716 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 March 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:

While I see no need for the STD to get any "xtras", I'd have to point out that the being half the weight of a std, AND not dying to ST destruction, is a pretty big bonus, already.......

No that is only a bonus if you also have the right size of an Xl. if you only have half decent speed the XL is pointless. in which Is lights would you use a clan XL if you would only be allowed to use its stock size?

tell me please.

[Karl Streiger]

Gyrok, on 27 March 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

You mean you self entitled IS whiners want what is already the most durable engine in the entire game to get a bonus? WTF?

By that logic, what kind of bonus should Clan XLs get, since they are the second most durable engine, it should be a bigger bonus than the IS STD right?

You should read the whole stuff
when IS XL don't pop - but got the "20% heat speed what ever you clan tubie call nerf" + a temporary shut down - its in 99% a no brainer to mount the IS XL - so you need to make the STD more attractive.

And last not least i don't believe your whining - "we would take a STD when we could - i call BS"
Bishop should ask Russ to - drop the ShadowCat and the Executioner -or better the Stormcrow and the DireWolf and add the Stooping Hawk and the Kingfisher

for guys that did have piloted IS mechs a year ago i would expect some knowledge - how dangerous is a Mech with bot STs gone? HUHU fear my both MLAS? Or my Head MLAS? Oh wait i can still charge?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 27 March 2015 - 06:03 AM.

[Gyrok]

Karl Streiger, on 27 March 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

You should read the whole stuff
when IS XL don't pop - but got the "20% heat speed what ever you clan tubie call nerf" + a temporary shut down - its in 99% a no brainer to mount the IS XL - so you need to make the STD more attractive.

And last not least i don't believe your whining - "we would take a STD when we could - i call BS"
Bishop should ask Russ to - drop the ShadowCat and the Executioner -or better the Stormcrow and the DireWolf and add the Stooping Hawk and the Kingfisher

for guys that did have piloted IS mechs a year ago i would expect some knowledge - how dangerous is a Mech with bot STs gone? HUHU fear my both MLAS? Or my Head MLAS? Oh wait i can still charge?

Centurion is brutal as a zombie after RA is gone, you can even get a ERLL in there if you want, or 2 MPLs, so is SHD-2D2 with SRM10 in CT and Head

Edited by Gyrok, 27 March 2015 - 06:07 AM.

[CrushLibs]

IS gets some of the following advantages:
1. engine swapping
2. armor swapping
3. endo swapping
4. pin point ballastic
5. longer SRM range 34 - 39m extra (depending on quirks)
6. much longer ER laser range (depending on quirks)
7. much longer EP PPC range (depending on quirks)
8. shorter laser duration
9. Better heat to damage DPH
10. Better ghost heat -- 3 LL vs 2LL
11. No ghost heat -- AC2,5,10,guass,LBX10,UAC5,Med Pulse L,Small pulse L, small L
12. Faster cool down times + quirks too
13. multi light mechs with 150 kph top speeds
14. removable JJs
15. smaller hit boxes
16. top mounted weapons vs arm (ie TDR , Jeg , stalker , etc)
17. faster assualts , med and lights
18. lower heat generation up to -50%

Pjwned, on 26 March 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

You're forgetting about a dozen other advantages for clans, and several of those IS advantages you listed are basically nothing or even just misleading and wrong.

A dozen ?? ok list them which several misleading and wrong ? Give examples?

I should have listed 6. lighter weapons 7. less crit space OK 10 more to go. Let's see it

More interested in this “misleading & wrong” statement

[Johnny Z]

Gyrok, on 27 March 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

Centurion is brutal as a zombie after RA is gone, you can even get a ERLL in there if you want, or 2 MPLs, so is SHD-2D2 with SRM10 in CT and Head

Really? An inner sphere mech with no arms or side torso's and a single ERLL is "brutal"?

No wonder some clan players concept of balance is so skewed.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Koniving, first off, this isn't a critical hit penalty, this is a complete side torso containing XL engine slots destruction. Lets keep perspective on the reality, not on what people are TRYING to make it to be that is not.

