214 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

so...stop posting on it? And it wasn't light hearted, it was meant to be rathe rscathing. Failed at that too. As for derailing before it starts? Pretty well established, Ulti's kibitzing notwithstanding.

Anyhow, if you're tired of it, the door is over yonder.

Dude, at this point, you're becoming like BLOOD WOLF when he was more active on these discussions (which ironically was a bad idea). If someone doesn't agree with the OP's POV, they are told to "go away". That's not how to foster a discussion.

The question is whether or not the Grid Iron is overly ridiculous in its quirks. It doesn't feel like there's overwhelming support for your POV honestly, from what I've read so far.

It is what it is.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 March 2015 - 12:08 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 26 March 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

Dude, at this point, you're becoming like BLOOD WOLF when he was more active on these things. If someone doesn't agree with the OP's POV, they are told to "go away". That's not how to foster a discussion.

The question is whether or not the Grid Iron is overly ridiculous in its quirks. It doesn't feel like there's overwhelming support for your POV honestly, from what I've read so far.

It is what it is.

You are the one who says he's tired of the post. So, when I get tired of something? I leave. Instead you keeping wasting your time and mine.

Twist it how you will.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 26 March 2015 - 12:08 PM.

[Michael Abt]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

(...)
But I forgot, you are so much better an HBK pilot than me and everyone else. Yes, RoF only benefits the bads.

SMH.

Getting personal, are we? Ok, if that is the way you wish to go then i have no reason to continue this discussion.

[Bishop Steiner]

Michael Abt, on 26 March 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

Getting personal, are we? Ok, if that is the way you wish to go then i have no reason to continue this discussion.

Replied in kind to your backhanded comment about pilots who can aim and mediocre pilots, surgeons and butchers, etc?

Oh, wait, you mean that wasn't meant as a veiled insult?

So maybe, if you can take the patronizing superiority comments out, there would be something to discuss. You went there, I simply followed your script to the conclusion.

[anonymous161]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Ah, Hunchbacks. My favorite IS chassis. The workhorse of Closed Beta to present. Decently hard hitting, slow, well scaled XL Death traps. How do I love thee?

Except, (and this is the part that will get people wanting to lynch me) there is a whiff of a "P2W", nespotic fox in the hen house.

The GridIron.

In general, the HBKs were one of the best examples of how to quirk things toward each variant having its role and weapon identity. Not perfect, I have other threads about how I would change quirking in general, but in the system we got, pretty well done.

Over initial weeks, there was some QQ about the apidity of the big gun. But over time, that largely faded, as people came to realize that the HBK is still a slow, 50 ton mech, with 50 ton mech armor. It can punch hard, but it can't take much of one, in return, especially in these days of ever increasing alphas.

So, the issue? What makes the Gridiron a point of contention for me?

Exhibit A:
HBK-4G
Torso Pitch: 25 °
TORSO TURN RATE (YAW): 37.50 %
TORSO TURN RATE (PITCH): 10.00 %
ADDITIONAL ARMOR (RT): 18.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 12.00
AC/20 RANGE: 12.50 %
BALLISTIC RANGE: 12.50 %
AC/20 COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
BALLISTIC COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
AC/20 VELOCITY: 12.50 %
BALLISTIC VELOCITY: 12.50 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -15.00 %
ENERGY RANGE: 15.00 %

GRID IRON
Torso Pitch: 25 °
TORSO TURN RATE (YAW): 37.50 %
TORSO TURN RATE (PITCH): 10.00 %
ADDITIONAL ARMOR (RT): 18.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 12.00
MEDIUM PULSE LASER RANGE: 25.00 %
ENERGY RANGE: 25.00 %
MEDIUM PULSE LASER COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
GAUSS RIFLE COOLDOWN: 25.00 %
BALLISTIC COOLDOWN: 25.00 %
MISSILE COOLDOWN: 15.00 %

HBK-4H
TORSO TURN RATE (YAW): 37.50 %
TORSO TURN RATE (PITCH): 10.00 %
ADDITIONAL ARMOR (RT): 18.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT):
12.00 AC/10 RANGE: 10.00 %
BALLISTIC RANGE: 10.00 %
AC/10 COOLDOWN: 10.00 %
BALLISTIC COOLDOWN: 10.00 %
MEDIUM LASER COOLDOWN: 10.00 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 10.00 %
MEDIUM LASER HEAT GENERATION: -10.00 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -10.00 %

