118 replies to this topic

[Lyoto Machida]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 March 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

Don't want the fluff, play a game without an extensive back history of it, like Titanfall or Hawken.

Play a long lived storied IP, and expect fluff. Or do you think Star Wars games should be played without Lightsabers?

Personally, I think Stormtroopers should have the option of carrying MP44s or railguns.

[DasSibby]

Yes. YES! Please. PLEASE let PGI make this so!

Basically facing an Atlas should feel like this...

[CRIMSONSUNNY]

As Lux said, we can have all the toughness in the world but it will still never work well. I dunno if even tripling armor would cut it, maybe even more. The Atlas is so huge, much much much huger than the King Crab and Dire Wolf.

That being said the Atlas does zombie quite well, so there would be a few options:
1) Armor x3 or x4, weapon quirks a good chunk Grid Iron level.
2) Make the hitboxes smaller than the actual mech itself, which may be awkward. But it will help it survive much more. Extend arm hitboxes en masse and make torsos small enough for XL to be safe. And then add slightly smaller amounts of quirks.
3) Make new fresh quirks, like all Atlases getting ECM but DDC get's ECM quirks, along with Command Console. Command Console just needs so much to be viable, insane amount.

Really would like to go back to AS7-K or RS or BH or D, but being out-alphaed by a Timber Wolf is sad. It really is. 2xLPL 1xAC20 (AS7-K) with huge emphasis on shielding, but even then the mech feels sluggish, rudimentary, and weak to every extent. I tried 3 LPL, less speed with less armor = faster death. There ain't much to do besides give it some strength to fight others, but we want roles and specific tanky assault roles:

So give AS7-DDC the electronic warfare role, the S the zombie role (give it extended arms with extended quirks), the D the multi-ballistic role (UAC5 quirks? Multi-AC quirks? Maybe x5 the gun rack armor?), the RS with the sniper role, the K with the support role (make it a seriously serious support role), and the BH with the speed role.

Sounds good? Just AC/Gauss cooldowns + small bits of armor isn't gonna save anyone's willy when a Dire Wolf can core you in one alpha.

[Telmasa]

The Atlas really isn't much bigger than a Dire Wolf.

"Grid Iron level" quirks are broken. The Grid Iron needs a nerf, everyone knows it, I've said it from the moment I saw the quirk pass, nobody believed me til now. That isn't a good standard to try to bring other mechs to.

Making hitboxes smaller than the actual mech itself is, to put this very nicely, silly.

All atlases do not need ECM.

ERML+LPL alphas do deserve a ghost heat penalty, and ERML could probably use a nerf of some kind; but Atlai have never been about "alpha striking".

And the only way a DW is going to core you in 1 hit is by taking the kind of loadout that overheats himself in just one alpha.

[Joseph Mallan]

Its a good suggestion Bish. I don't think it needs Quirked to be tough though. Depending on how many enemies are shooting me My Atlas feels pretty robust most matches.

[Bishop Steiner]

Telmasa, on 22 March 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

The Atlas really isn't much bigger than a Dire Wolf.

"Grid Iron level" quirks are broken. The Grid Iron needs a nerf, everyone knows it, I've said it from the moment I saw the quirk pass, nobody believed me til now. That isn't a good standard to try to bring other mechs to.

Making hitboxes smaller than the actual mech itself is, to put this very nicely, silly.

All atlases do not need ECM.

ERML+LPL alphas do deserve a ghost heat penalty, and ERML could probably use a nerf of some kind; but Atlai have never been about "alpha striking".

And the only way a DW is going to core you in 1 hit is by taking the kind of loadout that overheats himself in just one alpha.

agree with most of this.

Joseph Mallan, on 22 March 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

Its a good suggestion Bish. I don't think it needs Quirked to be tough though. Depending on how many enemies are shooting me My Atlas feels pretty robust most matches.

Eh, they are pretty roundly outclassed by Stalkers, DWFs, BNCs (way though, curse you gorilla arms!), KCGs, and tbh, I generally would rather take a WHK or BLR even over a AS7. Only reason I see AS7s hit it is for people who want to run the SplAtlas, or of course, ECM. The rest are almost as scarce as HGNs.

I mean I get ya,. I have matches my HBK feels unstoppable too....and then my Elo goes up....

