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Petition To Stop Clan St Loss Nerf.

Balance BattleMechs Gameplay

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#421 WarZ

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:25 PM

View PostKristov Kerensky, on 26 March 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:


Only the Spider huh? What about the Raven, which had really bad hitboxes, didn't drive those for a while due to that issue, same as I won't drive my Firestarters until they get fixed. I refuse to use a bugged Mech, it's an exploit and you pick up bad habits relying on something that shouldn't be there


After the bulls*** meter on my forum'mometer spiked to maximum and I laughed long and hard ... you ended up losing any bit of credibility I was giving you to that point. Buh bye.

#422 WarZ

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:29 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 26 March 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

If it had Endo, it could move to an XL300, put 2 DHS in there


Thats IF the theoretical xl300 you could potentially put on that nova did not come nerfed and they blocked you from putting in any DHS at all ... like say ... oh yea that xl330 on the SCR that should be able to mount 3 DHS in engine, BUT cannot ...

;)

#423 Mcgral18

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:31 PM

View PostWarZ, on 26 March 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:


Thats IF the theoretical xl300 you could potentially put on that nova did not come nerfed and they blocked you from putting in any DHS at all ... like say ... oh yea that xl330 on the SCR that should be able to mount 3 DHS in engine, BUT cannot ...

;)


That's due to the whole hardwired issue thing. If you can change the engine and add Endo, I think that rule goes out the door...like on every IS robot.

The Nova could even stick with Table Top engine sizes, MP*tonnage. 200, 250, 300 or 350 etc...

#424 WarZ

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:36 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 26 March 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:


That's due to the whole hardwired issue thing. If you can change the engine and add Endo, I think that rule goes out the door...like on every IS robot.

The Nova could even stick with Table Top engine sizes, MP*tonnage. 200, 250, 300 or 350 etc...


Agreed, I was being somewhat facetious :) I would hope that the Nova could get full slots in that possible example.

#425 Mcgral18

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:38 PM

View PostWarZ, on 26 March 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:


Agreed, I was being somewhat facetious :) I would hope that the Nova could get full slots in that possible example.


It's never going to happen, just as the Mist Lynx will never have 10 TrueDubs or run 150+Kph.

It's nice to believe, though.

#426 Deathlike

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:40 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 26 March 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:


That's due to the whole hardwired issue thing. If you can change the engine and add Endo, I think that rule goes out the door...like on every IS robot.

The Nova could even stick with Table Top engine sizes, MP*tonnage. 200, 250, 300 or 350 etc...


MW2 had it done right for engine options.

The trades made some sense (although, a Timberwolf with a 300XL would do a lot more nastier things, though being slower).

Heck, if I could downgrade a Gargles to a 320XL... then there would be Happy Days!



#427 Kristov Kerensky

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 02:52 PM

View PostWarZ, on 26 March 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:


Deflection move ? Like when you replied to my post (and others) with a big wall of text that did NOTHING to address the issues I raised and that you replied too ? I pointed out many of the already nerfed qualities clan mechs suffer from, and you happily glossed over everything but 1 item. And even then you didnt even address what I put forth, just side tracked off about TT rules.

The only deflections I see going on are with your posts. Reinforcing TT rules decisions, but ignoring / not understanding how they actually come into play with our NON TT version called MWO.

TT was one thing. MWO is a very different beast. As we can see they are not meshing very well.


You need to reread my post, I did address your statements, I even agreed with you on some of them, but I don't agree with all of them. Locked hardware is the balancing factor in place for Clan OmniMechs, just like it will be for IS OmniMechs when they get added, it is just a built in balancing factor that works well enough to not mess with it. It's the ONLY balancing factor FASA did for the Clan OmniMechs when they were added to BTech, there is no reason to toss it out since it DOES actually work. Don't forget, there are Clan BattleMechs as well as OmniMechs, we just haven't gotten those yet, we will though. As long as they avoid the hardpoint inflation they've done with the IS, they shouldn't need to do anything else to those, and that means full customization like the IS Mechs have. And I also think the IS Mechs should be redone on hardpoints, WAY too much inflation on those, and it usually makes NO godsbedamned sense either.

