118 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 March 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

Not all do, some are more general, as the case needs to be with the K unless it can get quirks to prevent Gauss explosions, the K just needs to have the faster recycle out of the group. It also needs a second missile point because it loses 2 HP for that one extra AMS HP but we know that isn't ever going to happen even though it really is a simple XML edit since the resources already exist.


If they did quirks for missiles, it would be in place of the AC20 quirks, it definitely needs all the defensive quirks it can stack.

If any of them focused on the Missiles it would be the 7S (4 hardpoints) or the 7D-DC, (3) not the 7K, (with 1). I could possibly see the 7S getting it to differentiate it from the 7D more. As I said, the 7DDC should see minimal weapon quirks, because it has ECM already.

As for the Gauss, Again, having 40 more health protecting it, especially as Structure buffs seem to soak component damage, should be sufficient, but if not, then have it's HP buffed like it used to be. Or to really torque people off, remove the charge up on it for the K.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 March 2015 - 10:46 PM.

[Mavairo]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

If any of them focused on the Missiles it would be the 7S (4 hardpoints) or the 7D-DC, (3) not the 7K, (with 1). I could possibly see the 7S getting it to differentiate it from the 7D more. As I said, the 7DDC should see minimal weapon quirks, because it has ECM already.

As for the Gauss, Again, having 40 more health protecting it, especially as Structure buffs seem to soak component damage, should be sufficient, but if not, then have it's HP buffed like it used to be. Or to really torque people off, remove the charge up on it for the K.

That might be about the only way to make that low hanging GR worth it on the K too....

The Atlas desperately needs armor and structure quirks. Even in the present time setting, the Atlas is known for being tougher than nails. Which is why it's still seen on the battlefield, even decades, after present time.

Edited by Mavairo, 20 March 2015 - 10:48 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mavairo, on 20 March 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

That might be about the only way to make that low hanging GR worth it on the K too....

The Atlas desperately needs armor and structure quirks. Even in the present time setting, the Atlas is known for being tougher than nails. Which is why it's still seen on the battlefield, even decades, after present time.

During Operation Revival on the Tamar front, one notable account was of how the local ruler Duke Kelswa held up the Clan Offensive on his city for some time in his Atlas, that just refused to go down. (Clan Wolf sourcebook). Even the Clans had to respect the Atlas. But really, who fears an Atlas in MWO?

probably still my favorite atlas picture

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 March 2015 - 10:56 PM.

[YueFei]

+1 to durability quirks for the Atlas.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

If any of them focused on the Missiles it would be the 7S (4 hardpoints) or the 7D-DC, (3)

That's what I was suggesting, missiles quirks on the D, K, RS, or BH would be rather wasteful of a quirk.

As for the K, maybe if it got GI level Gauss quirks, maybe........

[Bishop Steiner]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 March 2015 - 10:57 PM, said:

That's what I was suggesting, missiles quirks on the D, K, RS, or BH would be rather wasteful of a quirk.

As for the K, maybe if it got GI level Gauss quirks, maybe........

40% (total) is GI level Gaus quirks.

[TheSilken]

Maybe not necessary but don't forget to buff the leg armor a tad so it can tank a little better in CW. No one likes seeing a legged Atlas.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2015 - 10:58 PM, said:

40% (total) is GI level Gaus quirks.

It's 50%, 40% is close, but why not give it a little something extra, this thing has been terrible since the closed beta days where you only bought it for the 300 XL.

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2015 - 10:50 PM, said:

During Operation Revival on the Tamar front, one notable account was of how the local ruler Duke Kelswa held up the Clan Offensive on his city for some time in his Atlas, that just refused to go down. (Clan Wolf sourcebook). Even the Clans had to respect the Atlas. But really, who fears an Atlas in MWO?

probably still my favorite atlas picture

Yet a single Elemental managed to defeat an Atlas 1v1. Some Ghost Bear warriors even derided such victory cause the Atlas happened to be an "IS barbarian mech", never mind its size.
I want Elementals and Aerospace Fighters in this game so bad.

TheSilken, on 20 March 2015 - 10:58 PM, said:

Maybe not necessary but don't forget to buff the leg armor a tad so it can tank a little better in CW. No one likes seeing a legged Atlas.

Then don't shave your leg armor. 84 points is plenty for leg protection.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 March 2015 - 11:15 PM.