HBK-4J
TORSO TURN RATE (YAW): 37.50 %
TORSO TURN RATE (PITCH): 10.00 %
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 12.00
LRM 10 COOLDOWN: 25.00 %
MISSILE COOLDOWN: 25.00 %
LRM 10 HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 %
MISSILE HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -15.00 %
ADDITIONAL ARMOR (RT): 12.00
LASER DURATION: -15.00 %

HBK-4P
TORSO TURN RATE (YAW): 37.50 %
TORSO TURN RATE (PITCH): 10.00 %
ADDITIONAL ARMOR (RT): 18.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 12.00
MEDIUM LASER COOLDOWN: 7.50 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 7.50 %
MEDIUM LASER DURATION: -7.50 %
LASER DURATION: -7.50 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -10.00 %

HBK-4SP
TORSO TURN RATE (YAW): 37.50 %
TORSO TURN RATE (PITCH): 10.00 %
ADDITIONAL ARMOR (LT): 12.00
ADDITIONAL ARMOR (RT): 12.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LT): 12.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 12.00
SRM 6 COOLDOWN: 20.00 %
MISSILE COOLDOWN: 20.00 %
LASER DURATION: -25.00 %
MEDIUM LASER HEAT GENERATION: -10.00 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -10.00 %

Catch the discrepancy?

Other Ballistics, you see 20-25% TOTAL cooldown. The Gridiron matches that with it's generic ballistics quirks, then DOUBLES it with it's specialized Gauss quirk. It's literally a better HBK-4G and HBK-4H, on top of being well, a ridiculously rapid firing Gauss monster.

The Missile versions have similar cooldown buffs, but the weapon systems themselves are severely less effective, with more wasted ammo, worse heat, the SRMs having a massively short range, and neither one carrying enough ammo to really be as game changing as the buffs might indicate.

Simple truth, I don't think ANY mech should need THAT severe a quirk to be viable. And it doesn't, it's totally out of line with the rest of the mechs, and could be argued for being about as broken as the old TDR-9S quirks were.

Mind you, the Gauss is heavy. It''s slow with a charge mechanic. And it's fragile, so it probably should be a little more quirked than the others. but I would say closer to a 35% total Cooldown, not 50%.

My personal take on better balanced quirks?

GRID IRON
Torso Pitch: 25 °
TORSO TURN RATE (YAW): 37.50 %
TORSO TURN RATE (PITCH): 10.00 %
ADDITIONAL ARMOR (RT): 18.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 12.00
MEDIUM PULSE LASER RANGE: 25.00 %
ENERGY RANGE: 25.00 %
MEDIUM PULSE LASER COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
GAUSS RIFLE COOLDOWN: 25.00 %
BALLISTIC COOLDOWN: 10.00 %
GAUSS RIFLE HITPOINT INCREASE: +10.00

Cheers! Feel free to post well thought out counterarguments, optional proposals, etc.


​Anyhow, just my 2 cts for the afternoon, with that, as I am sure the QQ from those who feel their pet ride and honor have been impugned will be rather intense..... I leave you with

I think you have way too much free time on your hands. I get being part of the community but damn your post count is ridiculous lol.

[Juodas Varnas]

Let's keep the discussion civil guys.
No need to be act like complete clanners about it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Darth Bane001, on 26 March 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

I think you have way too much free time on your hands. I get being part of the community but damn your post count is ridiculous lol.

Cool story bro. Useful contribution as always. Stay frosty.

[1453 R]

Freely admitting I haven't read much past the first page of the thread, but after recent experiences in mah new Huggin...

I'm going to repeat once again that anything with a 50% quirk, or even just a 40% quirk, especially for heat reduction or cooldown, is too much in a game where we also have 12% modules and 5% Fast Fire pilot skills. Get all of that to stacking up together and...well, I dropped a Grasshopper earlier this morning by snugging up to its bellybutton and holding down the SRM-4 trigger until it cored out. it took me less than ten seconds, and the 'Hopper didn't even breach my armor - and this is me on a Huggin without even full basics yet, let alone Fast Fire or double basics. Just the natural quirk and the SRM-4 module I snagged for it.

