66 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alright, so let's begin with a fairly simple question...what is the point of the omnimech restrictions being translated into this game?

Now there are only two reasons I can think of, fear of overpowered designs because of the omnipod system and because of lore.

Now considering the frankenmechs that the IS have, lore seems like a silly reason to keep unoptimized mechs as just that when it necessitates significant quirks just to overcome to constant nerfs of clan tech in general on top of the deficiencies of the chassis themselves.

As for the omnipod system, it didn't really stop the god tier mechs from being the dominant chassis' since the poptart nerfs, so I don't really see that as a huge problem. Not to mention quirks can always be used to fine tune the omnipods. Plus it allows the clans to fulfill multiple roles without the volume of chassis' the IS has to offer (even if only a few are viable).

So the restrictions failed to stop the monsters that are the god tier chassis' and lore isn't a significant reason when it hamstrings a significant amount of mechs due to poorly optimized designs (especially given the engine rules being changed).

So what am I suggesting then? In return for a few more nerfs to clan tech (or buffs to IS tech) like the C-XL nerf and maybe some buffs to IS endo/FF or things like that, we unlock the clans to be customizable. It doesn't have to be quite to the extent that the IS has, but it should definitely happen because of the blanket clan nerfs (not that they are undeserved) that we are probably not quite done seeing that just widen the gap between the bad clan mechs and the good ones. Yes, this means PGI can stop using the omni restrictions as an excuse to keep certain weapons (C-ERML, I'm looking at you) from being quite as powerful as they are currently.

[El Bandito]

I still think the dominant Clan mechs such as the Timbie and Crow need chassis specific nerfs. Not only due to the omnipods etc, but them hitboxes man. I find it easier to take the Grasshopper out of commission than the Crow.

And yes, I mastered both the Crow and the TW, and yes, it felt like cheating when I drove them.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 March 2015 - 06:21 PM.

[CaptainScumBa11s]

IS have lights goin for them at least

[Yokaiko]

El Bandito, on 18 March 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

I still think the dominant Clan mechs such as the Timbie and Crow need chassis specific nerfs. Not only due to the omnipods etc, but them hitboxes man. I find it easier to take the Grasshopper out of commission than the Crow.

No really, they don't at all.

[Mcgral18]

Would you like some examples of Terribad robots being less terrible, or perhaps even good, with a less restrictive mechlab?

We could either adhere to TT construction rules, or throw them out like IS mechs do.

[FupDup]

TheKillerWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

IS have lights goin for them at least

Arctic Cheater said:

rekt ggclose

Edited by FupDup, 18 March 2015 - 06:22 PM.

[Reitrix]

I still firmly believe dropping the heat cap to 35 would allow some of the less used Omnis such as the Summoner to be more viable.
The Timber has twice the available HPs as the Summoner, more tons to play with and gets to fire off all the lasers, missiles and ballistics as much as he wants.

For example, if my Timber with 3xML, 2xLL, 4xSRM4, 3xMG had to choose between Missiles and Lasers because firing either all at once would take me to critical heat or overheat, then the Summoner who only has a single large ballistic and a few MLs has roughly the same firepower per shot as the Timber Wolf, the Timber Wolf simply has a greater variety of weapons to choose from per engagement.

Fewer HPs shoudl mean a specialized build while more HPs allow for build flexibility. But right now its More HPs = Better 'Mech outright.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Unlock Endo and FF. Unlock "hardwired" gear that is normally removable. Give clan mechs a singular alternative engine. Reduce number of shots in a burst for clan ACs. Reduce base spread on clan LBXs. Fix ammo switching for all LBXs (but make the alternate ammo for IS LBX 10 a burst like clan ACs, to keep the regular AC10 relevant).

Either adjust damage and heat downward on clan lasers, or keep damage and heat as is, and reduce laser duration.

Keep movement and heat penalties for lost side torso on clan mechs, remove the stupid 10 second re calibration bs.

Make JJs all or nothing, BASED ON ENGINE SIZE (engine sizes in x range allow for y or 0 JJs, engines in z range allow for v or 0 jjs, etc), for IS AND CLAN mechs, and give JJs a smidge more vertical oomph, and a lot more horizontal oomph, with reticle shake throughout (more on liftoff, less on post burn). Fix JJ bunnyhop borking hitboxes.

Add target reticle shake based on movement (way less than JJs, and varying on percentage of speed).

Remove lock block from ECM but make it prevent target sharing, and drastically increase time to gather target info.

Quirk the still bad Clan mechs some more. Continue adjusting IS quirks as well.

...got carried away a bit. Apologies.

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 18 March 2015 - 06:31 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 18 March 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

Would you like some examples of Terribad robots being less terrible, or perhaps even good, with a less restrictive mechlab?

Oh how my Mist Lynx dreams of mounting that 225 XL.....one day...one day.

[CaptainScumBa11s]

To derail all this and prove a point anyone watching MWOLN? only IS mechs in the game are a couple ravens and a firestarter... everything else is storm, timber, and hellbring.

