112 replies to this topic

[Triban]

I believe the whine from the clans getting marginal bonuses is because they are forgetting a key piece of equipment that all clans have access to, and the IS can only dream of. The targeting computer.

This badass piece of equipment gives you increased range, crit chance, velocity, zoom, and target info, for cheap. The inner sphere get the command console, which continues to be a joke comparatively speaking. When considering quirks, ALWAYS consider your considerably lower weapon weight and the considerably superior Targeting Computer (not to mention your uber XLS).

Discuss.


Targeting Computer Mk. I
Weight: 1 ton.
Slots: 1 slot.

• +4.5 zoom
  
• + 2.25 sensor range
  
• + 2.25 beam weapon buffs
  
• + 4.5 projectile buff
  
• + 7.25 critical chances
  
• + 22.5 Info gathering

Command Console

Now let’s take a look at the Inner Sphere Command Console, which will be sharing functionality similar to the Targeting Computers.

NOTE: Once again, all values are placeholders.

Command Console
Weight: 3 tons.
Slots: 1 slot.
Zoom distance: [+5.25]%
Sensor range: [+6.0]%
Time to gather target info: [-20.5]%

Edited by Triban, 23 March 2015 - 12:32 PM.

[Rhaythe]

Whatever you just did, man...! Don't!! Stop!! ABORT!!

[InRev]

Dude. Copy paste into notepad first, then the forum

[Triban]

InRev, on 23 March 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

Dude. Copy paste into notepad first, then the forum

Forgot to paste as plain text.

Fixed!

[Abisha]

target computer MKI is worth the 1 ton pass it is just butterfly effect total useless.

[Aethon]

A targeting computer is not a free bonus; they take extra weight and crits. Please stop comparing them with quirks.

[stjobe]

Eject! Eject! Eject!



Edit: Oh, I see the OP has cleaned up his post. Carry on

Edited by stjobe, 23 March 2015 - 10:52 AM.

[Triban]

Aethon, on 23 March 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

A targeting computer is not a free bonus; they take extra weight and crits. Please stop comparing them with quirks.

Weight: 1 ton.
Slots: 1 slot.

For 4.5% range increase, along with other great bonuses, who WOULDN'T take it? Give IS access to the TG if you think it isn't worth it.

Edited by Triban, 23 March 2015 - 10:52 AM.

[Abisha]

Triban, on 23 March 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

Weight: 1 ton.
Slots: 1 slot.

For 4.5% range increase, along with other great bonuses, who WOULDN'T take it? Give IS access to the TG if you think it isn't worth it.

do you really think 4.5% range on a 380 meter ranged weapon gonna matter that much?.

[FupDup]

I think that the TC1 is slightly too good for its low opportunity costs, but on the other hand all of the higher up TCs above it suffer from diminishing returns pretty significantly.

So, what I would do as hypothetical president of MWO would be to slightly nerf the TC1, but then actually buff the bigger TCs at the same time. I'd probably try a linear or almost linear formula with them. Maybe exponential where it starts small but gets huge when you pack on a whopping massive TC7?


EDIT: And yes the Command Console is also pretty horribad right now. I think that the current attempt to just slap on random and arbitrary sensor bonuses for the CC is just dumb. I'd remove the majority of them and make the TC give you an extra consumable slot and allow the user to equip both Artillery Strikes and Airstrikes at the same time. Having the ability to lock multiple doritos simultaneously would also be a great way to spice it up.

Edited by FupDup, 23 March 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[Asrrin]

Abisha, on 23 March 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

do you really think 4.5% range on a 380 meter ranged weapon gonna matter that much?.

when you combine it with a 10% module to get ~430m it goes from just short of the sweet spot of engagements to just the right spot. It's totally worth it. And you get crit chance, target time, and zoom on top of it? please!

[Greenjulius]

Those are incorrect values. Beam ranges were all cut down. Let me look for the current ones.

