558 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Titannium, on 14 June 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

played yesteday ONE CW match, still the same. 12 pugs, against 12 premades. Since begining 3-10, and so on.....

It remainds me, ill never play another CW match for a long time.

PGI, you buried that mod.

You should really join a unit. Disorganized PuGs shouldn't be in that mode. Either get organized on TS, or join a unit, and get organized that way.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

IraqiWalker, on 14 June 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

You should really join a unit. Disorganized PuGs shouldn't be in that mode. Either get organized on TS, or join a unit, and get organized that way.

Why cant we have PUG vs PUG only mod there ? ...... ill play that one.

[IraqiWalker]

Titannium, on 15 June 2015 - 12:13 AM, said:

Why cant we have PUG vs PUG only mod there ? ...... ill play that one.

Because the problem isn't PuG vs. group. It's DISORGANIZED PuGs, vs. anything else.

When you played that match, did people use voice comms? CW is a team focused mode. If people want to play solo rambo, they can do that in the public queue. In CW, organization is paramount.

I can guarantee you those pugs were going to lose, even against a PuGs only team, if the other team actually communicates even a bit.

[The Basilisk]

I did'n read all comments but the general tune is clear.

The one faction is complaining about ppl minmaxing and optimizing their group layout around certain game mechanics and about the fact that a organized, well-rehearsed team is allways stronger than a mixed or pure pug group.
Additionally this group demands a more enjoyable gameplay for ppl not inclined to get a regular group / unit for playing ( Basicaly they don't realy want teamplay but some kind of MMO singleplayer. Sounds weird but in fact there are several out there, think of StarTrek Online for example. )

The other faction says deal with it.
Get friends, join a unit.
This game is all about teamplay and competitiveness.
Adhere to game mechanics ( or exploit them me thinks ) no matter how ridiculous or contra lore they are.

The solution is easy and next to impossible for PGI at the same time.
Create a decent K.I. , do a campaign, create PvE content.
Those who want to participate at challanges and such things will have to do PvP those who are content with fighting bots and doing random things can pug and kill bots in random missions.
Since nothing points to PGI having developed the know how and technology to do so I don't think this will happen.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

well even in public, there are voice leading and thats fine, when someone in pug is doing that.

What i mean, is the i can take a loss , from another pug, even if they comunicate over coms. The other game we would do it , and will probably win.

What i do NOT want to play is 12 pugs vs 12 premades.
So id like to see PUG only queue there. (as 2nd option).

1) premades vs premades
2) pugs vs pugs.

not pugs x premades.

Edited by Titannium, 15 June 2015 - 04:05 AM.

[Black Ivan]

Problem is PG designed CW from the ground up that only organized units should take part in CW and Pugs should fill the gaps, they never thought that PUG only groups would hit in CW. The bad design of CW coupled with game desicions on other fronts lead to more than a few people leave CW forever, that is why there is so little CW population. Looking back to all the CW events, it looks like special rewards have to be give that CW works for a decent time at all, so the Powers that be are at least aware that CW is played very little.

What PGI do about? I don't know, PUG and organized Ques are a possible solution, but on the other had this won't bring back all the players that have already left, so there has to be a big effort to bring CW back to decent levels and make it enjoyable to anyone.

[IraqiWalker]

Titannium, on 15 June 2015 - 12:33 AM, said:

well even in public, there are voice leading and thats fine, when someone in pug is doing that.

What i mean, is the i can take a lose , from another pug, even if they comunicate over coms. The other game we would do it , and will probably win.

What i do NOT want to play is 12 pugs vs 12 premades.
So id like to see PUG only queue there. (as 2nd option).

1) premades vs premades
2) pugs vs pugs.

not pugs x premades.

We already have those queues. In the Public queue. CW was supposed to be about teamplay, mercs, and units. Solo play team deathmatch is all over the public queue. We shouldn't have it here as well. At the very least, the solo pugs should get on the faction teamspeak. I've been in matches where we beat 12 mans. It's not that difficult. As long as people coordinate.

