716 replies to this topic

[Impossible Wasabi]

Listless Nomad, on 25 March 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

No one can stop St. Loss!

For he is the patron Saint of losing and blaming the pugs and/or quirks. Martyred by the ban hammer - he died so that all of us my find excuses for our losing! Turn aside from your ill conceived "nerfs" and repent so that thy K/D and thy honor might be saved!

Let no one forget the great sacrifice of St. Loss, truly he is an example for all of us and may he live forever in our memories for his glorious K/D ratio in Clan mechs.

G is for Gamma, on 25 March 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

The Space Vatican remembers the sacrifice of Saint Loss and extends his blessings to all those who fear that soon their over powered Streakcrows and Laser Vomit Timberwolves might be slightly less ridiculous.

Let no one fear the Streakcrows and Laser Vomit Timberwolves, for he who maintains an average K/D in IS mechs is assuredly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.

Aethon, on 25 March 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

Yes, because the Adder and Summoner pilots should pay for the sins of the Stormcrow and Timberwolf pilots, right?

Nay, but the Summoner doth not suffer greatly at present.

However, the Adder, as you say, is assuredly being punished unfairly along with the Mist Lynx.

Peace be upon you,
The Space Pope

Edited by The True Space Pope, 25 March 2015 - 06:04 PM.

[dimachaerus]

Kyocera, on 25 March 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Not really. I'm someone who sits on the fence between IS and clan. You're the epitome of a clanner who is desperate to retain some kind of superiority over IS and you just can't see it.

If you were really someone who sits on the fence, as you claim, you'd realize that this change does very little to harm the more powerful clan mechs, while further screwing the ones that ARE NOT.

It's just like the knee-jerk changes PGI made to Jumpjets, PPC's, and Gauss Rifles, all to nerf the Highlander and Victor during the height of the poptart meta. We can see how well those changes worked at screwing over every jump capable mech in the game, and necessitated special "quirks" to bring PPC/Gauss back into line with where they should have been still.

I like driving my Kit Fox and my Adder in pug matches, I like stomping around in a Summoner and a Nova. These changes will neuter those mechs very, very badly.

[Pjwned]

Ozealot, on 25 March 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

Ya, now you got it. What was it? Maybe it was counting to 3? Here, I help you: 1 slot, 2 slots, 3 slots. 1 slot = nothing happens. 2 slots = nothing happens. 3 slots = engine destroyed.

That is stupidly unbalanced if you expect no penalty for losing part of your engine, XL engines with their reduced weight are partially balanced by the engine being easier to crit which means penalties, unless you're a raving clan apologist I suppose.

Quote

Clan engines explode too, when they loose 3 slots, you may have noticed. No? Well, now you know. When you're not just picking fights and actually read the thread you may have noticed I'm all for the penalty.

Hilarious how you chastise me for picking fights when that's what you've been doing for this entire thread, and I'm pretty sure that if somebody is responding to various posts that means they're reading the thread, so nice job being a hypocrite and a cretin.

Quote

Like 1 slot = nothing happens. 2 slots = heat/speed penalty, 3 slots = boom. But I'm all against Clan engines only. IS engines can loose slots too. Yes, actually less than three at a time by getting a ST blown off when using an IS XL.

There's not a single occasion where IS mechs lose any engine slots between 0 and 3 so I don't know what the hell you're talking about here and it sounds like you're just delusional, but let's just pretend that does happen and then let's also pretend that IS mechs would not be affected by losing 1 or 2 critical engine slots.

What would it matter even if that was the case? If you're taking critical damage to a side torso with an IS XL engine then that means your side torso is nearly gone which means imminent death anyways. Yes, I suppose that if IS mechs ever lost any number of engine slots between 0 and 3 then that could mean a heat (and speed?) penalty shortly before their mech is destroyed from side torso loss, but does that really matter much at all in such a case? The answer is no.