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 March 2015 - 06:37 AM.

[TheCharlatan]

I vote for more armor and structure buffs. Make it withstand punishment like no other mech by a great margin.

Atlas is no longer fearsome as it's supposed to be. This is unacceptable and must be rectified.

[CRIMSONSUNNY]

Telmasa, on 22 March 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

The Atlas really isn't much bigger than a Dire Wolf.
"Grid Iron level" quirks are broken. The Grid Iron needs a nerf, everyone knows it, I've said it from the moment I saw the quirk pass, nobody believed me til now. That isn't a good standard to try to bring other mechs to.
Making hitboxes smaller than the actual mech itself is, to put this very nicely, silly.
All atlases do not need ECM.
ERML+LPL alphas do deserve a ghost heat penalty, and ERML could probably use a nerf of some kind; but Atlai have never been about "alpha striking".
And the only way a DW is going to core you in 1 hit is by taking the kind of loadout that overheats himself in just one alpha.

If Grid Iron is nerfed, it'll be back to the absolute garbage level of life. It's much better now and doesn't deserve any nerfs. It's still niche, and with a Gauss Rifle in a horrendously easy to blow it shouldn't be a problem to kill. Plus a lot of em have little to nothing to back it up when running STD, if not die instantly with XL (XL + Gauss = ggclose). Exact meaning of "Glass Cannon".

It always made me a bit pissed off why we couldn't have actual Guardian ECM and then just make it so that every mech can put them on, but the special ECM mechs right now should get quirks to ECM. Same as those with Command Console and BAP stock (or if you'd think they would have those, like command type mechs aka Battlemaster/Stalker, or support mechs like Catapult and Kintaro for BAP).

Atlai have never been alpha striking? Say that to every single AS7-DDC and S. AC20 + 3-4 ASRM6 + 2 ML. There are little to no mechs that don't depend on alpha striking. Maybe at the bare minimum spread out the firing and launch the AC20 and SRMs in separate but closely connected volleys, which is still basically alphaing.

ERML just deserves a nerf, that's all it is. LPL is already ok imho. Also Timbers and Crows both need a hitbox readjustment along with a less broken bunnyhopping animation.

Dire Wolf with dual or triple gauss and dual LPL and multiple ER ML can send you to red armor or cored. Even some times in a brawl two or three volleys of AC20 + 3/4 ASRMs can do a hell lot of damage, but compared to dual-triple gauss and laser vomit it isn't the same in damage output. 2-3 alphas versus 1 alpha to coring isn't good in comparison. Defensive quirks must be triple-quadruple armor if that's the only thing it has along with minor weaponry quirks.

Edited by CRIMSONSUNNY, 22 March 2015 - 09:21 PM.

[DjPush]

I think a torso turn rate quirk would be nice. Can't tell you how many times I've tried to turn an arm to enemy fire and not be able to make it in time.

Edited by DjPush, 22 March 2015 - 09:27 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

With all the "perks" in the Quirk system there is hardly any room left for buffing the Atlas.
It can still dish out the pain when you got in the right spot - but the ability to deal pain depends to 100% on the enemy.

Its main tactical weakness - speed combined with few options for long range direct fire - don't make it attractive.
I think the Atlas reached its "end" a while back with the Stalker

Before only with Awesome vs Atlas - the choice of the Atlas always had two reasons: tougher + smaller cockpit

So i would greatly buff the survivability on the battlefield - although a "fast" firing main weapon is never a bad choice - as some won duels YLW vs TimberWolf can prove.

Really wish we could get "item" quirks locked with a specific item of the StockMech - change stuff you loose that quirk.
(for example 20 armor + 20 point structure quirk for the 300XL of the AS7K)

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

Eh, they are pretty roundly outclassed by Stalkers, DWFs, BNCs (way though, curse you gorilla arms!), KCGs, and tbh, I generally would rather take a WHK or BLR even over a AS7. Only reason I see AS7s hit it is for people who want to run the SplAtlas, or of course, ECM. The rest are almost as scarce as HGNs.

I mean I get ya,. I have matches my HBK feels unstoppable too....and then my Elo goes up....

I do not feel Out classed by any Inner Sphere Assault...Yet. I will gladly Dance the Scars with any. As for Dires... A respected opponent that gives me the most pleasure when I down one.

