, which is the selling point of the pods. Drop on a planet, see that the battleground is useless for LRMs, too hot for lots of energy weapons, so swap out those LRM and ERPPC pods for some ERML and uAC10 pods, done in 2 hours. IS Mech, you drop and see the same battleground and well..uhm...yeah, you go into battle with whatever you showed up with, you don't get to swap them out in the field like OmniMechs can.

In MWO, it doesn't seem like that much of an advantage, but it is since Omni's have X tonnage in pods, and MOST OmniMechs can pretty much cover the gamut of possible weapons. Some obvious things like the Nova not being able to mount LRMs, glaring issue that should be addressed, ALL OmniMech should be able to equip ALL weapon types, and they need to redo some of them like the Warhawk which should have better configs possible.

Clan XL engines and ST's being blown off, there SHOULD be a penalty, you've just lost a chunk of your ENGINE for Kerensky's sake, come on! The entire engine doesn't shutdown like an IS XL does, but it SHOULD be a very obviously bad thing when you lose THAT much of your engine, 2/3rds of it for all intents and purposes after all. 20% drop in speed, 20% decrease in cooling ability, seems pretty tame really, since the actual TT rules are much harsher, 40kph drop in speed, 1 heat/second gained. Most Clan Mechs won't see 40kph drops OR gain 1 heat/second with the ST blown off. Dire's will see around 10kph drop, KitFox or Adder will drop around 20kph, Scrow and Timby around 20kph as well isn't it? That is a DROP of 10/20kph from their TOP speed, not being slowed DOWN to 10/20kph top speed. It's far from being instant death, most people won't even realize it, same as most people didn't realize they've already been losing that cooling ability....

[1453 R]

I'm going to say this to all the Spheroid players out there cackling like mad and pointing fingers at the Bad Naughty Evil Clanners over this whole CXL nerf debate.

G'head. We'll take the 20% speed reduction. We'll take it and make it work, though after this I'm going to have to ask you folks to leave the CXL alone. 20% speed loss is kind of a big deal, and unlike your own technology base, Clan 'Mechs are locked into their XL engines even when they have extremely XL-unfriendly hitboxes (Warhawk, looking at you), or when they're locked into a very bad CXL weight (did someone hear a Gargoyle calling?).

And when your Light Fusion Engines come out, and you can pick whatever LFE rating you want for your 'Mech, and you can slap that engine in your 'Mech in its dynamically shifting structural uprades that go wherever you weren't using that space anyways, around your rotary autocannons and your forty-tube MRM launchers and your X-pulse lasers and your C3 networks and all those other things you guys have coming that the Clans never get an answer to?

Well, when you lose a shoulder on those LFEs, you're going to lose 20% of your heat cap, dissipation, and movement speed, too. And when you raise a hue and cry and tell us that's not fair? I'm going to point to threads just like this one, and posts just like this one, and I'm going to say the following words:

"Not cackling now, are ya?"

[CDLord HHGD]

1453 R, on 17 March 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

I'm going to say this to all the Spheroid players out there cackling like mad and pointing fingers at the Bad Naughty Evil Clanners over this whole CXL nerf debate.

G'head. We'll take the 20% speed reduction. We'll take it and make it work, though after this I'm going to have to ask you folks to leave the CXL alone. 20% speed loss is kind of a big deal, and unlike your own technology base, Clan 'Mechs are locked into their XL engines even when they have extremely XL-unfriendly hitboxes (Warhawk, looking at you), or when they're locked into a very bad CXL weight (did someone hear a Gargoyle calling?).

And when your Light Fusion Engines come out, and you can pick whatever LFE rating you want for your 'Mech, and you can slap that engine in your 'Mech in its dynamically shifting structural uprades that go wherever you weren't using that space anyways, around your rotary autocannons and your forty-tube MRM launchers and your X-pulse lasers and your C3 networks and all those other things you guys have coming that the Clans never get an answer to?

Well, when you lose a shoulder on those LFEs, you're going to lose 20% of your heat cap, dissipation, and movement speed, too. And when you raise a hue and cry and tell us that's not fair? I'm going to point to threads just like this one, and posts just like this one, and I'm going to say the following words:

"Not cackling now, are ya?"

No need to cackle if both sides make perfect sense to occur. I would expect LFE to have penalties too. Right now though, here's how it is:

CXL, lose a side torso, keep fighting.
ISXL, lose a side torso, DIE.

[Yokaiko]

cdlord, on 17 March 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

No need to cackle if both sides make perfect sense to occur. I would expect LFE to have penalties too. Right now though, here's how it is:

CXL, lose a side torso, keep fighting.
ISXL, lose a side torso, DIE.