[Yokaiko]

Pjwned, on 25 March 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

That is stupidly unbalanced if you expect no penalty for losing part of your engine, XL engines with their reduced weight are partially balanced by the engine being easier to crit which means penalties, unless you're a raving clan apologist I suppose.



Hilarious how you chastise me for picking fights when that's what you've been doing for this entire thread, and I'm pretty sure that if somebody is responding to various posts that means they're reading the thread, so nice job being a hypocrite and a cretin.



There's not a single occasion where IS mechs lose any engine slots between 0 and 3 so I don't know what the hell you're talking about here and it sounds like you're just delusional, but let's just pretend that does happen and then let's also pretend that IS mechs would not be affected by losing 1 or 2 critical engine slots.

What would it matter even if that was the case? If you're taking critical damage to a side torso with an IS XL engine then that means your side torso is nearly gone which means imminent death anyways. Yes, I suppose that if IS mechs ever lost any number of engine slots between 0 and 3 then that could mean a heat (and speed?) penalty shortly before their mech is destroyed from side torso loss, but does that really matter much at all in such a case? The answer is no.

Yet that crit system is why IS mechs die with an XL and Clans keep on trucking.

It SHOULD be applied to ALL engines, motor takes a hit you take a penalty. Except reasons.

[Pjwned]

Yokaiko, on 25 March 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Yet that crit system is why IS mechs die with an XL and Clans keep on trucking.

It SHOULD be applied to ALL engines, motor takes a hit you take a penalty. Except reasons.

When the motor takes 3 hits (i.e the side torso is lost) then the mech is destroyed, are you really just bickering that it's so important that IS mechs should sometimes have a penalty for taking an engine hit or 2 shortly before the mech is destroyed from side torso loss? I'm not saying IS mechs should be exempt, but even with a proper crit system it barely matters since the mech is nearly gone, but obviously that's not the case for clan mechs so it's a little more important there.

Ozealot, on 25 March 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

Maybe you should read not rant. I posted 2 times the same thing, extra in response to your ranting, and made my point clear. In fact I begin to think you don't even have a clue about base mechanics actually in the game (since closed beta). And you want a vote for additonal mechanics? As far as it concerns me I am done with you. Keep on ranting dude.

1. It's not a rant simply because you don't agree with it.
2. Your point is not clear at all, partially because your posts are so incoherent.
3. You ignored everything I said in response to your misleading, completely wrong statements about IS mechs ever losing any less than 3 engine slots in the current system.

I guess I would just take a cop out if I didn't know what I was talking about though, so I don't really blame you.

Edited by Pjwned, 25 March 2015 - 06:51 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Pjwned, on 25 March 2015 - 06:48 PM, said:

3. You ignored everything I said in response to your misleading, completely wrong statements about IS mechs losing less than 3 engine slots with side torso destruction.

Should be any mech losing three torso slots, another factor that PGI deemed too hard.

[Pjwned]

Ozealot, on 25 March 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

So you are simple. OK, no problem. For me. Keep on "reading" then.

Keep being delusional, not much of a problem for me either.

[Pjwned]

Ozealot, on 25 March 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

A good "read". http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/ But you also have to understand.

Taken directly from your reading:

Quote

15 HP – Engine

Effect? Nothing. It does absolutely nothing, yet. A critically destroyed engine does NOT destroy you in game. The only way to 'kill' an opponent through their engine is to destroy the component it is housed in. For STD engines this is the Center Torso. For XL engines this is the left, center, and right torsos. Hopefully this clears confusion: Critically destroying an engine does not kill you in game.

This shows that:
A) Inner Sphere mechs effectively lose 3 or more engine slots whenever the engine takes damage (due to all engines being exempt from any effects of actual critical hits) despite you claiming otherwise, but you're wrong.
B) Clan mechs are not affected unfairly (in fact, they have a large advantage) nor are IS mechs somehow exempt from any engine slot loss penalties.