IS XL, loss of the side torso = death
Clan XL, loss of the side torso = 20% cooling loss currently

Russ's proposed change is to add a 10-20% speed drop along with the current 20% cooling loss, because PGI's data shows the cooling loss hit is have 0 effect across the board. The Clans are regularly outperforming the IS compared to Clan vs Clan and IS vs IS stats, and the amount they are outperforming the IS is higher than PGI wants to see.

THAT is the reality of the situation, PGI came up with this change, it's their call based on the data from the actual game. It's not a player created and/or demanded change because Clams OP! It's not based on biased opinions and observations of players. It's based on the actual game data that PGI has and PGI doesn't like what it is showing them.

Lets try and keep that in view while discussing this, please. Gyrok and his crew's calls of 'no skill players' making the claims are a smokescreen, one he's been trying to push on the forums in multiple different threads now. He constantly makes it clear that it's JUST the PUGs and no skilled ISers who HIS team has stomped all over that are crying and whining for these nerfs. Seriously, he's stated that, along with stating that his Clan Wolf team has a 90% win ratio in CW, so he KNOWS it's just the no skilled ISers who are screaming for the nerfs.

Oh, and Gyrok also calls the JJ animation fix a nerf for the TWolf, so lets keep some perspective shall we and look at who is saying what and why.

Personally, I'm all for actual engine criticals, but that's NOT what this change is, it's a complete destruction of the ST containing a Clan XL effect. Tear all that armor off, hit those critical slots, nothing is going to happen, just as it currently does, we have NO engine criticals in MWO at all, not for the IS nor for the Clans. Not much point trying to say the Clans get engine criticals applied to them when they don't, no one does.

[Karl Streiger]

CrushLibs, on 27 March 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

IS gets some of the following advantages:
1. engine swapping
2. armor swapping
3. endo swapping
4. pin point ballastic
5. longer SRM range 34 - 39m extra (depending on quirks)
6. much longer ER laser range (depending on quirks)
7. much longer EP PPC range (depending on quirks)
8. shorter laser duration
9. Better heat to damage DPH
10. Better ghost heat -- 3 LL vs 2LL
11. No ghost heat -- AC2,5,10,guass,LBX10,UAC5,Med Pulse L,Small pulse L, small L
12. Faster cool down times + quirks too
13. multi light mechs with 150 kph top speeds
14. removable JJs
15. smaller hit boxes
16. top mounted weapons vs arm (ie TDR , Jeg , stalker , etc)
17. faster assualts , med and lights
18. lower heat generation up to -50%

1. solid engine
2. lighter compacter FF
3. compacter ES
4. ballistics that could do walk fire - better chance to hit anything
5. ligher SRMs - could have 2 for the price of 1
6. Lasers with almost the power of IS Large Laser weighting 1ton
7. splash damage (its there don't deny it)
8. longer burn duration - better chance to hit anything
9. better damage per second
10. more alpha damage without GHost Heat - 6xERMLaser
11. No Ghost Heat LBX20, Ultra2 LBX10
12. faster heat dissipation
13. multi heavy mechs with >80 kph
14. swapable weapon pods
15. smaller hitbox - Koshi legs
16. head mounted ER Large Laser,
17. better armed assaults, meds lights
18. better heat capacity to the huge heatsink load

[Johnny Z]

Karl Streiger, on 27 March 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

1. solid engine
2. lighter compacter FF
3. compacter ES
4. ballistics that could do walk fire - better chance to hit anything
5. ligher SRMs - could have 2 for the price of 1
6. Lasers with almost the power of IS Large Laser weighting 1ton
7. splash damage (its there don't deny it)
8. longer burn duration - better chance to hit anything
9. better damage per second
10. more alpha damage without GHost Heat - 6xERMLaser
11. No Ghost Heat LBX20, Ultra2 LBX10
12. faster heat dissipation
13. multi heavy mechs with >80 kph
14. swapable weapon pods
15. smaller hitbox - Koshi legs
16. head mounted ER Large Laser,
17. better armed assaults, meds lights
18. better heat capacity to the huge heatsink load

19. free weaight and space CASE
20. 15 damage CERPPC's, vrs 10 damage ERPPC
21. Lighter Gauss
22. half wieght LRM's

[Metus regem]

Johnny Z, on 27 March 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

19. free weaight and space CASE

That is mostly pointless, as CASE really serves no purpose in MWO.