[luxebo]

@Bishop: Here are my thoughts on the Atlas:
-Already has DDC, S, and BH as some of the stronger ones.
-Needs MISSILE quirks too, so lower some ballistic for some missile.
-I'll explain a few others too.
(Oh and BH doesn't have gauss)

Atlas BH:
+10% more speed.
+10% torso twist.
+20-30% more AC20 cooldown + velocity, along with 20-30% MPL heat gen.
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.

Atlas RS:
+10% more torso twist and arm reflex.
+20-30% more Gauss cooldown + velocity, along with 30-40% LL/ER LL heat gen.
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.
+50% less damage when Gauss explodes.

Atlas K:
+50% more AMS range.
+40-50% more Gauss cooldown + velocity.
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.
+50% less damage when Gauss explodes.
+10% torso twist.
+If XL then 30% extra torso twist, 10% speed. Have to compensate for suicide mission.

Atlas D:
+15-30% All SRMs range + cooldown.
+20-30% AC20 cooldown + velocity.
+10% torso twist.
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.

Atlas S:
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.
+20-30% All SRMs cooldown + range.
+10% Streak locking speed.
+AC20 10-20% cooldown + velocity.

Atlas DDC:
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.
+COMMAND CONSOLE QUIRK!!!!: ECM reaches farther out, LRMs and SSRMs lock 10% faster, Zoom magnifies farther, When typing in chat or pressing caps lock (whatever button) for voice comms you get 10% extra defense as a defensive reporting shield to spot targets and spread info. <-- Might be a better idea here than comms shield.
+AC20 10% cooldown + velocity.
+All SRMs 10-20% cooldown + range.

The total for AC20/Gauss/SRMs is as said including the amount of ballistic/missile cooldown. I hope this gives ideas and it does swell to us; of course I want more quirks for other mechs too. Awesomes should practically get double the armor, if not also raise the speed cap (or give extra speed), and also give it moar heat gen quirks. We have so much **** we can do, yet PGI will give us 5% machine gun range. ggclose.
*Note that not all mechs use "stock mech" weapons, but who is gonna run an AC10 on an Atlas? Not enough boom, really only comboed with PPCs etc.

Couple more ideas to throw around:
+XL doubles amount given if not triples amount given extra armor for torsos.
+Case protects armor to 95% not blowing up.
+Ammo/Gauss is auto-Cased in CT/RT/LT.
+Missile locking speed increases for all (this might suck as then people will turn to legibly usable Lurmtlases)
+Flamer quirks for Boars Head: Increases speed and does 50% extra heat to enemies, while having another 10% speed. Also should be given extra raw damage, being able to potentially melt ammo inside the enemy and/or blow the gauss and/or core an enemy without damaging armor itself.
+Steiner Scout quirks: NARC/Tag quirks here, NARC 30-40% cooldown + velocity, TAG has a special quirk where one dot drop will have radar leakage and TAG will remain on the target for 2-3 extra seconds without needing to hold the button.
+kapusta's post made me think of this: When NARC/tag attached to DDC, DDC can deactivate it with Command Console.

Edited by luxebo, 20 March 2015 - 11:30 PM.

[kapusta11]

For K the best Gauss quirk would be ERLL burn duration quirk as it syncs really well in its purpose with Gauss and 1.25 burn time is just way too long to be viable while aiming at that range (600+), plus ERLL is its stock weapon. Something like 15% general and 15% specifically for ERLL to make it 0.9 sec.

As for armor vs IS quirk I'd rather pick the former and not give the opponent more chances to crit my weapons and other equipment.

ECM is overrated IMO, it protects you only agains LRMs and cover does the same thing better. Teams that utilize/rely on LRMs usually have a NARCer and use UAVs against which ECM is of no use, unless you have several of those.

Edited by kapusta11, 20 March 2015 - 11:21 PM.

[Helorn]

I would just like to add I think this is a fantastic idea. The Atlas's current state makes me sad. But then again the current state of a lot of 'mechs makes me sad, but that is aside the point. The Atlas has big heart that needs some love, haha.

