46 replies to this topic

[Grey Death Storm]

Hi All

I need ask how exactly does the ELO system work I need to know (The Short Version) as I am finding now a lot time that ever since the ELO system was introduced I am starting lose Matches in Droves!!!.

Problems I have encountered

I suspect This mainly due to being placed in teams that have virtually no experience in Piloting a battle mech yet alone being able to fight or kill an enemy Mechs!!.

The Main problem with strategy of weak team they ether sit hide behind some hill or mountain do nothing !!, Split up in little groups for some annoying reason get killed, crap themselves first signs laser or missile then hide behind a mountain do nothing!!, watch as their team mates get picked off 1 at a time.

I have noticed as if you get into trouble enemy mechs some your team mates just sit there and watch do nothing!!.

Another thing why is it at every time you try to reverse into cover after engaging the enemy you get some annoying team member that sits right behind you preventing you from retreating into cover the amount time i have died or lost important weapons because this is really annoying.

My Verdict

To be honest I am really starting to get tired and annoyed of playing this game it does have great potential !!. But..... To be honest i am trying find out if it is true what i suspect about the Elo System I.e it shoving Veteran player in with weak groups to help buffer there defense. And is there a way for me to escape Elo grip because if theirs not i don't see why should continue playing this game anymore as I am not enjoying playing this losing nearly every match.

Now dont get me wrong I have nothing against New player we have all been there our self's. But it does start to get really annoying if you are place in with weak team in nearly every single match!!

And the fact that now we compete in 12 Vs 12 makes it even more harder win a match as comes down how well your team do in battle. 8 Vs 8 = good mechwarrior should be able kill 3 mechs and pretty much turns tide in your teams favor however not in 12 vs 12 you kill 3 mechs still got 9 to contend with and if the rest team dies you die.

[Davers]

Death Storm, on 19 March 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

To be honest I am really starting to get tired and annoyed of playing this game it does have great potential !!. But..... To be honest i am trying find out if it is true what i suspect about the Elo System I.e it shoving Veteran player in with weak groups to help buffer there defense. And is there a way for me to escape Elo grip because if theirs not i don't see why should continue playing this game anymore as I am not enjoying playing this losing nearly every match.

Now dont get me wrong I have nothing against New player we have all been there our self's. But it does start to get really annoying if you are place in with weak team in nearly every single match!!

Good players are not being asked to 'carry' bad players. That's not how it works.

When a match is created, it starts with the 'oldest' person in the queue, then creates a match looking for people within 50 points of him. After 2.5 (could just be 2) minutes it slowly starts expanding the Elo parameters.

If you want better MM, then check more than one game mode.

And stop backing up all the time.

[Bhael Fire]

Elo works like this: It hates you and wants to kill you until you rage quit.

If it fails at that, then it matches you up against noobs and lets you punish them as sadistically as you want.

And that's how Elo works.

Now go play and get some Lucky Charms.

[terrycloth]

"...crap themselves at first sign of laser or missile hide behind a mountain..."
"...every time I try to back up into cover..."

Prognosis: low empathy

What you're describing is all lack of coordination rather than individual skill. Once you group up, you can either sit in place (bad) or all move somewhere at once (good) or one or more people can try to get the blob moving but not everyone follows them (bad).

'I'm being shot and my teammates aren't helping!' This usually means one of two things: Your shiny metal butt is blocking their line of fire to the enemies, or they're not in range of the enemies.

'crap themselves first sign of laser or missile...' They probably walked around a corner and saw three or four mechs shooting at them, and don't trust anyone else to push with them, so they're trying to wait for the enemy to advance into the guns of the mechs they're waiting around the corner with. Hopefully one at a time. (this probably won't happen)

And the person behind you as you 'reversed into cover' was trying to step out with you and focus fire, but you decided to go hide instead.

It's all a lack of coordination, which is as much your fault as anyone's.

[Dirkdaring]

I think its working great. In the last month I've been in a lot of close games. Good fun! Whatever they are doing, its working IMO.

[Vlad Striker]

Try to command if you encountered passive team. They not cowards they just do not know what to do. But I am sure team complectation is like "average patiemts temperature at hospital". Average ELO may be the same both team but team with mid-ELO players will win vs different low and high ELO team.

[Mudhutwarrior]

No one really knows how elo works. They will tell you they do but there is no documentation to back it up.

Wish these threads would stop because we just create more fraudulent experts that really don't know jack. They heard it from some other supposed expert.

[Davers]

Mudhutwarrior, on 19 March 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

No one really knows how elo works. They will tell you they do but there is no documentation to back it up.

Wish these threads would stop because we just create more fraudulent experts that really don't know jack. They heard it from some other supposed expert.

My explanation comes from PGI, more specifically Karl Berg. You can find it in the Karl Berg thread in Offtopic.

[Mystere]

Death Storm, on 19 March 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

And is there a way for me to escape Elo grip ...

Go play in Community Warfare.

[Mycrus]

Group up and seed your game with better players

[Wintersdark]

Mudhutwarrior, on 19 March 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

No one really knows how elo works. They will tell you they do but there is no documentation to back it up.

Wish these threads would stop because we just create more fraudulent experts that really don't know jack. They heard it from some other supposed expert.

We do know how Elo really works, in some great detail, directly from (initially) Paul's post about how its calculated and then Karl's megathread where he details the specific matchmaker algorithms (see Davers post for the nutshell version).

Karl's thread in particular has a great deal of back and forth about the details of the system, pros and cons of various ideas such as group size modifiers, one score/one score per weight class(what we have now)/one score per chassis etc.