The Huggin would still be a dangerous missile cruiser with a 30% base quirk (and the SRM-4 module, and Fast Fire, and...). As it stands? I'm enjoying the thing tremendously, but also feeling a good bit like I've somehow hacked my game client. It's too much. If I can get behind an assault 'Mech - and this is Puglandia, I can get behind assault 'Mechs in a 280XL Raven - there's not much it can do to stop me from ramming missiles up its butt until it vomits explosions out the other end.

Nothing needs 50% quirks in this game. Not the Huggz, not the Gridiron, not the DRG-1N, not the Trebuchets, not the Thuds. Nothing. If anything, decrease these ridiculous quirks and roll bits of them into the base weapons. You shouldn't need a 40% PPC velocity quirk to make PPCs good - how about a base 20% velocity increase for PPCs and then 20% quirks for dedicated PPC machines? How about cutting refire rate for SPheroid SRM systems by half a second or so default, then slimming down some of the stupidly overdone refire quirks? Mebbe that's where the benefit of the heavier Spheroid launchers vs. Clan systems comes in?

There has to be something we can do other than just give random chassis picked out of a hat a bunch of supermegaultragunz and then say "use these, you'll beat those damn dirty Clanners! And/or whoever you're Commodity Warfare-ing against next!" There just has to.

[Bishop Steiner]

Juodas Varnas, on 26 March 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

Let's keep the discussion civil guys.

*snorts*

Do you even internet bro?

1453 R, on 26 March 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Freely admitting I haven't read much past the first page of the thread, but after recent experiences in mah new Huggin...

I'm going to repeat once again that anything with a 50% quirk, or even just a 40% quirk, especially for heat reduction or cooldown, is too much in a game where we also have 12% modules and 5% Fast Fire pilot skills. Get all of that to stacking up together and...well, I dropped a Grasshopper earlier this morning by snugging up to its bellybutton and holding down the SRM-4 trigger until it cored out. it took me less than ten seconds, and the 'Hopper didn't even breach my armor - and this is me on a Huggin without even full basics yet, let alone Fast Fire or double basics. Just the natural quirk and the SRM-4 module I snagged for it.

The Huggin would still be a dangerous missile cruiser with a 30% base quirk (and the SRM-4 module, and Fast Fire, and...). As it stands? I'm enjoying the thing tremendously, but also feeling a good bit like I've somehow hacked my game client. It's too much. If I can get behind an assault 'Mech - and this is Puglandia, I can get behind assault 'Mechs in a 280XL Raven - there's not much it can do to stop me from ramming missiles up its butt until it vomits explosions out the other end.

Nothing needs 50% quirks in this game. Not the Huggz, not the Gridiron, not the DRG-1N, not the Trebuchets, not the Thuds. Nothing. If anything, decrease these ridiculous quirks and roll bits of them into the base weapons. You shouldn't need a 40% PPC velocity quirk to make PPCs good - how about a base 20% velocity increase for PPCs and then 20% quirks for dedicated PPC machines? How about cutting refire rate for SPheroid SRM systems by half a second or so default, then slimming down some of the stupidly overdone refire quirks? Mebbe that's where the benefit of the heavier Spheroid launchers vs. Clan systems comes in?

There has to be something we can do other than just give random chassis picked out of a hat a bunch of supermegaultragunz and then say "use these, you'll beat those damn dirty Clanners! And/or whoever you're Commodity Warfare-ing against next!" There just has to.

thank you for posting something constructive and to the point.

[Michael Abt]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Replied in kind to your backhanded comment about pilots who can aim and mediocre pilots, surgeons and butchers, etc?

Oh, wait, you mean that wasn't meant as a veiled insult?

So maybe, if you can take the patronizing superiority comments out, there would be something to discuss. You went there, I simply followed your script to the conclusion.

Yes, i did a broad generalization there. Point taken. You however addressed me personally, and that is a completely different level. At this point i have to agree with Deathlike.

Anyway, i take your other advise and leave this discussion.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

You are the one who says he's tired of the post. So, when I get tired of something? I leave. Instead you keeping wasting your time and mine.

Twist it how you will.