Except that you are still ignoring that IS can CHANGE their damn engines.

[WarZ]

For a while now I've been thinking a fantastic way to make IS mechs on par with clan is to give them the clan mechanic xl engines. Where if you lose one ST you dont automatically die. Make them just like clans and balance becomes very close without quirks. Plus it makes sense. You are still more vulnerable, just not nearly as much as they are now. Currently on IS mechs I more often choose a standard engine because the current lose 1 ST mechanic is severely discouraging. If you need to lose both, you can still die to double ST and to CT. Therefore increased vulnerability. Just not as much as we have now. It would be more fair, and suddenly the IS mechs are a far far more serious threat. Other restrictions as noted might be necessary because of the effectiveness increase.

But I'm all for it.

Oh and for the record, I oppose nerfing clan movement.

Edited by WarZ, 18 March 2015 - 07:11 PM.

[1453 R]

cdlord, on 17 March 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

No need to cackle if both sides make perfect sense to occur. I would expect LFE to have penalties too. Right now though, here's how it is:

CXL, lose a side torso, keep fighting.
ISXL, lose a side torso, DIE.

Missed one.

CXL: lose a side torso, keep fighting with reduced heat handling capabilities.
ISXL: lose a side torso, die.
ISSTD: lose a side torso, laugh at your incompetent enemies and use it as free damage reduction for your CT.

Recall that the Clan technology base is balanced around a number of additional factors that the Spheroid tech base doesn't have to deal with - or are you saying you have no problem with me switching my Gargoyles down to 350CXLs, axing all six of those pointless engine-mounted fixed DHS, switching Endo in over the Ferro, and demanding Piranha give me the massive hardpoint inflation all Spheroid 'Mechs get?

Yes, Spheroid XL engines die if their lose a shoulder. Anyone else think that maybe the Clans have paid for at least a portion of that durability elsewhere, with bad locked internals and severe hardpoint deficits?

[CDLord HHGD]

1453 R, on 17 March 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Missed one.

CXL: lose a side torso, keep fighting with reduced heat handling capabilities.
ISXL: lose a side torso, die.
ISSTD: lose a side torso, laugh at your incompetent enemies and use it as free damage reduction for your CT.

Recall that the Clan technology base is balanced around a number of additional factors that the Spheroid tech base doesn't have to deal with - or are you saying you have no problem with me switching my Gargoyles down to 350CXLs, axing all six of those pointless engine-mounted fixed DHS, switching Endo in over the Ferro, and demanding Piranha give me the massive hardpoint inflation all Spheroid 'Mechs get?

Yes, Spheroid XL engines die if their lose a shoulder. Anyone else think that maybe the Clans have paid for at least a portion of that durability elsewhere, with bad locked internals and severe hardpoint deficits?

You're discounting the effect of the weight of the engine. Sure, the ISSTD can lose a side and keep laughing, if it has any effective weapons left. STD+SPD=less weapons or armor.

[Mcgral18]

Yokaiko, on 17 March 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

Except that you are still ignoring that IS can CHANGE their damn engines.

Yeah, they don't seem to get that part.


I'd gladly take an isXL in the Mist Lynx, since it would mean I could run 160KPh+ with JJs and 4 lasers.

[CyclonerM]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 March 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

-snip-

Indeed. A LOT of issues in MWO, imho, derive from advantages and perks of 'Mechs, weapons etc. not translating in MWO.

Examples?

-LBX: why would you take one in MWO, you might say? It is because it does not have switchable ammo. I think LBX ACs are supposed to be upgrades and better than regular ACs and UACs after all.

-Gargoyle. "The GAR Prime is useless!!" Well, you know what? The other day i played a stock only duel with a Clan mate, using BT armor values. We were using BV to balance the 'Mechs. And i noticed the Prime has about the same BV as the Kit Fox A!! So for the same BW of a light you can take that Assault, trading speed for armor. It was very deadly against a stock 3025 tech Banshee , as it was supposed to be, but that is another topic. I do not ask you to face my Timber Wolf in a 3025 Catapult with BT armor values, that would be too much for anyone

-Battlemechs vs Omnimechs: IS mechs should pay for their customizability with all the difficulties that we mentioned, etc. So instead of making up systems and nerfs, selectively choosing rules to nerf Clans while buffing already powerful quirked Star League-level IS 'Mechs... We could just use some of the factors that balance them in TT! I do not ask you to wait months to mount an Endo-Steel structure in your 'Mech, of course.. Even waiting 5 minutes in MWO would be more of an annoyance than a fix. If this was a single player game like MW4 Mercs, waiting for mechs to be repaired could work well, too.