I really need to get a few Banshees though. I mean I'm a Lyran, and the Banshee is a solid Medium-Heavy Mech.

In a few "years" The Atlas will be out classed completely by Assaults packing dual Gauss, Multiple PPC missile swarms et al.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 23 March 2015 - 01:23 AM.

[Telmasa]

CRIMSONSUNNY, on 22 March 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

If Grid Iron is nerfed, it'll be back to the absolute garbage level of life. It's much better now and doesn't deserve any nerfs. It's still niche, and with a Gauss Rifle in a horrendously easy to blow it shouldn't be a problem to kill. Plus a lot of em have little to nothing to back it up when running STD, if not die instantly with XL (XL + Gauss = ggclose). Exact meaning of "Glass Cannon".

It always made me a bit pissed off why we couldn't have actual Guardian ECM and then just make it so that every mech can put them on, but the special ECM mechs right now should get quirks to ECM. Same as those with Command Console and BAP stock (or if you'd think they would have those, like command type mechs aka Battlemaster/Stalker, or support mechs like Catapult and Kintaro for BAP).

Atlai have never been alpha striking? Say that to every single AS7-DDC and S. AC20 + 3-4 ASRM6 + 2 ML. There are little to no mechs that don't depend on alpha striking. Maybe at the bare minimum spread out the firing and launch the AC20 and SRMs in separate but closely connected volleys, which is still basically alphaing.

ERML just deserves a nerf, that's all it is. LPL is already ok imho. Also Timbers and Crows both need a hitbox readjustment along with a less broken bunnyhopping animation.

Dire Wolf with dual or triple gauss and dual LPL and multiple ER ML can send you to red armor or cored. Even some times in a brawl two or three volleys of AC20 + 3/4 ASRMs can do a hell lot of damage, but compared to dual-triple gauss and laser vomit it isn't the same in damage output. 2-3 alphas versus 1 alpha to coring isn't good in comparison. Defensive quirks must be triple-quadruple armor if that's the only thing it has along with minor weaponry quirks.

Sorry but this is just wrong. The Grid Iron would be 100% fine without having double rate of fire speed. Just today I've seen players running other hunchback variants with the gauss rifle to great success - as I have done with my Shadowhawk, which gets NO RATE OF FIRE QUIRKS AT ALL despite it's primary weapon being the ballistic.

Suffice it to say it's ridiculously gimmicky and completely unfair & unnecessary. That's just the truth, even if it hurts.

You're crazy if you think every mech should be able to carry a full load of electronic warfare equipment. Why would there be ANY point to mech variety then? (current ecm balance issues notwithstanding)

I don't care what "metamechs" says about the Atlas and how to play it, it's wrong. I've seen many, many, MANY Atlas', including the DDC and S, naturally, and most of them don't actually carry ML+AC20+SRM6 - either because they learned the hard way that that only works in very niche, very lucky situations, or because like me they enjoy being able to do something at a range farther than you could pick up & throw a Locust.

The Atlas is built for rolling your torso and/or legs, and firing each weapon in turn, keeping up a constant barrage to overwhelm your enemy. Alpha striking is just asking to present the enemy with an easy target. As I described earlier, the Atlas is supposed to be a *tank*, that becomes scary by virtue of being able to take so much damage that it feels impervious to your efforts, and will beat on you relentlessly until you go down. It's not about "PPFLD yolo420noscopehaha metasauce" (which SRM barf is really just a close-up variant of) at ALL.

I don't see anything wrong with the hitboxes for Timberwolf or Stormcrow. I've played a vast variety of mechs from IS and Clan, and there's plenty IS mechs that can tank as good or better than either of the other two.

As for Jumpjet bunnyhop abuse - that's not hardly unique to just the Timberwolf. That's an overall problem with the game that needs a focused fix.

Quad-gauss Dire Wolves are just silly. It's more realistic that you're going to find, at worst, 2xGauss and 2xERPPC - and you can spread the ERPPC damage a bit. Either way it shouldn't be coring you in 1 hit, the math does not work out: that's at most 60 points of damage at once, your torsos have 80+ points of health and the CT has 110+. Even the mass LPL+ERML insta-overheat kind of build will barely core a torso or turn your CT orange, if you're talking about from full health; and if you're sitting still at range for a Dire Wolf to pull off that kind of shot on you, I can't help but feel you've done something wrong.