If you have to get the last word in... then whatever.

I had an interesting discussion when it came to the GaussJager builds (I don't run any, so my understanding isn't good at running them, only shooting them down).

My preference and thinking of the buffs is to favor the one with the best cooldown. The obvious reason is damage and not necessarily DPS, but just frequency of chucking dual Gauss out often.

Others had competing ideas such as range, where the cooldown rate was not the most important (still useful nontheless), so that they can snipe with more optimal range for max damage.

The thing about these discussions is not that there's "one right way", but there's always multiple looks over the same perceived issue or topic. As much as I'm a Gauss user (I'm not a dual Gauss user, unless you feed me a Dire Wolf), normally I would react more ardently for a nerf, but in the case of the Grid Iron.. is one really needed based on the potential loadouts of the your alternative options (of Hunchbacks)?

At least with the Thunderbolt-9S, there were legit arguments for them needing nerfs. I remember running 8 heat PPCs on Mordor (or was it Tourmaline... oh well)... it was a pretty damn good goto weapon for 7.5 heat ERPPCs that were made available. That obviously needed to be looked at (and it took what, 3 months before that was addressed? yay?).

I'm trying to be as civil as I can on the discussion, but if you're just going to ignore facts and opinions presented... then do you really want a discussion?

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 26 March 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Nothing needs 50% quirks in this game. Not the Huggz, not the Gridiron, not the DRG-1N, not the Trebuchets, not the Thuds. Nothing. If anything, decrease these ridiculous quirks and roll bits of them into the base weapons. You shouldn't need a 40% PPC velocity quirk to make PPCs good - how about a base 20% velocity increase for PPCs and then 20% quirks for dedicated PPC machines? How about cutting refire rate for SPheroid SRM systems by half a second or so default, then slimming down some of the stupidly overdone refire quirks? Mebbe that's where the benefit of the heavier Spheroid launchers vs. Clan systems comes in?

But this part, is the message I have been trying to broadcast since Quirks were announced. No matter how fun MG Gauss, and PMGSRMSPLAT Huggies are, they ain't balanced in and of themselves, and they in the long run don't contribute to balancing the game as a whole.

Michael Abt, on 26 March 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Yes, i did a broad generalization there. Point taken. You however addressed me personally, and that is a completely different level. At this point i have to agree with Deathlike.

Anyway, i take your other advise and leave this discussion.

bye.

[Jake Devlin]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Simple truth, I don't think ANY mech should need THAT severe a quirk to be viable. And it doesn't, it's totally out of line with the rest of the mechs, and could be argued for being about as broken as the old TDR-9S quirks were.

Here's the problem with that argument: The reason why the 9S was broken, is because it has the ability to boat 3+ ER PPC's. Between having high mounted hardpoints, being able to spread the weapons around the chassis so it could still fight while missing a torso, decent speed (even with aforementioned standard engine), no minimum range, and an extremely long range, the 9S was redonk.

The reason why 'Mechs like the Grid Iron, Dragon 1N, and Wolverine 6K (pre-requirkening) aren't TRULY broken, is because they all have a fatal Achilles Heel. For the Dragon and Wolverine, it's their right arm. Because that's the only place they could place their beefed up weapons (plus their hitboxes aren't too kind), as soon as that arm was gone, they were about as useful as a football bat. That, and you pretty much HAVE to run XL in them to take full advantage of the quirks.

The Grid Iron can only mount one Gauss Rifle, so it's not like a Cataphract running around with 2+ at 50% cooldown. Add on to that, the 50 tonner armor, and the fact that the Gauss gets critted REAL easy once you're out of that relatively thin armor, and even new players know to aim for that right hump, the Grid Iron is simply a glass cannon, albeit a righteous bad-ass of a glass cannon.

Edited by Jake Devlin, 26 March 2015 - 12:24 PM.

[WonderSparks]

As much as I love that firing rate on the Grid Iron, perhaps that sort of Gauss-pumping action would be better suited to, say... a Light Gauss Rifle? Smaller, lighter, weaker.
I hardly use my Grid Iron these days, so even if they did undo the huge cooldown quirk, it would not bother me too much. Heck, it might make my day easier, since I do sometimes see Grid Irons on the battlefield, and not all of them sport blue Doritos.