[Bishop Steiner]

luxebo, on 20 March 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

@Bishop: Here are my thoughts on the Atlas:
-Already has DDC, S, and BH as some of the stronger ones.
-Needs MISSILE quirks too, so lower some ballistic for some missile.
-I'll explain a few others too.
(Oh and BH doesn't have gauss)

Atlas BH:
+10% more speed.
+10% torso twist.
+20-30% more AC20 cooldown + velocity, along with 20-30% MPL heat gen.
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.

Atlas RS:
+10% more torso twist and arm reflex.
+20-30% more Gauss cooldown + velocity, along with 30-40% LL/ER LL heat gen.
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.
+50% less damage when Gauss explodes.

Atlas K:
+50% more AMS range.
+40-50% more Gauss cooldown + velocity.
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.
+50% less damage when Gauss explodes.
+10% torso twist.
+If XL then 30% extra torso twist, 10% speed. Have to compensate for suicide mission.

Atlas D:
+15-30% All SRMs range + cooldown.
+20-30% AC20 cooldown + velocity.
+10% torso twist.
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.

Atlas S:
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.
+20-30% All SRMs cooldown + range.
+10% Streak locking speed.
+AC20 10-20% cooldown + velocity.

Atlas DDC:
+RT, LT, CT need 20 per structure + armor. Give or take 5-10 more armor and structure on arms.
+COMMAND CONSOLE QUIRK!!!!: ECM reaches farther out, LRMs and SSRMs lock 10% faster, Zoom magnifies farther, When typing in chat or pressing caps lock (whatever button) for voice comms you get 10% extra defense as a defensive reporting shield to spot targets and spread info. <-- Might be a better idea here than comms shield.
+AC20 10% cooldown + velocity.
+All SRMs 10-20% cooldown + range.

The total for AC20/Gauss/SRMs is as said including the amount of ballistic/missile cooldown. I hope this gives ideas and it does swell to us; of course I want more quirks for other mechs too. Awesomes should practically get double the armor, if not also raise the speed cap (or give extra speed), and also give it moar heat gen quirks. We have so much **** we can do, yet PGI will give us 5% machine gun range. ggclose.
*Note that not all mechs use "stock mech" weapons, but who is gonna run an AC10 on an Atlas? Not enough boom, really only comboed with PPCs etc.

Couple more ideas to throw around:
+XL doubles amount given if not triples amount given extra armor for torsos.
+Case protects armor to 95% not blowing up.
+Ammo/Gauss is auto-Cased in CT/RT/LT.
+Missile locking speed increases for all (this might suck as then people will turn to legibly usable Lurmtlases)
+Flamer quirks for Boars Head: Increases speed and does 50% extra heat to enemies, while having another 10% speed. Also should be given extra raw damage, being able to potentially melt ammo inside the enemy and/or blow the gauss and/or core an enemy without damaging armor itself.
+Steiner Scout quirks: NARC/Tag quirks here, NARC 30-40% cooldown + velocity, TAG has a special quirk where one dot drop will have radar leakage and TAG will remain on the target for 2-3 extra seconds without needing to hold the button.
+kapusta's post made me think of this: When NARC/tag attached to DDC, DDC can deactivate it with Command Console.

the offensive quirks are far too strong....that total amount of quirking would maybe fly on a tier 5 mech. There are a lot of things that would be cool, but just don't seem realistic.

[Malleus011]

Whatever the quirks, I'd just like to see the standard MWO Atlas provoke the same reaction I had when my Centurion ran head-on into a fresh AS7-D(F) playing Stock Mode:

"Do I even have enough ammunition left to kill this thing?"

[Bishop Steiner]

kapusta11, on 20 March 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

As for armor vs IS quirk I'd rather pick the former and not give the opponent more chances to crit my weapons and other equipment.

ECM is overrated IMO, it protects you only agains LRMs and cover does the same thing better. Teams that utilize/rely on LRMs usually have a NARCer and use UAVs against which ECM is of no use, unless you have several of those.

Yes, armor is nice, except the HBK demonstrated once that extra armor went the ac20 still died, instantly. With IS, it lasts until the end, most fo the time. With BOTH, as I suggest you get best of both worlds.

ECM is highly useful, not just against LRMs, simply being able to deny location info and messing up streaks, etc, is well worth it still.

Malleus011, on 20 March 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

Whatever the quirks, I'd just like to see the standard MWO Atlas provoke the same reaction I had when my Centurion ran head-on into a fresh AS7-D(F) playing Stock Mode:

"Do I even have enough ammunition left to kill this thing?"

there are two, truly Iconic Battletech Mechs.