However, there are other factors we could use. R&R could play a role here. Each customization could take some c-bills, more for a Battlemechs, to simulate the expenses. Techs to level up could be a nice touch and another money sink ("more money sinks?!" Oh well, i have some ideas for more rewards in CW that could help with that.. ).

On a similar note, it would be great if we could actually see the map we are dropping in .. But only OmniMechs should be able to be customized after you know the map, if that is technically possible (example, in CW queque) but only switching pods, which would take only a few hours and could be made on the DropShip burning toward the target planet (or another target area).

Think outside the box!

[Kristov Kerensky]

Yokaiko, on 17 March 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

Except that you are still ignoring that IS can CHANGE their damn engines.

Yes, they can, because OmniMechs don't get to do that, it's the 'Balance' that FASA put into BTech with the introduction of the Clans. OmniMechs can change weapons literally before you start engagement in PnP, IS Mechs can't, it's a HUGE advantage. As I said, it's not as huge in MWO, but if PGI would allow ALL Omnimechs to have pods that carry ALL weapon types, it would be a bigger advantage over what it currently is, which is still better than any IS Mech can hope to attain.

Doesn't mean as much in MWO, but I like CyclonerM's idea about letting Clans swap out PODs which they can pre-configure, after they know which maps they are dropping on for CW, damn good idea really, you should put that in the Suggestions section.

Other little thing about OmniPods, if I want to get ballistics on my Stalker, I have to literally spend real world money to buy the Misery, there's literally no other way to get that variant. Or how about I want the ballistic on my Atlas to be in the arm instead of the side torso, nothing I can do about that, just doesn't exist. My Dire, I want ballistics on my arm, no worries, side torso, no worries, I don't have to buy anything but an OmniPod, which costs a hell of a lot less than buying another entire MECH variant because I want a different weapon type or placement option. Clan players never mention that little bit at all, notice that?

And, last but not least, for now...all of you WHINING about not being able to swap that engine in your Mist Lynx or Adder or Dire Wolf, you got no one to blame but YOURSELF. PGI told us before the release of the Wave 1 pack, engines are NOT open to change on OmniMechs. I know people who got their money refunded for that alone, so it's not like this was a secret that was suddenly popped on us the day of release or got changed sometime after release. And I see some of the people complaining about THIS facet of the OmniMechs are not wearing the IS tags they had a week or two ago, suddenly they are wearing Clan tags here. Huh...go figure...we've known for months now about the no changing the engines bit, you were IS, now you are Clan, and NOW it's an issue for you? That is pure bs. Clan faction who've BEEN Clan all along, you had your time to raise hell about the engines, but it seemed most were ok with it, after all, Clan toys ARE more powerful than IS toys, so..eh, who cares about being able to swap the engines... Until something comes along about balance, then suddenly it's 'we can't swap our engines, you don't know how bad that REALLY is, YOU try it!'. I've tried it, it ain't that bad, especially not when that engine I can't swap is an XL that does NOT kill my Mech when a torso side gets blown off. It'll drop my speed by 20% and decrease my cooling by 20% if it gets blown off soon? That's cool, it STILL beats the hell out of being dead for the same thing in an IS Mech. I've still got my Executioner pack coming, don't see any reason to get a refund, but you Clan players, hey, I seriously suggest you ALL cancel your Wave 3 packages NOW!

That'll show PGI that you are serious!
Not a joke kids, cancel your Wave 3 purchases now or kindly shut up.

[Ponyboy]

I am against further clan nerfs. Only the Timberwolf and the Stormcrow need nerfs to balance them. Some need love, i.e. the Summoner.

[SolCrusher]

Hit the clanners with the nerf bat! Need something to appease the Innersphere for the injustice that is the abominations of the Jager and Cataphract.

Edited by SolCrusher, 17 March 2015 - 02:12 PM.

[CyclonerM]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 March 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

Doesn't mean as much in MWO, but I like CyclonerM's idea about letting Clans swap out PODs which they can pre-configure, after they know which maps they are dropping on for CW, damn good idea really, you should put that in the Suggestions section.

Thank you However i think it would be a technical challenge, and IS players would cry because they cannot

Too many tears from each side..

p.s. If you like this kind of ideas, i am about to post a LOT of ideas for Phase 3, hurrying up since Russ apparently is finalizing their designs ..

Edited by CyclonerM, 17 March 2015 - 02:17 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 March 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

Yes, they can, because OmniMechs don't get to do that, it's the 'Balance' that FASA put into BTech with the introduction of the Clans. OmniMechs can change weapons literally before you start engagement in PnP, IS Mechs can't, it's a HUGE advantage. As I said, it's not as huge in MWO, but if PGI would allow ALL Omnimechs to have pods that carry ALL weapon types, it would be a bigger advantage over what it currently is, which is still better than any IS Mech can hope to attain.