[Burktross]

Wrathful Scythe, on 26 March 2015 - 06:42 AM, said:

You can't lose it early on because your armor needs to be stripped off to get it critted.

Did somebody order through armor criticals?

[smokefield]

bishop everyone got the idea you dont like the quirks on Gi...that doesnt mean you are right. I played most of hunchs and i have a lot of games with both 4g and gi and in my experience the Gi require a much more tactical approach and much more carefull play. they are similar and both cover a different aspect and role in the game..and i think it is a good balance. no need to change anything in them atm.

[1453 R]

Deathlike, on 26 March 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

If you have to get the last word in... then whatever.

I had an interesting discussion when it came to the GaussJager builds (I don't run any, so my understanding isn't good at running them, only shooting them down).

My preference and thinking of the buffs is to favor the one with the best cooldown. The obvious reason is damage and not necessarily DPS, but just frequency of chucking dual Gauss out often.

Others had competing ideas such as range, where the cooldown rate was not the most important (still useful nontheless), so that they can snipe with more optimal range for max damage.

The thing about these discussions is not that there's "one right way", but there's always multiple looks over the same perceived issue or topic. As much as I'm a Gauss user (I'm not a dual Gauss user, unless you feed me a Dire Wolf), normally I would react more ardently for a nerf, but in the case of the Grid Iron.. is one really needed based on the potential loadouts of the your alternative options (of Hunchbacks)?

At least with the Thunderbolt-9S, there were legit arguments for them needing nerfs. I remember running 8 heat PPCs on Mordor (or was it Tourmaline... oh well)... it was a pretty damn good goto weapon for 7.5 heat ERPPCs that were made available. That obviously needed to be looked at (and it took what, 3 months before that was addressed? yay?).

I'm trying to be as civil as I can on the discussion, but if you're just going to ignore facts and opinions presented... then do you really want a discussion?

S'far as I can tell, the point was that the Gridiron gets the benefits of the other HBKs' full, weapon-specific loadouts in its one single general quirk, thus making it just as good at being an AC/20 'Mech as the 4G, or an AC/10 'Mech as the 4H, or what-have-you, while also being a crazyridiculous Rotary Gauss machine. I mean heck, we don't even have[ HAGs yet!

Anyways. I have no idea what's gone on in the rest of the thread to put a bee up Bishop's behind, but like I said - I can't see where 50% quirks are remotely fair in this game, in any 'Mech, for any reason. If the Huggz - arguably the worst (unquirked) Hero 'Mech ever released, and low on the ladder even by T5 standards - feels kinda like broken cheatbaggery with a 50% cooldown quirk, then how could anything even halfway useable feel any better with the same quirks?

[TheCharlatan]

I have a Grid Iron, and i never felt it was incredibly powerful. It's good, but not godly. But that's because i don't have it elited yet and don't have gauss cooldown modules. It's the interaction of these two with quirks that creates problems.

A normal gauss rifle has a 4 sec cooldown, plus a 0,75 charge.

If you consider the 50% cooldown reduction quirk, it shoots every 2.75 seconds, which is strong, but not OP.

When you put in both a cooldown 5 and a Fast Fire skill, you get a gauss rifle which fires every 2.15 seconds. It's a bit too fast.

I had Grid Irons just face tank me, while shooting shot after shot of heat free 15 damage slugs, while also shooting with their MPLs (which have a 25% cooldown quirk as well, that can get up to 40%, but at least they DO produce heat).

It's quirks need to factor the cooldown modules. A 20% gauss cooldown+20% balistic cooldown would be fine, and make the GI work as the sniper it's supposed to be instead of the crazy DPS brawler some people use it for.

[Bishop Steiner]

Jake Devlin, on 26 March 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

The Grid Iron can only mount one Gauss Rifle, so it's not like a Cataphract running around with 2+ at 50% cooldown. Add on to that, the 50 tonner armor, and the fact that the Gauss gets critted REAL easy once you're out of that relatively thin armor, and even new players know to aim for that right hump, and the Grid Iron is simply a glass cannon, albeit a righteous bad-ass of a glass cannon.

My problem with this is an inherent chassis based one.