The Atlas, and the Timber Wolf.

The TBR is already the apex predator. The Alpha Wolf. It's time for the Atlas to be the implacable Grizzly.

[Sarlic]

Good point Bishop.

However i would like to see ammo quirks as well for other builds and perhaps a little bit more cooling here and there. With the TTK increasing, i vote for a small ammo increase aswell. Overall LRM damage needs to increase as well before you get in brawling range.

The Atlas never outshined with the poor hardpoint loadout and cooling capablities. You have to invest nowsdays in bigger engines to utilIse speed and agility. Which takes up more critical poonts which you clearly need if you're building a Atlas. For example if you go lower then a STD 300: don't bother twisting.

The K needs to be capable of all ranges. It's still my favorite mech. Currently it's still hardmode but i am enjoying it. Close in to smash some LRM boaters or give a umbrella support as it walks with the team shooting with the powerful Gauss rifle. The K is my favorite mech, and it should have the thougest armor of all variants. The Gauss quirk of today on the K is a fairly good quirk, but in would have seen more allround quirks instead of gravitating the long range. It's a chassis of all trades because of his armor and two AMS points. It moves like a wall, it should stand like a wall.

I have read somewere on the forums of adding a extra energypoint in both of the arms. I like this mix match idea. Not sure how though it is to balance it out. But adding another hardpoint flavor is not a bad idea. Together with some durability quirks it's suppose to be the 'ultimate' tanking machine aside the Direwolf which still can inflict damage.

The next point is that the Atlas compared with other mechs is a huge (priority) target. Although i also make some mistakes when i try to get the terrain to my advantage and i shoot a pile of dirt with my low slung gorilla arms, the thoughness should add up.

Although i do fine in the Atlas, i certainly have some bad days. The durability quirk is a nice touch and would be a warm welcome for the most players.

There is one thing that can't be fixed: teamwork. The Atlas require teamwork in order to be a effective outstanding mech.

I personally go for a jack of all trades. But i like to brawl as well.

Edited by Sarlic, 21 March 2015 - 12:36 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

It needs massive firerate quirks to not be outgunned.
It needs massive durability quirks to not get blown up by every other modern assault in the game.

All atlases should get to equip ECM, too.

Mobility is one of the things it does well, because only fools put something smaller than a 350 in it, and it doesn't have modern assault agility problems to begin with.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 21 March 2015 - 01:13 AM.

[Matthew Ace]

Aside from whatever had been mentioned, chief among my peeves while piloting an Atlas is the limited pitch; I find myself unable to even hit targets at elevated positions with arm mounted weapons when I lack torso pitch because the arm mounted weapons are not mounted sufficiently. Let torso pitch be limited on more powerful assaults.

This is what I would press for:

All Atlases
- Reduced damage taken to front torsos by 15%
- First arm mounted weapon mounted on top of forearms.
- Increased torso twist range and speed
- Increased torso pitch elevation
- Increased arm twist range
- Smaller side torso hitboxes; More of Shoulders counting as arm hitboxes
- LRM and SRM spread quirks
- Laser duration quirks (-15%)
- Ballistic velocity quirks
Optional: Satellite Uplink

Boar's Head
- Reduced damage to arms -15%
- Reduced Energy Heat Generation
- Duration Quirk to lasers (additional -5%)

Atlas K
- Ballistic range quirk (+25%)
- LRM cooldown quirk
- Duration quirk for Large-sized lasers (-10%)
- AMS range quirk

Atlas D
- General reduced heat
- LRM cooldown

Atlas D-DC
- General reduced heat

Atlas RS
- Reduced damage to arms (-15%)
- General reduced heat

Atlas S
- Reduced missile heat

Edited by Matthew Ace, 21 March 2015 - 01:34 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

People getting way too complicated, or over the top. Or missing the point entirely.

Not shocking. Still disappointing.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 March 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[zagibu]

Vassago Rain, on 21 March 2015 - 01:11 AM, said:

It needs massive firerate quirks to not be outgunned.
...
Mobility is one of the things it does well, because only fools put something smaller than a 350 in it, and it doesn't have modern assault agility problems to begin with.

Hmm, i've never felt having firepower problems. Then again, I usually play with STD 300 engines, which leaves more room for weapons and ammo.