[KinLuu]

IraqiWalker, on 15 June 2015 - 12:46 AM, said:

We already have those queues. In the Public queue. [...]

And it was a great change for everyone involved. Both queues are doing well.

IMHO it would also be a great change for CW.

[oldradagast]

KinLuu, on 15 June 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

And it was a great change for everyone involved. Both queues are doing well.

IMHO it would also be a great change for CW.

But that would take away the free stomps being handed out to the "elite" teams in CW. So, instead of making the obvious change you're suggesting, they whine about how everyone needs to "join a team" instead.

So, either a pile of them join a team and "get gud" - and are rewarded with doing the stomping in the future... yeah... exciting... or they join a team and are still terrible, changing nothing.

No, the current setup simply isn't working - the empty queues are proof enough of that. Skill-based match-maker would be ideal, but failing that, split the CW queues or simply don't put in group limits or some other such thing. The main reason nobody plays is because it's not worth waiting forever to find a game only to get stomped in a stupid match that was decided from the moment the pairings were made. Being put on the other side of the stomping doesn't change how boring and pointless it is, though some folks get their jollies from rolling PUG's and then shouting how "skilled" they are... lol...

[oldradagast]

pbiggz, on 14 June 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

I find your self pity off-putting. You seem to have this idea in your head that a team based game should not allow team play because it makes it too hard for you specifically to play. Get over yourself. This is a team game, it has always been a team game, and the moment it stops being a team game is the moment the game fails utterly.

Pffft - I find your utter inability to understand that pitting people of vastly different skill levels against each other in a game is boring and idiotic off-putting. You seem to have this idea in your head that MWO should be some sort of grand trial, and only the worthy should be allowed to enter the hallowed halls of CW. Get over yourself. This is a game, nothing more. Any game mode that requires people to grind out specific mechs - or spend a fortune on them - and turn that game into a second job to have a hope of competing (for basically nothing) is a dead game mode, and that's where CW is now.

No serious competitive game simply pits people of random skills against each other across the board, so either CW can get with the program and do what successful "high skill and super competitive" game modes do, or it can rot on the vine. And it seems a lot of "leet" players are fine with option two provided they still get their free wins against noobs handed to them and so long as they can trumpet their laughable "get gud!" nonsense on the forums. Play only against people of your own skill level instead of noobs, and then we can talk about how "gud" you are...

Edited by oldradagast, 15 June 2015 - 03:18 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

oldradagast, on 15 June 2015 - 03:13 AM, said:

But that would take away the free stomps being handed out to the "elite" teams in CW. So, instead of making the obvious change you're suggesting, they whine about how everyone needs to "join a team" instead.

So, either a pile of them join a team and "get gud" - and are rewarded with doing the stomping in the future... yeah... exciting... or they join a team and are still terrible, changing nothing.

No, the current setup simply isn't working - the empty queues are proof enough of that. Skill-based match-maker would be ideal, but failing that, split the CW queues or simply don't put in group limits or some other such thing. The main reason nobody plays is because it's not worth waiting forever to find a game only to get stomped in a stupid match that was decided from the moment the pairings were made. Being put on the other side of the stomping doesn't change how boring and pointless it is, though some folks get their jollies from rolling PUG's and then shouting how "skilled" they are... lol...

No one is saying "get gud", But FFS if it's a team mode, at least pretend to play as a team. Anyone that wants to rambo should really do that in the public solo queue. In CW, even as a solo pilot, I still jump on TS, and coordinate with the other folks. Takes less than a minute to do, and if by golly that makes the 12 of us who haven't met before an evil pre-made, then I don't know what to do anymore.

Evil premades aren't the problem. Too many people being too dumb, and too stubborn to understand that coordination is necessary in CW is the real problem. Seriously, if they don't want to play as a team, they shouldn't be in CW.

Let them make CW solo only tomorrow. Do you know what's gonna change? Nothing. Those that coordinate still stomp, and those that don't get stomped, and whine about God knows what else. This is right now, with CW being virtually insignificant. How do you think people will treat rambo morons when planets become worth something?