The system is actually very simple, actually, and despite peoples cries it doesn't ever "make you lose" or crap like that (it doesn't care about any specific player, after all, that particular idea is incredibly narcissistic), it just does the best it can getting players of like Elo ratings into a match together.

Its constrained by player counts - we have lots of players, but the vast majority are roughly average and they taper off in numbers very quickly towards the far ends of the bell curve. So, you'll tend to see some more diverse teams involving high or low Elo players (both are, in terms of percentage of actual population, very rare), particularly when playing at off hours.

In those cases, its not a matchmaker fail, as it only has access to players currently queued, and needs to get everyone into matches inside a couple minutes.

[Grey Death Storm]

Okay guys thank you all for your input will answer all your opinions tomorrow, today's been a long day at work and im tired so you will here my thoughts tomorrow again thank for you valuable thoughts Cheers

[Goose]

Most statesmen about Elo are ether plausibly deniable, or else mooted by all the release valves going off, supposedly for "low population" reasons.

We can only how the Steam release works out the way we want …

[Grey Death Storm]

Vlad Striker, on 19 March 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

Try to command if you encountered passive team. They not cowards they just do not know what to do. But I am sure team complectation is like "average patiemts temperature at hospital". Average ELO may be the same both team but team with mid-ELO players will win vs different low and high ELO team.

Yeah i hear what your saying, how put this so doesn't sound like being rude in any way I don't have time or patient to command a lance id rather player be able more less watch what you are doing follow suit i.e back you up. but some these player dont seem understand that or even care about that principle

Mystere, on 19 March 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

Go play in Community Warfare.

Ive been avoiding Community Warfare for time being until they take it out beta and fix the queue issue, there's been time you could be queuing for 20 - 30 mins. anyway how is Community Warfare coming along ?

[XX Sulla XX]

Just curios what is your win loss ratio?

[Grey Death Storm]

Mudhutwarrior, on 19 March 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

No one really knows how elo works. They will tell you they do but there is no documentation to back it up.

Wish these threads would stop because we just create more fraudulent experts that really don't know jack. They heard it from some other supposed expert.

Your 100% correct in your statement, ive been in this game for 3 - 4 years remember time when you would win 8 - 10 match and you would lose odd 2 - 3 matches i miss these days, but once ELO was introduced you lost 10 -12 matches and win the odd 2 - 3 matches.

[kapusta11]

Egomane, where are you? We need some whiteknighting.

[Grey Death Storm]

terrycloth, on 19 March 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

"...crap themselves at first sign of laser or missile hide behind a mountain..."
"...every time I try to back up into cover..."

Prognosis: low empathy

What you're describing is all lack of coordination rather than individual skill. Once you group up, you can either sit in place (bad) or all move somewhere at once (good) or one or more people can try to get the blob moving but not everyone follows them (bad).

Yes you are correct that is what im describing however in previous thread should mention i have been playing this game for at least 4 years and more so a Veteran pilot. When you become veteran you start notice all these weak behavior habits that you described by other players and this what lead me to my conclusion regarding ELO.

Quote

'I'm being shot and my teammates aren't helping!' This usually means one of two things: Your shiny metal butt is blocking their line of fire to the enemies, or they're not in range of the enemies.

I never stated that in my previous thread!!, and i at least keep my distance other players when they reverse rather that block or go right in front someone.

Quote

'crap themselves first sign of laser or missile...' They probably walked around a corner and saw three or four mechs shooting at them, and don't trust anyone else to push with them, so they're trying to wait for the enemy to advance into the guns of the mechs they're waiting around the corner with. Hopefully one at a time. (this probably won't happen)

True what your saying but also bad move if stand there the enemy will just pick you off 1 at time need keep fighting back or find better advantage point Never Sit same location!!!.

Quote

And the person behind you as you 'reversed into cover' was trying to step out with you and focus fire, but you decided to go hide instead.

that is rubbish, good player will back you up bad player just sit behind you do nothing get in the way

[Grey Death Storm]

Wintersdark, on 19 March 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

We do know how Elo really works, in some great detail, directly from (initially) Paul's post about how its calculated and then Karl's megathread where he details the specific matchmaker algorithms (see Davers post for the nutshell version).

Karl's thread in particular has a great deal of back and forth about the details of the system, pros and cons of various ideas such as group size modifiers, one score/one score per weight class(what we have now)/one score per chassis etc.

The system is actually very simple, actually, and despite peoples cries it doesn't ever "make you lose" or crap like that (it doesn't care about any specific player, after all, that particular idea is incredibly narcissistic), it just does the best it can getting players of like Elo ratings into a match together.

Its constrained by player counts - we have lots of players, but the vast majority are roughly average and they taper off in numbers very quickly towards the far ends of the bell curve. So, you'll tend to see some more diverse teams involving high or low Elo players (both are, in terms of percentage of actual population, very rare), particularly when playing at off hours.

In those cases, its not a matchmaker fail, as it only has access to players currently queued, and needs to get everyone into matches inside a couple minutes.

Yea I did read pauls review on Elo found very long.... did not get full understanding what he was trying to say I can see where you are coming from what you are say good point

kapusta11, on 21 March 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

Egomane, where are you? We need some whiteknighting.

Im not Trolling !!!

XX Sulla XX, on 21 March 2015 - 02:33 AM, said:

Just curios what is your win loss ratio?

1:39 it was a lot higher at one point but its been steadily declining duo bad matches

[Appogee]

Mudhutwarrior, on 19 March 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

No one really knows how elo works. They will tell you they do but there is no documentation to back it up.

Not true.

See here: http://mwomercs.com/...97#entry3309097

You're welcome.