63 replies to this topic

[Lordred]

TL:DR
As the title states, if (big if) PGI produced a hardcore follow to the letter of the law verbatim TT mode for testing. Would you play it?
/TL:DR

Edit:
This is just a discussion, please leave out "You just hate what PGI is doing"
That is not the case, if I hated what PGI was doing I would not have spent nearly as much money as I have on MWO, so lets just be civil.


That said, what I am talking about is a mode with the following:

1: All weapons having a 5 second cooldown dealing 1/2 TT damage generating 1/2 TT Heat. Double all Ammo values
(also consider mixing certian weapon types, or creating variants of each weapon with different CD times)
2: All 'Mechs and Armor restored to TT Values.
3: 30 point heat scale with HS only dissipating heat at 0.1 or 0.2 HPS per SHS/DHS
4: Addition of crits on Actuators, Engines, and gyros.
5: 1 JJ = 6 meters of vertical height regardless of speed. (edited from 9)
6: Delayed Convergence (1 to 2 seconds)
7: Clan 'Mechs and Tech at full power (Have MM make teams using BV first, and ELO second)
8: Mech Customization: Remove Hardpoints

A: Omnimechs Have locked Engine, Structure-Type, Armor-Type, Heatsink type, and Jump Jets, but may swap pods freely. If a player wishes to customize a pod layout, that pod will take 1 hour to modify, but then may be freely swapable.

B: Battlemechs have no restrictions other then only being able to equip Engines in whole MP from TT, but every modification takes time.
Swaping engines, Structure, Armor type, or Heatsink type, takes 1 hour PER change.
Modifications to Weapons, Ammo, or Heatsinks, takes 10 min per item.

9:Repair / Rearm:

A: Cannon mechs are free
B: Customized mechs would have a repair/rearm cost (But would have to be balanced carefully not to be impossible to run)


There you have it, thanks for reading, and let us know what you think.

Edited by Lordred, 27 March 2015 - 08:25 AM.

[Virgil Greyson]

Sign me up.

[Escef]

I'd be willing to try it. I don't think it would be worth the time to make it, but I'd be willing to try it.

[Alex Morgaine]

That what I wanted when I saw the CB info.
...
Mmmmyes

[Bishop Steiner]

Lordred, on 26 March 2015 - 08:51 PM, said:

TL:DR
As the title states, if (big if) PGI produced a hardcore follow to the letter of the law verbatim TT mode for testing. Would you play it?
/TL:DR


That said, what I am talking about is a mode with the following:

1: All weapons having a 5 second cooldown dealing 1/2 TT damage generating 1/2 TT Heat. Double all Ammo values
2: All 'Mechs and Armor restored to TT Values.
3: 30 point heat scale with HS only dissipating heat at 0.1 or 0.2 HPS per SHS/DHS
4: Addition of crits on Actuators, Engines, and gyros.
5: 1 JJ = 9 meters of vertical heigth regardless of speed.
6: Delayed Convergence (1 to 2 seconds)
7: Clan 'Mechs and Tech at full power (Have MM make teams using BV first, and ELO second)
8: Mech Customization: Remove Hardpoints

A: Omnimechs Have locked Engine, Structure-Type, Armor-Type, Heatsink type, and Jump Jets, but may swap pods freely. If a player wishes to customize a pod layout, that pod will take 1 hour to modify, but then may be freely swapable.

B: Battlemechs have no restrictions other then only being able to equip Engines in whole MP from TT, but every modification takes time.
Swaping engines, Structure, Armor type, or Heatsink type, takes 1 hour PER change.
Modifications to Weapons, Ammo, or Heatsinks, takes 10 min per item.

9:Repair / Rearm:

A: Cannon mechs are free
B: Customized mechs would have a repair/rearm cost (But would have to be balanced carefully not to be impossible to run)


There you have it, thanks for reading, and let us know what you think.

Yes.

Anything where there is a chance that mechs actually look like their canon equivalents instead of generic Meta chassis optimized to sword and board, I would sign up for in a heart beat.

Only thing I don't like is the Rof half damage nonsense. That would probably be a deal breaker for me.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 26 March 2015 - 09:13 PM.

[Lordred]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

Only thing I don't like is the Rof half damage nonsense. That would probably be a deal breaker for me.

I understand that is a point of contention for a lot of people, it is a fine line between making sure the weapons feel like they hurt when they hit, and having them over tuned, or under tuned.

I do not know if I could supply an answer other then simply asking if you would be willing to try it out before rendering a final judgement.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lordred, on 26 March 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

I understand that is a point of contention for a lot of people, it is a fine line between making sure the weapons feel like they hurt when they hit, and having them over tuned, or under tuned.