PGI gave us LFG, Faction Chat, and VOIP, and people still refuse to use those tools, and then whine about evil premades.

If me getting on the FRR hub, and coordinating with a few other people from other IS houses to defend a planet takes a minute, and gives us insane chances of winning is proof of anything, it's that groups or no groups, the real problem isn't the matchmaking.

Yeah, a balanced MM would be an improvement, but the no.1 thing that needs to change is the players. Solo rambos work about as well as they do in real live combat. Useless meat shields, and waste of rations. A coordinated group will trounce anyone, other than a more coordinated group.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 15 June 2015 - 03:35 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

iraqi: why are you denying the idea of 2 sepparate queues ?
OFC, it will cut off from current premades the "free" cbills income from 48-10 score, but it will definetly INCREASE the number of players, that will play CW.

I say, separate.

[Astrocanis]

Titannium, on 15 June 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

iraqi: why are you denying the idea of 2 sepparate queues ?
OFC, it will cut off from current premades the "free" cbills income from 48-10 score, but it will definetly INCREASE the number of players, that will play CW.

I say, separate.

Because of "supposedta" and "have fun any way you want to as long as it's my way." It's simple. He gets it. He just doesn't like it. Just like I get it - I HAVE to play with 11 of my best Internet buddies if I want to stand a chance. I don't like it.

He's winning. I'm not. But I -can- just take my marbles and go home. Which I'm doing. If I'm "supposedta" be in the public pug queue, so be it. If enough of us are put off by CW, they can enjoy their ghost town.

The only thing I like less than CW is Viridian Bog. At least I put up with the bog. But if I hear another moron in [pure numeric clan tag here] screaming at us for not following their orders BECAUSE THEY ARE ONLY BEING HEARD IN THEIR OWN TEAMSPEAK, it will be too soon. Being told "you morons need [insert purely numeric clan tag here] us for the carry" is really, really a good way to get people to try and to continue to participate in CW. You may be the best. In a video game. So what?

[Speedy Plysitkos]

OT:
to viridian bog.... a lot people hate it. I dont get it. From my POV, its one of the best maps in the game (together with HPG manifold). For my brawlers absolutely perfect. Ye the roots are pain, but its not boring (im talking about APLINE mountain biggest crap map EVER, its gud, when im skiing, but thats not yet possbile in MWO, or ). When im put into this map, i have always one finger in "quit the match" button.

What a horrible map.

[pbiggz]

Triordinant, on 14 June 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

This all happened back in the days when max team size was 8-mans. Your pathetic attempt to claim 12-man bashing has failed because YOU are spouting fiction -there were no 12-mans before Aug. 6, 2013.

Some people might have left for the reasons you said, but for the vast majority the main reason was being continually curbstomped by premade comp teams. Everything changed when PGI created the solo-only queue and everybody knows it. Unfortunately, it was way too late. Read the forums and patch notes from those days. See for yourself.

The difference between 8 and 12 doesn't make a difference here. The difference between disorganized pug and premade is important. Having premades face disorganized pugs is not ideal, you are right. But you are wrong to say that it is the defining reason that so many players left. So many players left because we had a two years of stale gameplay, poor decisions from the top level, and a semi-abusive relationship with the devs and mods. That does more to murder a game than your premade boogieman ever will.

[pbiggz]

oldradagast, on 15 June 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

Pffft - I find your utter inability to understand that pitting people of vastly different skill levels against each other in a game is boring and idiotic off-putting. You seem to have this idea in your head that MWO should be some sort of grand trial, and only the worthy should be allowed to enter the hallowed halls of CW. Get over yourself. This is a game, nothing more. Any game mode that requires people to grind out specific mechs - or spend a fortune on them - and turn that game into a second job to have a hope of competing (for basically nothing) is a dead game mode, and that's where CW is now.