Except this isn't FASA IS mechs are infinitely more customizable. OMNI pods are just a c-bill sink, if you change pods you don't even keep what is in them. it gets tossed into your inventory.

Factor in the quirks and there is already NO reason to drive the clan mechs, I can out laser a Stormcrow over about the same range....with an enforcer, out Dakka a Direwolf with a DRAGON of all things.....that by they way doesn't over heat, and doesn't ever jam. Even the "Timbergod" is literally three shot by a MPL Thunderbolt.

....and the rest of the mechs are effectively trash.
MLX LOOK MA NO ARMS....It overheats with its JUMPJETS
Cutefox? Only usefull as a Assualt ECM/Missile shield, neither of which you get paid for I may add.
IceFart? Fast, no space
Nova geometry makes it so that you succeed despite the mech instead of because of it.
Crow is solid
Hellbringer is solid
Mad Dog is basically made of paper, I mastered mine and put them away. Amusing in short bursts not good
Summorer, 21.5 tons of pod space in a 70 tonner....yeah
Gargoyle.....nothing PGI can do will save this thing.
Warhawk dies to the thrown of locks heatsinks (14 of them) and or terrible heat modling, there is no way to make x4 ER-PPCs work.

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 March 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

Doesn't mean as much in MWO, but I like CyclonerM's idea about letting Clans swap out PODs which they can pre-configure, after they know which maps they are dropping on for CW, damn good idea really, you should put that in the Suggestions section.

Which does nothing, you still need three variant, just change mechs, many already do, I certainly do on the IS side, but clan basically only has laser vommit and streak/light killer, so why bother.

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 March 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

Other little thing about OmniPods, if I want to get ballistics on my Stalker, I have to literally spend real world money to buy the Misery, there's literally no other way to get that variant. Or how about I want the ballistic on my Atlas to be in the arm instead of the side torso, nothing I can do about that, just doesn't exist. My Dire, I want ballistics on my arm, no worries, side torso, no worries, I don't have to buy anything but an OmniPod, which costs a hell of a lot less than buying another entire MECH variant because I want a different weapon type or placement option. Clan players never mention that little bit at all, notice that?

Yeah ever Drive a whale? It turns like a truck and is locked into that 53kph speed with tweek, no one uses them in CW because they are too slow FOR DEFENSE

Kristov Kerensky, on 17 March 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

And, last but not least, for now...all of you WHINING about not being able to swap that engine in your Mist Lynx or Adder or Dire Wolf, you got no one to blame but YOURSELF. PGI told us before the release of the Wave 1 pack, engines are NOT open to change on OmniMechs. I know people who got their money refunded for that alone, so it's not like this was a secret that was suddenly popped on us the day of release or got changed sometime after release. And I see some of the people complaining about THIS facet of the OmniMechs are not wearing the IS tags they had a week or two ago, suddenly they are wearing Clan tags here. Huh...go figure...we've known for months now about the no changing the engines bit, you were IS, now you are Clan, and NOW it's an issue for you? That is pure bs. Clan faction who've BEEN Clan all along, you had your time to raise hell about the engines, but it seemed most were ok with it, after all, Clan toys ARE more powerful than IS toys, so..eh, who cares about being able to swap the engines... Until something comes along about balance, then suddenly it's 'we can't swap our engines, you don't know how bad that REALLY is, YOU try it!'. I've tried it, it ain't that bad, especially not when that engine I can't swap is an XL that does NOT kill my Mech when a torso side gets blown off. It'll drop my speed by 20% and decrease my cooling by 20% if it gets blown off soon? That's cool, it STILL beats the hell out of being dead for the same thing in an IS Mech. I've still got my Executioner pack coming, don't see any reason to get a refund, but you Clan players, hey, I seriously suggest you ALL cancel your Wave 3 packages NOW!

That'll show PGI that you are serious!
Not a joke kids, cancel your Wave 3 purchases now or kindly shut up.

Drama queen much.

[KraftySOT]

To be fair, you cant change an engine in the TT in the IS either, and its not something that was meant to 'balance the clans against the IS'.

It was a rule so people didnt munchkin and start claiming they could switch out their engines. It was a preventative rule in an era where if it wasnt expressly forbidden, it would happen.

