716 replies to this topic

[Aethon]

I do not think most players realize what a big difference beam duration makes. It is a huge thing, especially when playing against players who know how to spread damage. This is why the extra damage on Clan lasers is often pointless, especially against smaller, faster targets, or ones that have not shut down.

The extra heat generated just makes them even worse.

[Gyrok]

Adamski, on 27 March 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Gyrok, just shut the FK up already. Yes, if you stack every single quirk and advantage on the same IS mech it would be overpowered, until that happens, just shut the FK up and go farm PUGs with your 12man.

No need to stack them, one good set of weapon quirks sees a traditional missile boat (BLR-1S) turned into a 4 ERLL boat, and be ridiculously effective with high mounts.

Not that I mind one less missile boat, but you are overlooking the fact that IS mechs boat weapon systems.

So, yes, it only takes 1 set of weapon quirks and most of the OP IS mechs currently have several for a single weapon system. To add, there are already many mechs with +25% range combined with cooldown, heat reduction, or beam duration quirks.

So, maybe you should actually know what you are talking about before posting the standard clamz OP mantra?

[Adamski]

Yes, almost every IS Mech gets an energy range bonus, and EVERY Clan Laser has at LEAST 10% more range, every clan Pulse laser has 50% more range than the IS version.

Not ONCE have I said Clans are OP, so maybe try reading posts instead of regurgitating your biases Gyrok.

[Metus regem]

Aethon, on 27 March 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

I do not think most players realize what a big difference beam duration makes. It is a huge thing, especially when playing against players who know how to spread damage. This is why the extra damage on Clan lasers is often pointless, especially against smaller, faster targets, or ones that have not shut down.

The extra heat generated just makes them even worse.

I've noticed it, since swapping to IS from Clans, the shorter durations is almost making the beams FLD. especially on the pulse family.

[Adamski]

And wow, 4 ERLL on a Battlemaster with nothing else, he sure wont be dead weight when everyone can out maneuver him and get into THEIR preferred weapon range and have much better alphas and sustained damage.

[CrushLibs]

CERL - 1.1 damage per heat
IS ERL - 1.13 damage per heat

Duration 1.25 vs 1.5

Add in range quirks IS better , add in heat generation quirk the dmg per heat goes up

The all powerfull CERML is a 1.17 dmg/heat vs a IS non ER med laser of 1.28 dmg/heat
at close range IS will win again.

[Gyrok]

Adamski, on 27 March 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

Yes, almost every IS Mech gets an energy range bonus, and EVERY Clan Laser has at LEAST 10% more range, every clan Pulse laser has 50% more range than the IS version.

Not when considering quirks. The clans have zero range advantage, with longer burn times and more heat. Explain how it is that when your beams do less damage overall, but more per tick, at greater range, for less heat where you are losing again?

Oh, weight, well...since you can adjust your engine/endo/ferro to suit your needs for tonnage/crits/speed, it sounds like you have all the tools in place to be flat out better.

Unless you are ignoring those facts to troll people who have already considered them...

[Adamski]

if .5s duration pulse lasers are FLD, does that mean we can add Clan UAC back to FLD?

[Gyrok]

Adamski, on 27 March 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

And wow, 4 ERLL on a Battlemaster with nothing else, he sure wont be dead weight when everyone can out maneuver him and get into THEIR preferred weapon range and have much better alphas and sustained damage.

Considering he could potentially move at 84 kph when the comparable Clan mech goes 71 kph...?

[Mcgral18]

Adamski, on 27 March 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

if .5s duration pulse lasers are FLD, does that mean we can add Clan UAC back to FLD?

Once they become hitscan.


WubShee is so brutal. 58 hitscan damage, half second burns. WubWolf almost compares, at more heat and less damage.

[Kristov Kerensky]

IS quirks are stupidly OP, I've said that repeatedly, they need to be totally redone and the range/cd's need to be removed and not added back. Heat production on a SPECIFIC weapon that fluff/lore mentions, that's acceptable. Quirks need to be MECH related, not weapon related.

Clan XL has nothing to do with weapons, if you are guys are done measuring your epeens, can we get back to the ACTUAL topic of this discussion, the Clan XL and how PGI has decided it's OP compared to the IS XL and needs to be further tweaked to give some detriment when a torso side is destroyed?