Yes, some of the engines don't get the extra sinks they should, yell at PGI about that, it would help a few of the Clan Mechs that don't get them, and I DID say some of the Clan Mechs need to be buffed, along with saying the OmniPods need to be OMNI, not this restricted weapon system bs we have now, that will help as well. I've also stated the heat on Clan Lasers needs to be dropped, it's too high, they are supposed to run hot, true enough, but they should NOT fry the pilot when you fire them like they do now. There's been too many nerfs blindly tossed on the Clans, too many things that they should have had out of the box altered for reasons I don't understand but will guess were 'balance' things. I think they fail, they neuter the Clan OmniMechs too far with the weapon nerfs, but the Clan XL change, that I think is fully in line, you do to. This discussion is about the Clan XL proposals, not everything else that Clan Mechs need, I also think they need to be unnerfed in other areas, mainly weapons heat and OmniPod usability.

Oh, and the Raven, it had buggy hitboxes, while it didn't have the holes the Spider had, they were buggy, just like the Firestarter and SCrow have. Buggy can be any number of things, holes in the model is just the most obvious, but hardly the only way to have buggy hitboxes. Bad vertices, bad mapping, overlapping polys, the list goes on. The Raven's were fixed, so were the Spider's, we're now waiting on the Firestarter and SCrow to get theirs fixed. Funny how you guys keep trying to say there's NOTHING wrong with the SCrow and try to state the Firestarter's only issue it hitreg and speed. Funny, I've got Mechs that move faster and aren't immune to incoming damage like the Firestarter. One of my CO's drives the SCrow, and he noticed the hitbox issue right away, thought it was funny considering that he also loves the Raven and realized real fast it had issues, same as I realized the Spider had them, as that was my Light of choice at the time. Sorry guys, but when you are standing still and catch multiple AC20s or gauss to the face and don't die in a Raven or Spider and you think nothing is wrong, that's just totally messed up thinking. Same with the Firestarter and SCrow, if you drive them and don't think it's wrong how much you can take without dropping, well...

#428 Adamski

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:01 PM

The locked construction rules were only a balancing factor when combined with BV matching.

Since this game uses tonnage and pilot matching, the locked construction rules are pointless (unless you trust PGI to do enough with quirks, which I don't)

#429 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:08 PM

im still hoping they give Clan ether Endo or unlock JJ,

#430 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:23 PM

View PostAdamski, on 26 March 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

The locked construction rules were only a balancing factor when combined with BV matching.

Since this game uses tonnage and pilot matching, the locked construction rules are pointless (unless you trust PGI to do enough with quirks, which I don't)

hey, here's a thought, Clans get unlocked construction and IS gets Omni pod chassis so we can mix and match hardpoints. Fiar deal?

#431 Mcgral18

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:24 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

hey, here's a thought, Clans get unlocked construction and IS gets Omni pod chassis so we can mix and match hardpoints. Fiar deal?


That does come at the cost of hardpoint inflation....tough deal for many robots.

#432 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:25 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 26 March 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:


That does come at the cost of hardpoint inflation....tough deal for many robots.

Nope. Because clans still get 7 crit Endo/FF, 2 crit DHS, Immortal XLs, without even touching the can of worms called weapon comparos.

Hardpoint inflation seems a fair tradeoff for the inferior cores.

I mean, if we're actually talking about like...IDK....balance?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 26 March 2015 - 03:26 PM.


#433 Adamski

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:27 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

hey, here's a thought, Clans get unlocked construction and IS gets Omni pod chassis so we can mix and match hardpoints. Fiar deal?


That's only fair if you think IS mechs are more limited by hardpoints than tonnage and equipment limitations of IS tech.

#434 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:29 PM

View PostAdamski, on 26 March 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:


That's only fair if you think IS mechs are more limited by hardpoints than tonnage and equipment limitations of IS tech.

so it's fair that Clans would get unlocked customization with better endo, ferro, XLs, and DHS?

#435 Gyrok

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:31 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

Nope. Because clans still get 7 crit Endo/FF, 2 crit DHS, Immortal XLs, without even touching the can of worms called weapon comparos.