[CrushLibs]

11 med IS mechs , 3 clan

9 Assault IS mechs , 3 clan

[Sn0wman G18]

ok well lets just do some weapon comparisons on the op clan weapons,

Ac's up to 5 rounds = damage spread, no pinpoint like IS, longer exposure time = more damage taken, but, clans get uac up to ac20, (uac 20 is useless) so we'll call that roughly even

lrms = stream fired, easier for ams to destroy much easier to torso twist/spread the damage
Srm's = clan 2.00 dps and damage per heat, IS 2.32 dps and damage per heat (info off smurfies) now u can argue the ssrm 6 break balance, however with the big speed advantage IS lights have over clan lights, evens it out alot,

now for lasers, clans have range (normally quirks push afew of is over clan range) however that range is paid for in heat,
so long range advantage clan, close range advantage goes to IS (for sustained firepower), now other then boreal the remaining cw maps can force all engagements to close range brawls,

oh also is have lots of mechs with high mounted hard points, clans carry most in there arms, it must be nice to use that impenetrable ridge as armor :/
group up, play ur mech and have fun, i've been in 12mans facing, IS 12mans, there is no "oh were gonna win no problem" mentality, currently its, "well they thunderbolts and stalkers, push into them, take away there range advantage, only to play into there heat advantage", there are plenty of pros and cons to both sides, stop tryin to nerf clans, and play the game,
clan or IS if ur in cw, grp up or get run over simple as that,

[Kristov Kerensky]

Yokaiko, on 17 March 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

Except this isn't FASA IS mechs are infinitely more customizable. OMNI pods are just a c-bill sink, if you change pods you don't even keep what is in them. it gets tossed into your inventory.

Factor in the quirks and there is already NO reason to drive the clan mechs, I can out laser a Stormcrow over about the same range....with an enforcer, out Dakka a Direwolf with a DRAGON of all things.....that by they way doesn't over heat, and doesn't ever jam. Even the "Timbergod" is literally three shot by a MPL Thunderbolt.

....and the rest of the mechs are effectively trash.
MLX LOOK MA NO ARMS....It overheats with its JUMPJETS
Cutefox? Only usefull as a Assualt ECM/Missile shield, neither of which you get paid for I may add.
IceFart? Fast, no space
Nova geometry makes it so that you succeed despite the mech instead of because of it.
Crow is solid
Hellbringer is solid
Mad Dog is basically made of paper, I mastered mine and put them away. Amusing in short bursts not good
Summorer, 21.5 tons of pod space in a 70 tonner....yeah
Gargoyle.....nothing PGI can do will save this thing.
Warhawk dies to the thrown of locks heatsinks (14 of them) and or terrible heat modling, there is no way to make x4 ER-PPCs work.



Which does nothing, you still need three variant, just change mechs, many already do, I certainly do on the IS side, but clan basically only has laser vommit and streak/light killer, so why bother.



Yeah ever Drive a whale? It turns like a truck and is locked into that 53kph speed with tweek, no one uses them in CW because they are too slow FOR DEFENSE



Drama queen much.

If your assertions are so right, why am I not seeing more and more Clan planets going IS? I mean, you just, literally, shot down every Clan Mech and made them all to be total trash, so why isn't the IS controlling the entire map already? Why haven't they at LEAST taken back a portion of the planets lost?

Oh, yeah, because that's not exactly how it works out now is it.

I do drive a Whale actually, one of my favorites in the Saults actually, IS or Clan, going back to the PnP game. It's big, it's slow, it's a lumbering giant walking arsenal, exactly as it's supposed to be. No, it's not real good for Defense in CW, pretty damn nasty as Offense though, seen more than a few of them being used, tend to be extremely effective at fast kills at ranges the IS can't touch. Seems some folks actually buy weapon modules, go figure right!

Drama queen? I'm not the one who needs to be handing out crackers and cheese over a change that should have always been in place. You DO realize the loss of cooling has been in for the Clans for a bit already, right? Seems most of the Clan pilots weren't even aware of this, they think it's coming with the speed loss...gee, seems that that HUGE hit they'll be taking isn't even noticed by them while it's already happening. Who exactly needs that crown again?

I'm quite serious, if you don't approve of these changes show PGI you mean it, cancel your Wave 3 pre-order and get a refund, and make CLEAR that this is exactly why you are doing it.

You people really think you can make your case with the forums or twitter or reddit? You DO realize that you appear to be rather outnumbered by the people, both IS AND CLAN, who think these changes are for the better, so your screaming on these outlets won't matter.

No, you need to use the REAL power you have in regards to PGI, your wallet. Cancel the purchase of your Wave 3 package, get your money refunded. PGI can't help but hear that, and if enough of you do it, you might even get your way.

Until then, can you change that cheese out, it's getting a bit crusty.