[Mcgral18]

WM Quicksilver, on 18 March 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

Oh how my Mist Lynx dreams of mounting that 225 XL.....one day...one day.

Along with the Nova, Fridge, Mr Gargles.


The ones with bad engines, or simply bad construction.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 18 March 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

Along with the Nova, Fridge, Mr Gargles.


The ones with bad engines, or simply bad construction.

Just be glad we never got the Crossbow, that is one sad Clan omni outside the 16 AP Gauss variant (which is lolz).

[Johnny Z]

Reitrix, on 18 March 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

I still firmly believe dropping the heat cap to 35 would allow some of the less used Omnis such as the Summoner to be more viable.
The Timber has twice the available HPs as the Summoner, more tons to play with and gets to fire off all the lasers, missiles and ballistics as much as he wants.

For example, if my Timber with 3xML, 2xLL, 4xSRM4, 3xMG had to choose between Missiles and Lasers because firing either all at once would take me to critical heat or overheat, then the Summoner who only has a single large ballistic and a few MLs has roughly the same firepower per shot as the Timber Wolf, the Timber Wolf simply has a greater variety of weapons to choose from per engagement.

Fewer HPs shoudl mean a specialized build while more HPs allow for build flexibility. But right now its More HPs = Better 'Mech outright.

Does this work? If so why hasnt this been brought in before?

[FupDup]

WM Quicksilver, on 18 March 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

Just be glad we never got the Crossbow, that is one sad Clan omni outside the 16 AP Gauss variant (which is lolz).

I just looked up the record sheets on that one...65 tonner with 16 tons of pod space. Derp.

It's even worse than the Linebacker, because the Linebacker at least uses FF + Endo to fudge the engine up to a 385. But the Crossbow, dear god it's a genuine shitmech if I've ever seen one.

Edited by FupDup, 18 March 2015 - 06:33 PM.

[Mcgral18]

WM Quicksilver, on 18 March 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

Just be glad we never got the Crossbow, that is one sad Clan omni outside the 16 AP Gauss variant (which is lolz).

Boy....that's one cheap mech. At least it has DHS...

Probably wouldn't even be 8 Mil in MWO. No Endo, no XL, no Ferro. Just....DHS.

[El Bandito]

TheKillerWolf, on 18 March 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

To derail all this and prove a point anyone watching MWOLN? only IS mechs in the game are a couple ravens and a firestarter... everything else is storm, timber, and hellbring.

I would not be surprised.

[Burktross]

Mcgral18, on 18 March 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

Would you like some examples of Terribad robots being less terrible, or perhaps even good, with a less restrictive mechlab?

We could either adhere to TT construction rules, or throw them out like IS mechs do.

The only thing that's thrown out is time, no?

[CaptainScumBa11s]

El Bandito, on 18 March 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

I would not be surprised.

http://www.twitch.tv/mwoln

i think the next games comin up

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 18 March 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

Boy....that's one cheap mech. At least it has DHS...

Probably wouldn't even be 8 Mil in MWO. No Endo, no XL, no Ferro. Just....DHS.

The Battle Cobra is the same way, but at least it can abuse energy weapons even if they are all in the arms.
Which is funny considering their battlemech designs the Black Python and Vapor Eagle which are both jumping wubwub mechs ironically the same tonnage/speed as the current masters of laser vomit. The only expense they lack is the simple price increase for being omni, everything else is top of the line.

[Davers]

WM Quicksilver, on 18 March 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

Alright, so let's begin with a fairly simple question...what is the point of the omnimech restrictions being translated into this game?

Now there are only two reasons I can think of, fear of overpowered designs because of the omnipod system and because of lore.

Now considering the frankenmechs that the IS have, lore seems like a silly reason to keep unoptimized mechs as just that when it necessitates significant quirks just to overcome to constant nerfs of clan tech in general on top of the deficiencies of the chassis themselves.

As for the omnipod system, it didn't really stop the god tier mechs from being the dominant chassis' since the poptart nerfs, so I don't really see that as a huge problem. Not to mention quirks can always be used to fine tune the omnipods. Plus it allows the clans to fulfill multiple roles without the volume of chassis' the IS has to offer (even if only a few are viable).

So the restrictions failed to stop the monsters that are the god tier chassis' and lore isn't a significant reason when it hamstrings a significant amount of mechs due to poorly optimized designs (especially given the engine rules being changed).

So what am I suggesting then? In return for a few more nerfs to clan tech (or buffs to IS tech) like the C-XL nerf and maybe some buffs to IS endo/FF or things like that, we unlock the clans to be customizable. It doesn't have to be quite to the extent that the IS has, but it should definitely happen because of the blanket clan nerfs (not that they are undeserved) that we are probably not quite done seeing that just widen the gap between the bad clan mechs and the good ones. Yes, this means PGI can stop using the omni restrictions as an excuse to keep certain weapons (C-ERML, I'm looking at you) from being quite as powerful as they are currently.

You know what mech would greatly benefit from Clan customization? The Timberwolf.

Clan players have to understand that it isn't the IS complaining in a vacuum here. It's PGI that keeps telling everyone they aren't balanced.