That all said, defensive quirks *would* help alot - and they don't need to be as drastic as you seem to be worrying about.

Edited by Telmasa, 23 March 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[SethAbercromby]

Telmasa, on 23 March 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:

I don't see anything wrong with the hitboxes for Timberwolf or Stormcrow. I've played a vast variety of mechs from IS and Clan, and there's plenty IS mechs that can tank as good or better than either of the other two.

I think with the Stormcrow it's a combination of hitreg, weird animation and inconsistent hitboxes during said animation. I haven't heard that much about broken hitboxes/hitreg onthe TBR though...

Quote

Quad-gauss Dire Wolves are just silly. It's more realistic that you're going to find, at worst, 2xGauss and 2xERPPC - and you can spread the ERPPC damage a bit. Either way it shouldn't be coring you in 1 hit, the math does not work out: that's at most 60 points of damage at once, your torsos have 80+ points of health and the CT has 110+. Even the mass LPL+ERML insta-overheat kind of build will barely core a torso or turn your CT orange, if you're talking about from full health; and if you're sitting still at range for a Dire Wolf to pull off that kind of shot on you, I can't help but feel you've done something wrong.

I did meet a DWF that managed to put a 90+ damage alpha into my Zeus' CT at close range just recently without overheating. So there is some truth to his statement about absurd alpha potential with that 'Mech.

Edited by SethAbercromby, 23 March 2015 - 02:06 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Quote

The Atlas is built for rolling your torso and/or legs, and firing each weapon in turn, keeping up a constant barrage to overwhelm your enemy. Alpha striking is just asking to present the enemy with an easy target. As I described earlier, the Atlas is supposed to be a *tank*, that becomes scary by virtue of being able to take so much damage that it feels impervious to your efforts, and will beat on you relentlessly until you go down. It's not about "PPFLD yolo420noscopehaha metasauce" (which SRM barf is really just a close-up variant of) at ALL.

This is YOUR perception of what an Atlas is, not Mine. My Atlas walks into a brawl and One alpha after another strips you of armor and weapons until you fall or run away.

[Wrathful Scythe]

SethAbercromby, on 23 March 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

I did meet a DWF that managed to put a 90+ damage alpha into my Zeus' CT at close range just recently without overheating. So there is some truth to his statement about absurd alpha potential with that 'Mech.

DWF-PRIME

This is what I use. 84 dmg which I can fire 2 times in a row without overheating. After that I can still use the 2 CLPL with the Gauss without overheating. If the enemy is not twisting properly he is in for a world of hurt. In a 1 on 1 situation only the UAC/5 Dire or a lucky UAC/5 crab can kill me faster than I can kill them.

[SethAbercromby]

Wrathful Scythe, on 23 March 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

DWF-PRIME

This is what I use. 84 dmg which I can fire 2 times in a row without overheating. After that I can still use the 2 CLPL with the Gauss without overheating. If the enemy is not twisting properly he is in for a world of hurt. In a 1 on 1 situation only the UAC/5 Dire or a lucky UAC/5 crab can kill me faster than I can kill them.

I think that's about the build that I met. Nasty stuff.

Diggin' your sig by the by.

[Reptilizer]

Totally agree with Bishop!
Take away some of the boom and make the Atlas tough as nails.
As is, the Fatlas is a "meh" mech in every department.
Give it a distinct trait! Let it be tough!

[meteorol]

SethAbercromby, on 23 March 2015 - 02:23 AM, said:

I think that's about the build that I met. Nasty stuff.

Diggin' your sig by the by.

Thats more or less the build 7 of 10 DWs use in public queue.

[Zoid]

I don't think it needs cooldown quirks so much as heat quirks. If I run my D-DC with 2 ERLL so I can do something at range besides hide, I overheat like crazy as soon as the SRMs start firing. The weapons you have to take combined with the engine size you have to take in order to be effective make it much too hot.

[Karl Streiger]

the Clan guys suggested it more than once:
give the atlas not instead death when loosing side torso and running XL
AS7-S
never again fodder for the fast

Edited by Karl Streiger, 23 March 2015 - 06:55 AM.