Edit: Here they are

STATS.................................TC Mk1.....TC Mk2.....TC Mk3.....TC Mk4.....TC Mk5.....TC Mk6.....TC Mk7....
Weight................................. 1Ton.........2Ton..........3Ton..........4Ton..........5Ton...........6Ton...........7Ton....
Slots.....................................1Slot.........2Slot..........3Slot..........4Slot..........5Slot..........6Slot...........7Slot....
Zoom distance.....................+4.5%.......+6.5%........+8.5%........+10.5%......+12.0%......+13.5%.......+15.0%.
Sensor range......................+2.25%.....+3.25%......+4.25%......+5.25%......+6.0%........+6.75%.......+7.5%....
Time to gather target info....-22.5%......-32.5%......-42.5%.......-52.5%.......-60.0%.......-67.5%.......-75.0%...
Projectile speed...................+4.5%.......+6.5%........+8.5%........+10.5%......+12.0%......+13.5%.......+15.0%..
Beam weapon ranges..........+2.25%.....+3.25%......+4.25%......+5.25%......+6.0%........+6.75%.......+7.5%....
Beam weapon max ranges...+2.25%.....+3.25%......+4.25%......+5.25%......+6.0%........+6.75%.......+7.5%....
Increased crit chance...........+7.5%.......+8.25%......+9.25%......+10.25%....+11.0%......+11.75%.....+12.25%.

Edited by Greenjulius, 23 March 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[Christof Romulus]

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Damn it, don't TELL them that the piece of equipment they tear from their mechs for added tonnage is effectively the quirks they're asking for!

They'll actually start using them... but won't stop complaining.

[Triban]

FupDup, you sir, are very reasonable.

Mainly though, I'm curious if the clan players think that the TC balances out the small quirks given to them. I do not care for a tonnage/slot argument as Clan weapons are already far lighter to IS equivalents. Also keep in mind no ST death and incredible speeds for their XL engines when discussing balance.

[Steve Pryde]

Fear it, Freebirths:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7a790007961d60c

[AlphaToaster]

While I enjoy the bonus from the TC1, mainly for the Target info speed, the rest I would trade for reduced CD, reduced HEAT, or reduced BEAM DURATION. Small % increases to zoom and sensors aren't noticeable. Projectile speed doesn't help if the shots from our AC's are spread apart, would be more of a bonus to say reduce time between shots on AC to bring the spread in a bit.

Not saying TC's are crap, but they're not as much of an impact as IS quirks by quite a bit.

If TC3 Compared to the Command Console? Command Console needs some serious love to justify 3 tons, and the TC3 does take 3 lots to the Command Consoles 1. That means a lot on a clan mech w/ all the fixed internals we have.

IMO if they brought the Target info speed on the command console to match the value on the TC3, it would be more balanced.

[Abisha]

Asrrin, on 23 March 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

when you combine it with a 10% module to get ~430m it goes from just short of the sweet spot of engagements to just the right spot. It's totally worth it. And you get crit chance, target time, and zoom on top of it? please!

it's still only 17,1 Meters extra but cost a ton for so little improvement.
crit chance sounds like OMG but really it's just looks better then it's really is mechs without armor already have hugh risk of critical chance that bit more really is not add any serious befit. Zoom i wonder if that even works i never see any better zoom with or without it.
target time.... we playing same game?

[Nori Silverrage]

With the exception of range and velocity none of the bonuses it provides are given via quirks usually. Also I don't believe anyone was complaining about not getting range quirks. What they are complaining about is a -4% duration which would bring a LPL from 1.1 to 1.056... Yippy. Meanwhile a large chunk of IS mechs have -10% to -25% duration on already low duration weapons. The LPL for instance, it is already at 0.67 which is 40% less than the CLPL, add on a -15% duration and you are down to 0.57 which is a 48% bonus over CLPL.

Do mechs like the Crow, Dire or Timber need lower duration? No, they seem fine as is, but the mechs they "buffed" like the Adder could get significantly increased survivability (less face time) by getting a 15% duration reduction. That CLPL would go down to 0.935 which would actually be quite nice.

Edited by Nori Silverrage, 23 March 2015 - 11:08 AM.

[Fonzie260]

This is the dumbest argument I have seen...


Clan's get this but IS doesn't.... IS get's that but clans don't....


Jezzzzz.... play both sides and you win..... balance achieved.

[FupDup]

Also, in regards to the idea that the TC bonuses are like quirks...

They're really not. The key differences are:

• The TC can be used by all Clan robots equally (including the already good ones), whereas quirks would only benefit specific target units.
  
• The TC's bonuses don't account for innate mech weaknesses like lacking pod space or durability etc.
  
• The TC isn't built into the mech by default, it requires you to spend weight and slots.
  
• The bonuses aren't really significant enough to make up for the drawbacks of certain less fortunate chassis...