[Metus regem]

Kristov Kerensky, on 27 March 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

IS quirks are stupidly OP, I've said that repeatedly, they need to be totally redone and the range/cd's need to be removed and not added back. Heat production on a SPECIFIC weapon that fluff/lore mentions, that's acceptable. Quirks need to be MECH related, not weapon related.

Clan XL has nothing to do with weapons, if you are guys are done measuring your epeens, can we get back to the ACTUAL topic of this discussion, the Clan XL and how PGI has decided it's OP compared to the IS XL and needs to be further tweaked to give some detriment when a torso side is destroyed?

Honestly, at this point, I think if they offered the LFE in 50 engine size increments, that might be the best option. True not as weight saving as an XL, nor as durable as a Standard engine, a happy middle ground that could free up a bit of weight. I know my Battlemasters, Awesomes and Centurions would be all over them like a fat kid on cake.


100
150
200
250
300
350
400

That's 7 engines, at 75% of the weight of the standards of the same size, with the same loss functions as a clan XL, a happy medium.

[Stoned Prophet]

Gyrok, on 27 March 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

No need to stack them, one good set of weapon quirks sees a traditional missile boat (BLR-1S) turned into a 4 ERLL boat, and be ridiculously effective with high mounts.

Not that I mind one less missile boat, but you are overlooking the fact that IS mechs boat weapon systems.

So, yes, it only takes 1 set of weapon quirks and most of the OP IS mechs currently have several for a single weapon system. To add, there are already many mechs with +25% range combined with cooldown, heat reduction, or beam duration quirks.

So, maybe you should actually know what you are talking about before posting the standard clamz OP mantra?

Are you still whining about this? Dude, if you cant adapt to the side torso loss, you need to stop running XLs. You just want all your advantages and no one else better have any cause you needs to win. Let it go. Youre just plain wrong.

[Gyrok]

Kristov Kerensky, on 27 March 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

IS quirks are stupidly OP, I've said that repeatedly, they need to be totally redone and the range/cd's need to be removed and not added back. Heat production on a SPECIFIC weapon that fluff/lore mentions, that's acceptable. Quirks need to be MECH related, not weapon related.

Clan XL has nothing to do with weapons, if you are guys are done measuring your epeens, can we get back to the ACTUAL topic of this discussion, the Clan XL and how PGI has decided it's OP compared to the IS XL and needs to be further tweaked to give some detriment when a torso side is destroyed?

Thing is...a mobility nerf to a mech that is already crippled reduces TTK. Which is already low, and that mech is already more likely to die than his peers, simply because crippled mechs stick out, they smoke, they are visibly missing components...how does this do anything to change a balance issue?

Especially when we consider the fact that Clan engines/internals/etc. are locked into place....?

You cannot mess with the CXL engine without serious repercussions due to the build rules for omnimechs. Also, IS has omnimechs coming soon, what then?

Metus regem, on 27 March 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

Honestly, at this point, I think if they offered the LFE in 50 engine size increments, that might be the best option. True not as weight saving as an XL, nor as durable as a Standard engine, a happy middle ground that could free up a bit of weight. I know my Battlemasters, Awesomes and Centurions would be all over them like a fat kid on cake.


100
150
200
250
300
350
400

That's 7 engines, at 75% of the weight of the standards of the same size, with the same loss functions as a clan XL, a happy medium.

I would honestly be fine if they offered the LFE in all sizes, for the same cost as XL engines, with the same functionality. Go right ahead.

Stoned Prophet, on 27 March 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Are you still whining about this? Dude, if you cant adapt to the side torso loss, you need to stop running XLs. You just want all your advantages and no one else better have any cause you needs to win. Let it go. Youre just plain wrong.

Checks Stoned Prophet CW rank in profile, Checks own CW rank in profile. It seems you should play more CW and think about the effectiveness of IS at this point...

>.>
<.<

[Adamski]

So with LFE & ES & FF the IS will weigh more and be down 14 crits? And for that stripping off all the quirks would be balanced?

[Metus regem]

Gyrok, on 27 March 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Thing is...a mobility nerf to a mech that is already crippled reduces TTK. Which is already low, and that mech is already more likely to die than his peers, simply because crippled mechs stick out, they smoke, they are visibly missing components...how does this do anything to change a balance issue?