Edited by Pjwned, 25 March 2015 - 07:41 PM.

[lshtaria]

It's one of those tank growing things I guess. No prejudice though.

[CHH Badkarma]

Honestly, if clans had the choice to run different engines like IS do, I would not care so much. IS mech jocks can choose to run a fragile engine, knowing full well what the effects can be. Clan pilots have no such choice. All this punishing clan pilots for having XL locked engines that they cannot change is about as logical as a parent punishing a child for being born the gender other than what they wanted.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 25 March 2015 - 10:53 PM.

[Johnny Z]

CHH Badkarma, on 25 March 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

Honestly, if clans had the choice to run different engines like IS do, I would not care so much. IS mech jocks can choose to run a fragile engine, knowing full well what the effects can be. Clan pilots have no such choice. All this punishing clan pilots for having XL locked engines that they cannot change is about as logical as a parent punishing a child for being born the gender other than what they wanted.

You realize clan engines are locked and clan hard points are unlocked right? Your asking for both to be unlocked? Meanwhile the Inner Sphere has locked hard points and unlocked engines?

Have the easy mode players in this game no virtual shame? lol This is likely the most unbalanced game possibly ever and you guys want more? Im sure im not the only one getting a kick out of this.

Clan tech is cheese mode, thats why their mechs are cheese colored haha. Dont think so? Look at the sales page.

Oh and feel free to edit any replies saying 20% speed loss on Omni XL side torso loss is to much. It makes those that said so look like fools.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 March 2015 - 11:04 PM.

[CHH Badkarma]

Johnny Z, on 25 March 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

You realize clan engines are locked and clan hard points are unlocked right? Your asking for both to be unlocked? Meanwhile the Inner Sphere has locked hard points and unlocked engines?

Have the easy mode players in this game no virtual shame? lol This is likely the most unbalanced game possibly ever and you guys want more? Im sure im not the only one getting a kick out of this.

Clan tech is cheese mode, thats why their mechs are cheese colored haha. Dont think so? Look at the sales page.

QQ me a river. You realize your standard engine take up less crits right? You realize you get to wholesale swap and gut your mech with no penalty right? Yeah, totally removing a mechs entire skeleton would come with no penalty other than the cost of materials. Riiiiiight. IS mechs had vastly more flexibility, period. We all know this, we have all run them for years.

and on the hardpoints...
IS mech variants, different hardpoints each one. your argument is weak sauce sir. Flaunt your arrogance elsewhere. If you do not want to contribute take a walk.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 25 March 2015 - 11:07 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Well come on what about an experiment
Those Tubies that want to use a STD engine for the same weight - and IS players got ST loose 20% but no death - for well 2months
After those 2 months there may be a couple of guys still running Std for Is (those with class 20s in TorTorso) and at best even few Clans running STD.

[CHH Badkarma]

Karl Streiger, on 25 March 2015 - 11:12 PM, said:

Well come on what about an experiment
Those Tubies that want to use a STD engine for the same weight - and IS players got ST loose 20% but no death - for well 2months
After those 2 months there may be a couple of guys still running Std for Is (those with class 20s in TorTorso) and at best even few Clans running STD.

Sadly, SOP for pgi is to experiment with the favored "comp" teams that in no way represent anything near the player base.

[Aethon]

Johnny Z, on 25 March 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

You realize clan engines are locked and clan hard points are unlocked right? Your asking for both to be unlocked? Meanwhile the Inner Sphere has locked hard points and unlocked engines?

Have the easy mode players in this game no virtual shame? lol This is likely the most unbalanced game possibly ever and you guys want more? Im sure im not the only one getting a kick out of this.

Clan tech is cheese mode, thats why their mechs are cheese colored haha. Dont think so? Look at the sales page.

Oh and feel free to edit any replies saying 20% speed loss on Omni XL side torso loss is to much. It makes those that said so look like fools.

Wait, Clan gameplay is cheese mode? I must be doing it all wrong with my Badders and Cute Foxes.