Hardpoint inflation seems a fair tradeoff for the inferior cores.

I mean, if we're actually talking about like...IDK....balance?


IS have LFEs coming at some point, plus Omnimechs in the future that incorporate those LFEs into the builds.

In fact, some IS Omnimechs have regular IS XLs too. So the harder you push to nerf clans, the more obsolete you make your own future tech to the battlemechs you have now.

Who would drive a Templar with a regular IS XL playing by omnimech construction rules as they are? The Templar is even one of the better Omnimechs in the 3055-3060 tech era...

#436 Adamski

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:46 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

so it's fair that Clans would get unlocked customization with better endo, ferro, XLs, and DHS?


....yes, because they already have mechs with all the upgrades and reasonable engine sizes. So I want to bring ALL Clan mechs to the same baseline, and bring ALL IS mechs there with quirks.

The Summoner should be a close fight for a Timberwolf,and the Nova for a Stormcrow. Then IS quirks and Clan equipment nerfs (such as the cXL upcoming nerf) bring everyone to the same level.

#437 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:53 PM

View PostGyrok, on 26 March 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:


IS have LFEs coming at some point, plus Omnimechs in the future that incorporate those LFEs into the builds.

In fact, some IS Omnimechs have regular IS XLs too. So the harder you push to nerf clans, the more obsolete you make your own future tech to the battlemechs you have now.

Who would drive a Templar with a regular IS XL playing by omnimech construction rules as they are? The Templar is even one of the better Omnimechs in the 3055-3060 tech era...

Awesome, some day, IS gets mechs with the survivability of Clan XLs...but weigh 2/3 as much as std, instead of half.

While still having 3 crit DHS. 14 crit Endo. Etc.

View PostAdamski, on 26 March 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:


....yes, because they already have mechs with all the upgrades and reasonable engine sizes. So I want to bring ALL Clan mechs to the same baseline, and bring ALL IS mechs there with quirks.

The Summoner should be a close fight for a Timberwolf,and the Nova for a Stormcrow. Then IS quirks and Clan equipment nerfs (such as the cXL upcoming nerf) bring everyone to the same level.

those 2 things are not even remotely related. SO because IS mechs can have different size engines that balances inferior XLs, Endo, Ferro, etc?

#438 Adamski

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 04:05 PM

I'm not sure what it is you are not understanding.

Timberwolf / Stormcrow / Ebon Jaguar / Shadow Cat / Arctic Cheetah

They all have cXL, cEndo, cFerro

Unlocking the mechlab will not help them, unless they get unlocked engines too (I think a restricton of within 25 engine rating of their default engine is fair)

Mechs it will help: Kit Fox, Adder, Mist Lynx, Nova, Ice Ferret, Summoner, Hell Bringer, Mad Dog, Gargoyle (might help the Warhawk, Direwolf, they are mostly more space constrained than weight constrained).

The big bonus is this is a huge buff to Clans, but doesn't buff the strong mechs AT ALL. But it does mean that if/when they decide to nerf the cGauss it wont hurt underperforming mechs, because there aren't any.

#439 CrushLibs

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 04:17 PM

Depending on how high up the food chain the stock engine is should regulate what the clam mech can and can't do.

Puma should be able to go up 5 -10 engine sizes 25-50 but a TW at 375 is pretty much maxed out and should stay at or below 385 and not be able to go below 350.

97 kph for any light is stupid slow

#440 LordKnightFandragon

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 04:30 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Awesome, some day, IS gets mechs with the survivability of Clan XLs...but weigh 2/3 as much as std, instead of half.

While still having 3 crit DHS. 14 crit Endo. Etc.


IS mechs either run out of space or tons, but never do they have enough of each.

LFE/Endo and FF, save all that weight, lose it all to crits, have tons left over, no space for anything.

JUst LFE, lots of space, no tons. Poor IS.

And when I make IS mechs in Smurfy, I always feel like im missing that little something extra that would make it a mech Iwouldnt feel bad driving.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 26 March 2015 - 04:30 PM.






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