Especially when we consider the fact that Clan engines/internals/etc. are locked into place....?

You cannot mess with the CXL engine without serious repercussions due to the build rules for omnimechs. Also, IS has omnimechs coming soon, what then?



I would honestly be fine if they offered the LFE in all sizes, for the same cost as XL engines, with the same functionality. Go right ahead.



Checks Stoned Prophet CW rank in profile, Checks own CW rank in profile. It seems you should play more CW and think about the effectiveness of IS at this point...

>.>
<.<

Gyrok, I think the LFE's (light fusion engine) actually costs more than the XL...

Nope, a 280 LFE adds 5 million to the base cost of a 70t with a standard... not like the 7m added for an XL...

Adamski, on 27 March 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

So with LFE & ES & FF the IS will weigh more and be down 14 crits? And for that stripping off all the quirks would be balanced?

For the most part FF just isn't worth taking, too little savings for too much investment, hell even on Clan mechs with half slot FF, it's still too much for too little return.... But yea, I'd take ES and a LFE on my previously listed mechs in a heart beat.

[Stoned Prophet]

Kristov Kerensky, on 27 March 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

IS quirks are stupidly OP, I've said that repeatedly, they need to be totally redone and the range/cd's need to be removed and not added back. Heat production on a SPECIFIC weapon that fluff/lore mentions, that's acceptable. Quirks need to be MECH related, not weapon related.

Clan XL has nothing to do with weapons, if you are guys are done measuring your epeens, can we get back to the ACTUAL topic of this discussion, the Clan XL and how PGI has decided it's OP compared to the IS XL and needs to be further tweaked to give some detriment when a torso side is destroyed?

lol wut? You forget the quirks were added because mechs sucked? and now theyre decent so theyre OP? Do you even read what you write!?!?

[Mcgral18]

Stoned Prophet, on 27 March 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Are you still whining about this? Dude, if you cant adapt to the side torso loss, you need to stop running XLs. You just want all your advantages and no one else better have any cause you needs to win. Let it go. Youre just plain wrong.

isXL250 in the Myth Lynx? Yes please.

10 TrueDubs has nearly the same heat dissipation as 12 DHS with the 5 PoorDubs and 7 TrueDubs.



It would make that robot so much better.

Stoned Prophet, on 27 March 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

lol wut? You forget the quirks were added because mechs sucked? and now theyre decent so theyre OP? Do you even read what you write!?!?

Neither the Stalker nor the FS9 had quirks, they were still some of the better robots in the game. Then they got some good quirks.

Kinda silly how they got better quirks than the bad robots.

[Stoned Prophet]

Gyrok, on 27 March 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Thing is...a mobility nerf to a mech that is already crippled reduces TTK. Which is already low, and that mech is already more likely to die than his peers, simply because crippled mechs stick out, they smoke, they are visibly missing components...how does this do anything to change a balance issue?

Especially when we consider the fact that Clan engines/internals/etc. are locked into place....?

You cannot mess with the CXL engine without serious repercussions due to the build rules for omnimechs. Also, IS has omnimechs coming soon, what then?



I would honestly be fine if they offered the LFE in all sizes, for the same cost as XL engines, with the same functionality. Go right ahead.



Checks Stoned Prophet CW rank in profile, Checks own CW rank in profile. It seems you should play more CW and think about the effectiveness of IS at this point...

>.>
<.<

Ah, I see. So I have to play as much as YOU think I should to form an opinion? and theres NO WAY i could have played that you dont know about? Youre not very bright. Ive played lots of CW. I havent played all that much on this account. It happens. So how about you stop with the straw mans, and actually discuss the topic instead of plugging your ears and saying NUH UH!

[Metus regem]

Mcgral18, on 27 March 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

isXL250 in the Myth Lynx? Yes please.

10 TrueDubs has nearly the same heat dissipation as 12 DHS with the 5 PoorDubs and 7 TrueDubs.



It would make that robot so much better.



Neither the Stalker nor the FS9 had quirks, they were still some of the better robots in the game. Then they got some good quirks.

Kinda silly how they got better quirks than the bad robots.

Just think what could be done with the Adder or Kit Fox.... Or the Void sheilded Storm Crow....