No serious competitive game simply pits people of random skills against each other across the board, so either CW can get with the program and do what successful "high skill and super competitive" game modes do, or it can rot on the vine. And it seems a lot of "leet" players are fine with option two provided they still get their free wins against noobs handed to them and so long as they can trumpet their laughable "get gud!" nonsense on the forums. Play only against people of your own skill level instead of noobs, and then we can talk about how "gud" you are...

If you want to play CW, organize. The tools are there. Your problem right now is that you only want to play the game YOUR way, and nobody elses. Your giant paragraph boils down to "i can do what i want, **** everyone else, i should be able to lone wolf and win". In a team game, that can never be true. If you want to have fun in CW, either join a unit, or get on a faction teamspeak.

My unit has its own teamspeak, but when we play MWO, we jump onto our contracted faction TS and play with people there. People from all skill levels come together and coordinate, and win or lose, we have a lot more fun that way. You make more friends that way, you learn something from the players in higher skill levels and you have an opportunity to teach those in skill levels below you that you will never get if you don't PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN A TEAM GAME.

[AdamBaines]

Titannium, on 07 June 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

Once it hit steam, it will bring new people, at least for a month, but forum, will turn into jankyard.
You will see.

The COD players will turn this forum on fire.

I guess you were not here 1+ years ago? The forums were very much on fire. Not saying it wont happen again (because it will in some form), but PGI is handling things better now then when they were partnering with IGP.

The fire will come, but I'm not much worried about it.

[Sjorpha]

Titannium, on 15 June 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

iraqi: why are you denying the idea of 2 sepparate queues ?
OFC, it will cut off from current premades the "free" cbills income from 48-10 score, but it will definetly INCREASE the number of players, that will play CW.

I say, separate.

I always play in a group, and I can assure you that we vastly prefer fighting other groups over fighting pugs. Stomping pugs is super boring, so I would love to split the queues, if there was enough players.

The problem is: is there enough players for that to work? And what happens when pugs can't fill the gaps in groups smaller than 12? I think splitting the queues would be quite difficult to pull off in practice, it might become almost impossible to get matches.

Now at least it is easy to get a match going, it's not ideal but it is what it is currently.

Edited by Sjorpha, 15 June 2015 - 09:58 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Titannium, on 15 June 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

iraqi: why are you denying the idea of 2 sepparate queues ?
OFC, it will cut off from current premades the "free" cbills income from 48-10 score, but it will definetly INCREASE the number of players, that will play CW.

I say, separate.

It would increase the amount of solos playing CW. There would be less players for anyone that wants to play with friends to play against. It would also turn Cw matches into public queue with 4 spawns. Same gameplay would reign as it does in public queue i.e ME ME ME ME MY MINE!
I like playing in cw even as a solo player because even as flawed as it is, it's more team based than the awful public queue. I want more than deathmatch, I want more than team solo match.
You obviously want more than that too hence why you ventured into Cw..but I have to ask, why are you so averse to teams and forming groups and/or socialising? Why does EVERYTHING have to be solo only? Would you honestly want CW to be just like public queue? The the thing you are looking for is gone.....

I'd suggest we have the 4 spawns in a regular game instead, you just can't have more than team deathmatch with a community that won't talk or group or form communities. I'd go as far as to scrap Cw completely just focus on more maps and more polish. But also offer one time only refunds. Because if this game goes anymore solo only I really would like my money back.
Playing on your own is not much fun in an online game I've found. I'll never understand those that choose a multiplayer game to play, then insist on playing alone, then being amazed that other people don't want to do that:)

[Triordinant]

pbiggz, on 15 June 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

The difference between 8 and 12 doesn't make a difference here. The difference between disorganized pug and premade is important. Having premades face disorganized pugs is not ideal, you are right. But you are wrong to say that it is the defining reason that so many players left. So many players left because we had a two years of stale gameplay, poor decisions from the top level, and a semi-abusive relationship with the devs and mods. That does more to murder a game than your premade boogieman ever will.

You're within your rights to keep thinking that, but I'm glad the vast majority of the players know better.