[Karl Streiger]

Aethon, on 25 March 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

Wait, Clan gameplay is cheese mode? I must be doing it all wrong with my Badders and Cute Foxes.

Or the Gargamel...

This argument always detoriate towards:
"your holy trinary bla bla" -
"but your FireStarter bla bla"
"but hitboxes on Stormcrow bla bla"
"quirked meta builds bla bla"
"but holy trinary bla bla" - again from the start

Its a fact that PGI have to break in some points with the TROs.

• Drop internal engine heatsinks for "TimberWolf, Summoner, Gargoyle and Executioner -towards 12)
  
• Allow Endosteel - make JumpJets OmniTech
  
• remove quirks for all IS Mechs and all ClanMechs
  
• steel yourself for IS being washed away at first
  
• prepare to hotfix stuff in 2 day rythm
  
• start with minor movement quirks (for example +5° Arm yaw for Gargoyle and Summoner - without lower arm activator)
  
• analyze game play in PUG land as well as statements from competive crews
  
• when fixes only in 0.5 - or 2-5% steps

Last not least by those "purist" for BattleTech TROs - i have two sentences:
First - those Mechs where never supposed to work in a FPS - realized that yesterday when i looked the recordsheets for the Gargoyle - its inconsistent at best
Second - even the holy MW3 did break with the LORE - the Summoner had a stockweight of 67.5tons because jumpjets only did weight 0.5tons.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 25 March 2015 - 11:35 PM.

[dimachaerus]

Johnny Z, on 25 March 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

Your deliberately spouting nonesense for one reason. To upset players. Yet you and the troll brigade, also spamming nonesense, think thats cool. Interesting anyway.

No, not really, he's got a pretty solid point. The only guys here spouting vitriol and deliberately trying to upset people, are you and Kyocera.

While one clan mech can usually pack on a good combination of hardpoints in a variety of configs, most pods are redundant. Most side torsos, most of the center torso's, the heads, legs, on most clan mechs you usually have exactly the same slots in several of these. usually the Arms are what vary the most, and a lot of those are simply variations of the same thing, I.E.: 1 energy on the first, 2 energy on the second, and a third with 1 energy with some kind of minor quirk.

Also a lot of these pods don't work so well together. When was the last time you saw some oddball running a Ballistic Stormcrow, or the Ballistic arm on the Ice Ferret? What about the Mist Lynx's machinegun arm, or the Nova's two-energy-hardpoint arms?

Hardly a stellar assortment of mech variety, especially considering the fact that you always have large amounts of locked equipment in each pod. Still boggles my mind that Battlemechs are more flexible in terms of what you can mount on them than Omnis, when it's actually supposed to be the other way around. But, I guess thats what Omnis get when you try and make them balanced one-for-one with Battlemechs.

Just imagine how screwed our I.S. Omnis will be with the same build rules.

[CHH Badkarma]

Karl Streiger, on 25 March 2015 - 11:33 PM, said:

Or the Gargamel...

This argument always detoriate towards:
"your holy trinary bla bla" -
"but your FireStarter bla bla"
"but hitboxes on Stormcrow bla bla"
"quirked meta builds bla bla"
"but holy trinary bla bla" - again from the start

Its a fact that PGI have to break in some points with the TROs.

• Drop internal engine heatsinks for "TimberWolf, Summoner, Gargoyle and Executioner -towards 12)
  
• Allow Endosteel - make JumpJets OmniTech
  
• remove quirks for all IS Mechs and all ClanMechs
  
• steel yourself for IS being washed away at first
  
• prepare to hotfix stuff in 2 day rythm
  
• start with minor movement quirks (for example +5° Arm yaw for Gargoyle and Summoner - without lower arm activator)
  
• analyze game play in PUG land as well as statements from competive crews
  
• when fixes only in 0.5 - or 2-5% steps

Last not least by those "purist" for BattleTech TROs - i have two sentences:


First - those Mechs where never supposed to work in a FPS - realized that yesterday when i looked the recordsheets for the Gargoyle - its inconsistent at best
Second - even the holy MW3 did break with the LORE - the Summoner had a stockweight of 67.5tons because jumpjets only did weight 0.5tons.