Quote

20. 15 damage CERPPC's, vrs 10 damage ERPPC

2.5/10/2.5 and either of those 2.5's can be lost if there is nothing in that location, like hit an arm, and you lose that damage. Also IS has the option to chose the normal PPC, for less heat. On top of that, many mechs see PPC family quirks that bring the heat of the ERPPC under 15.

Quote

21. Lighter Gauss

You got this one.

Quote

22. half wieght LRM's

That are more vulnerable to AMS, like dramatically so. On top of that, they are LRM's, LRM's are bad weapons in general. to binary, either they work well, or they are wasted space.

[Karl Streiger]

Hey of course those advantages are subjectiv.
But who said that this tubbie did want objektiv advantages.
Case in Clan Mechs for example arms and legs work or should work - think that is a really good point. If it doesn't it need a fix simple.

[Mcgral18]

Karl Streiger, on 27 March 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

Hey of course those advantages are subjectiv.
But who said that this tubbie did want objektiv advantages.
Case in Clan Mechs for example arms and legs work or should work - think that is a really good point. If it doesn't it need a fix simple.

Works for ammo, broken for Gauss. Should be fixed next patch. Maybe.

[Lily from animove]

when will ne of you make a proper pro and cons comparison? I guess IS pilots will never because they will suddenly see that not everythign is as good on clanside as they claim.

[Metus regem]

Lily from animove, on 27 March 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

when will ne of you make a proper pro and cons comparison? I guess IS pilots will never because they will suddenly see that not everythign is as good on clanside as they claim.

Lily, I've tried, and both sides come out rather even actually, it's not perfect symmetry, but rather asymmetrical balance... and a lot of people find that hard to accept, as they cannot see the forest for the trees so to speak.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Karl Streiger, on 27 March 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

4. ballistics that could do walk fire - better chance to hit anything
8. longer burn duration - better chance to hit anything

Please do not try to sell burst fire on ballistics and longer duration lasers as advantages.

[BreakinStuff]

Rouken, on 27 March 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

Please do not try to sell burst fire on ballistics and longer duration lasers as advantages.

My dual UAC/20s disagree with you.

violently.

[Metus regem]

BreakinStuff, on 27 March 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

My dual UAC/20s disagree with you.

violently.

When hit reg is in your favor and you can land all 80 damage in one spot...

I have done shots, with a cUAC 20, and only had 1 in 5 rounds register on the target...

[Mcgral18]

BreakinStuff, on 27 March 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

My dual UAC/20s disagree with you.

violently.

My WubShee laughs at you, then.

I took a dual UAC20 PeaceDove....it was laughably Terribad. AC20 projectile speed, 5 rounds, 4 damage each.

A single one at 20M can be effective, if you're targeting an assault mech.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

BreakinStuff, on 27 March 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

My dual UAC/20s disagree with you.

violently.

If your UAC/20s think they are better as burst fire instead of single shot then they do not understand how this game works.

[Adamski]

I've solo'd Timberwolves in my Nova and my Shadowhawk, some pilots are just bad.

I agree that Faction balance is fairly close overall, but there are a lot of mechs that still need a lot of help, and the very top performers could use a downward adjustment.

The ST loss adjustment is good balance for the cXL as a piece of equipment, but a nerf for underperforming Clan mechs. Which is why those underperforming Clan mechs need to have the CAUSE of their poor performance addressed.

Much like ECM getting a well deserved nerf would severely hurt a number of mechs that are built around it, but doesn't mean that ECM should be left alone.

[Zolaz]

Wait till the Arctic Cheater comes out. Then the Clans will have the best light, medium, heavy and assault. Hard to balance IS vs Clan when Clans have the best performing mechs.