I do not know if I could supply an answer other then simply asking if you would be willing to try it out before rendering a final judgement.

I wish I could say yes, but I have done the mandatory and generic weapon cycle, and paper cut weapons before, and utterly hated both. I just cannot enjoy a game where a Machine Gun, Small LAser and Particle Cannon all have the same RoF without hating it.

While MWO, and especially he who shall not be named, have done ...less than desired on the balancing side, one of the things I truly enjoyed, especially in CB, in MWO, was the feel and differences between weapon types.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 26 March 2015 - 09:26 PM.

[Igorius]

Well, it's an easy enough fix. Go to a two or three second cooldown, and adjust the rest of the numbers accordingly. PPCs, big bore ACs, Gauss, can all stay at the five second setting. Put your smaller class of weapons at the shorter recycle, and it might work.

Oh, and I would play that mode in a heartbeat, OP. Seriously.

[Lordred]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

I wish I could say yes, but I have done the mandatory and generic weapon cycle, and paper cut weapons before, and utterly hated both. I just cannot enjoy a game where a Machine Gun, Small LAser and Particle Cannon all have the same RoF without hating it.

While MWO, and especially he who shall not be named, have done ...less than desired on the balancing side, one of the things I truly enjoyed, especially in CB, in MWO, was the feel and differences between weapon types.

Thanks for the input, but how would we (in theory) create such a feel and remain verbatim to TT, would we split some weapons up into paper-cut and others into BANG?


OP updated with possible amendem for weapon RoF

Edited by Lordred, 26 March 2015 - 09:36 PM.

[Lynx7725]

I don't see the harm in letting people try. Offhand, I don't think it translate well.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lordred, on 26 March 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

Thanks for the input, but how would we (in theory) create such a feel and remain verbatim to TT, would we split some weapons up into paper-cut and others into BANG?

Don't have the answer for you. I have no issue with big guns having big recycles. But small guns should cycle faster.

Hard part is finding the balance where one style doesn't heavily outweigh the other. We had that in CB, where basically it was all Mlasers for a bit,because damage for ton, it couldn't be beat.

I honestly feel the basic MWO weapon concepts are decent, but that some weapons simply need to be extended in their coolddowns. AC20s, LRM20s, Gauss, all 7-8 second cool downs. AC10s and PPCs 4-5, etc.

Big danger is trying to match DPS, because then for instance if a LRM5 fired 4x as often as an LRM20, why take the 20?

I liked MW3 weapons ok, overall, if I remember correctly.

I don't really know what to tell ya bro.

[Escef]

Lynx7725, on 26 March 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

I don't see the harm in letting people try.

The harm is allocating the dev and programmer time to it. If those devs and programmers are working on this project than they aren't working on things for the main game, which means fewer new mechs, fewer new maps, fewer bug fixes, fewer balance fixes, etc.

While I would be willing to try this proposed new mode if it came to be, I highly doubt it would be worth the resources poured into making it happen.

[Triordinant]

I'd definitely give it a try -especially if it's purely IS vs IS for a couple of years first.

[smokefield]

i would play any mechwarrior game...and i am playing this game atm...so what could be worse ?

[wolf74]

Note there are a Few thing you need to take into account.

Solaris VII (which gives us the Fire rate in a 2.5sec window) as well as a High heat weapon and Heat penalty on a Wider scale
Mechwarrior RPG (5sec windows) on how much a Pilot can do
Battletech (10sec windows) average performance of units
Aerotech (60sec window) Show Vacuum Ranges of weapons (if Memory is right 11,250m small Laser Range)
All the above are Part of Battletech Universe

Also Would you change the Auto-Perfect Convergence to a Manual Controlled where we the Mech Pilot are True Pilots? (Edit, Sorry just was re-reading OP post, Point 6, A Convergence delay was in Beta but due to many fact (many of which I due not know) changed over to Auto-Perfect Convergence path) This point need to be looked at Hard due to the fact Pulse Laser and Targeting Computer (IS does get them in 3058) had an effect on Convergence settting [personal I think it Traslate in to a Range Correction for this weapons of +-15m for TC and +-30m for Pulse Laser for the Pilot Manually Set point on a Locked target]


Weapon Ranges, Heat, Fire rate, and Damage are easy part which the player base can help code and submit. AKA unpack the File. The Rework of the Mechlab and Time change for custom mechs that would be the Much Harder part.