Pretty much everything you said is true of every member of the HBK family, to some extent (they don't all pack Gauss, it's fragility being it's own issue, which does interconnect, and the SP of course has "baby humps"), yet you don't see the 4H or 4P or 4G with 50% cooldown (well, in the 4P heat reduction would be preferable). You do see 40ish percent on the missile HBKs, mostly because missiles are inherently mediocre, with severe limitations.

If I was to have a 35-50% cooldown on my 4G or 4H, or even a 25% heat generation on the 4P (let alone a 30-40-50% one.... it currently has a 10%.) people would be SCREAMING OP. And they would be absolutely correct.

Yes, GRs are fragile. And you can also engage with them well beyond the range of many mechs to retaliate, especially since you don't have to expose much. You have no heat. 2000 m/s projectile speed so hitting anything shy of a streaking Light at over 1 km is still childs play. My 4G has a tougher gun. One that costs me 7x more heat than the GR, and is realistically effective at under 500 meters, so I have to usually take far more punishment to effectively use it.

The 4G DOES get the velocity/range boost, which is nice. It's why it is real world useful to 500 meters, a little farther on money shots and hail marys. But that small increase to my combat envelope, combined with the fragility of Gauss, I have no issue if it were 10-15% higher cooldown. but not all 25%s are equal in this game, aka random 25% boost here is not always equal to random 25% boost there. The degree of cooldown quirk above and beyond the rest of the Chassis family is simply not justified but the tradeoff quirks on the other chassis.

35-40% pre module/skills is still rather significant, and if it needs more, as stated, buff the health of the GR itself some. The you don't have the fragility argument.

smokefield, on 26 March 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

bishop everyone got the idea you dont like the quirks on Gi...that doesnt mean you are right. I played most of hunchs and i have a lot of games with both 4g and gi and in my experience the Gi require a much more tactical approach and much more carefull play. they are similar and both cover a different aspect and role in the game..and i think it is a good balance. no need to change anything in them atm.

aside form the fact I can also do everything the 4G does also, at about 95% it's efficiency, sure.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 26 March 2015 - 12:38 PM.

[Metus regem]

1453 R, on 26 March 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Freely admitting I haven't read much past the first page of the thread, but after recent experiences in mah new Huggin...

I'm going to repeat once again that anything with a 50% quirk, or even just a 40% quirk, especially for heat reduction or cooldown, is too much in a game where we also have 12% modules and 5% Fast Fire pilot skills. Get all of that to stacking up together and...well, I dropped a Grasshopper earlier this morning by snugging up to its bellybutton and holding down the SRM-4 trigger until it cored out. it took me less than ten seconds, and the 'Hopper didn't even breach my armor - and this is me on a Huggin without even full basics yet, let alone Fast Fire or double basics. Just the natural quirk and the SRM-4 module I snagged for it.

The Huggin would still be a dangerous missile cruiser with a 30% base quirk (and the SRM-4 module, and Fast Fire, and...). As it stands? I'm enjoying the thing tremendously, but also feeling a good bit like I've somehow hacked my game client. It's too much. If I can get behind an assault 'Mech - and this is Puglandia, I can get behind assault 'Mechs in a 280XL Raven - there's not much it can do to stop me from ramming missiles up its butt until it vomits explosions out the other end.

Nothing needs 50% quirks in this game. Not the Huggz, not the Gridiron, not the DRG-1N, not the Trebuchets, not the Thuds. Nothing. If anything, decrease these ridiculous quirks and roll bits of them into the base weapons. You shouldn't need a 40% PPC velocity quirk to make PPCs good - how about a base 20% velocity increase for PPCs and then 20% quirks for dedicated PPC machines? How about cutting refire rate for SPheroid SRM systems by half a second or so default, then slimming down some of the stupidly overdone refire quirks? Mebbe that's where the benefit of the heavier Spheroid launchers vs. Clan systems comes in?

There has to be something we can do other than just give random chassis picked out of a hat a bunch of supermegaultragunz and then say "use these, you'll beat those damn dirty Clanners! And/or whoever you're Commodity Warfare-ing against next!" There just has to.

Yea.. I'm in the same boat, i did a CW drop with a DRG-1N the other night, and I felt kind of dirty racking up 5 kills with it, with just basics unlocked and no modules in it... the RoF on those AC 5's is kind of nuts.