I would actually be in favor in getting rid of all clan weapons damage quirks. However, buff the targeting computers a bit.None of this 1 percent extra stuff per ton. They scale very poorly. If you want more crit chance and range, you have to pay for it in critical slots and tonnage. Thats a good trade off in my opinion. Less room for heatsinks, so you have to fire carefully. Just give clan mechs slight agility buffs if any quirks are deemed necessary

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 25 March 2015 - 11:44 PM.

[Aethon]

Karl Streiger, on 25 March 2015 - 11:33 PM, said:

Or the Gargamel...

This argument always detoriate towards:
"your holy trinary bla bla" -
"but your FireStarter bla bla"
"but hitboxes on Stormcrow bla bla"
"quirked meta builds bla bla"
"but holy trinary bla bla" - again from the start

That is because those are valid arguments.

The 'holy trinity' needs adjustment first; they are the ones that stand out the most, and require the most adjustment to bring them back in-line with the rest. I personally do not feel the Dire Wolf is part of this, but...whatever. *shrug*

The Firestarter is, IMHO, the most broken mech in the game. It makes all other light mechs pointless, as a combat machine. It really does need to have its hitboxes and hardpoints adjusted.

The Stormcrow is the worst Clan offender, IMHO; it simply does not take damage like it should (just like the Firestarter, although nowhere near as bad).

Quirked meta builds are not the complaint here; rather, they are what put the IS on par with the Clans. When you build an IS mech in such a way as to take advantage of its quirks, it really is an impressive machine, and it actually has more flexibility than an Omnimech, when you consider the fact that you have at least 3 chassis to choose from.



These arguments still make sense, which is why people keep bringing them up; the balance right now is not bad at all, IMHO, aside from a select few outliers, both above and below average.

[Gyrok]

Johnny Z, on 25 March 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

Your deliberately spouting nonesense for one reason. To upset players. Yet you and the troll brigade, also spamming nonesense, think thats cool. Interesting anyway.

The only troll I see around here is a village idiot looking for the bridge into his town.

Have you found that bridge yet?

Aethon, on 25 March 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

That is because those are valid arguments.

The 'holy trinity' needs adjustment first; they are the ones that stand out the most, and require the most adjustment to bring them back in-line with the rest. I personally do not feel the Dire Wolf is part of this, but...whatever. *shrug*

The Firestarter is, IMHO, the most broken mech in the game. It makes all other light mechs pointless, as a combat machine. It really does need to have its hitboxes and hardpoints adjusted.

The Stormcrow is the worst Clan offender, IMHO; it simply does not take damage like it should (just like the Firestarter, although nowhere near as bad).

Quirked meta builds are not the complaint here; rather, they are what put the IS on par with the Clans. When you build an IS mech in such a way as to take advantage of its quirks, it really is an impressive machine, and it actually has more flexibility than an Omnimech, when you consider the fact that you have at least 3 chassis to choose from.



These arguments still make sense, which is why people keep bringing them up; the balance right now is not bad at all, IMHO, aside from a select few outliers, both above and below average.

Well, the TW gets the JJ animation fixed next patch, I would say let the dust settle on the massive nerf to survivability that will have before suggesting anything more.

As for the SCR, it certainly takes 55 tonner damage when I drive it...not sure who has magic voodoo box or something to get more out of it...(VPN maybe?)

EDIT: In fact, the SCR exposes half of the mech before the cockpit and tends to take fire to the torsos pretty quickly. That is the weakness in the SCR in my mind, it gets cut in half pretty easily...

Edited by Gyrok, 26 March 2015 - 05:21 AM.