On the JumpJet it would be about
1st Jumpjet 6m Hight and 7.5m Range (any Direction, You much Goes someplace other than just up)
each Jumpjet Fired Afterward will give another 6m up Arc (1 Level in Solaris and Battletech was 6m) Or 7.5m Thurst (Thurst traslation are from the Solaris Rules to the 2.5 sec turns) in a Direct that is not 180deg form your Last Thurst, the Number Keypad on your Keyboard could work well for this Control Option.


7 Forward Right
8 Forward
9 Forward Left
4 Left
5 Higher Arc (Cannot be the 1st jumpjet hit)
6 Right
1 Left backwards
2 Backwards
3 Right Backwards

Edit: Convergence

Edited by wolf74, 26 March 2015 - 10:39 PM.

[Davers]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

Yes.

Anything where there is a chance that mechs actually look like their canon equivalents instead of generic Meta chassis optimized to sword and board, I would sign up for in a heart beat.

Only thing I don't like is the Rof half damage nonsense. That would probably be a deal breaker for me.

There is no chance for anything but 'generic meta chassis optimized to sword and board'. No Hardpoints? So anything can be put anywhere? Goodbye any mech with unfavorable hit boxes. TT armor values? Dual gauss/Dual PPC everywhere. This would not be a fun game mode.

[Karl Streiger]

Would give it a try - would be a kind of that short lived Assault Tech of Stompy Robots Aka MekTek

It think it won't work because of armor distribution - and basically all weapons would have to be considered as Linked to TC where a missed roll still is able to hit the target.

There is so much work to do - first has to be turn the Tt in a diceless game - when you did this and the game feels right a conversion to FPS can work.

100% pure figures without second thought are not a good idea - but really want to see more micro management, because its a shame when a Pen &Paper game from the 80's beat a computer game of the 21St century in every aspect

[Quxudica]

Lordred, on 26 March 2015 - 08:51 PM, said:

TL:DR
As the title states, if (big if) PGI produced a hardcore follow to the letter of the law verbatim TT mode for testing. Would you play it?
/TL:DR


That said, what I am talking about is a mode with the following:

1: All weapons having a 5 second cooldown dealing 1/2 TT damage generating 1/2 TT Heat. Double all Ammo values
(also consider mixing certian weapon types, or creating variants of each weapon with different CD times)
2: All 'Mechs and Armor restored to TT Values.
3: 30 point heat scale with HS only dissipating heat at 0.1 or 0.2 HPS per SHS/DHS
4: Addition of crits on Actuators, Engines, and gyros.
5: 1 JJ = 9 meters of vertical heigth regardless of speed.
6: Delayed Convergence (1 to 2 seconds)
7: Clan 'Mechs and Tech at full power (Have MM make teams using BV first, and ELO second)
8: Mech Customization: Remove Hardpoints

A: Omnimechs Have locked Engine, Structure-Type, Armor-Type, Heatsink type, and Jump Jets, but may swap pods freely. If a player wishes to customize a pod layout, that pod will take 1 hour to modify, but then may be freely swapable.

B: Battlemechs have no restrictions other then only being able to equip Engines in whole MP from TT, but every modification takes time.
Swaping engines, Structure, Armor type, or Heatsink type, takes 1 hour PER change.
Modifications to Weapons, Ammo, or Heatsinks, takes 10 min per item.

9:Repair / Rearm:

A: Cannon mechs are free
B: Customized mechs would have a repair/rearm cost (But would have to be balanced carefully not to be impossible to run)


There you have it, thanks for reading, and let us know what you think.

Loadout changes taking real time would get very obnoxious very quickly.

[wolf74]

Karl Streiger, on 26 March 2015 - 10:31 PM, said:

Would give it a try - would be a kind of that short lived Assault Tech of Stompy Robots

The AT1:Battletech only stop due the fact the Programer (Sake906) he been coding a few years working on it found a Good job so it was time for him to move on. I have the Last Working Copy posted up in this Thread http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4071810

Edited by wolf74, 26 March 2015 - 10:52 PM.

[Blue Boutique]

Lordred, on 26 March 2015 - 08:51 PM, said:

9:Repair / Rearm:

A: Cannon mechs are free
B: Customized mechs would have a repair/rearm cost (But would have to be balanced carefully not to be impossible to run)


There you have it, thanks for reading, and let us know what you think.

I would dismiss repair/rearm cost as it didn't work and add a time penalty such as one hour for a endosteel section. You could offset the time by buying Endosteel, XL engines, and Double Heatsinks for a huge sum of C-Bills or you could just have a standard set up and wait an hour for repairs.