Playing on your own is not much fun in an online game I've found. I'll never understand those that choose a multiplayer game to play, then insist on playing alone, then being amazed that other people don't want to do that:)
People may like having human opponents to fight even if they don't like cooperating.
I also think many of the solo puggers in MWO are mechwarrior fans who wanted a single player game, but they will rather play MWO than nothing at all.
I also think many of the solo puggers in MWO are mechwarrior fans who wanted a single player game, but they will rather play MWO than nothing at all.
All the past Mechwarrior games were single-player games first and everything else second. The Mechwarrior fans had every right to expect the same from the latest Mechwarrior title so many felt let down when it turned out to be just a PvP shooter.
Look, I'm not here to argue about the right or wrong way to feel about CW, but MW:O was advertised as an online, multi-player sim/shooter. It's why I bought a Founder's Pack; I wanted to be able to play a game based on an IP I love, with a lot of people. However, this argument that CW needs to cater to solo's is getting a touch out of hand. Solo queue caters to solo's, group queue to groups and CW to players who want to play as a team. It's an excellent mix of different game types for different types of players. What I really don't get is the aversion to communicating with your group; how many of you vehemently bitching about having to "jump on TS or use VOIP" to have a chance to win are the same people who complain endlessly about how your solo queue teammates play selfishly and cost you wins? You DON'T have to join a unit, no one here is saying you have to or telling you to stay away from CW. No one here really wants to "farm PUGs" either; the vast majority of the people who enjoy CW do everything they can to encourage solo's to take the steps necessary to be more successful at CW. Look at RJ's post; he lays out where the faction TS lists are and shows a video example of a mixed group using TS to not only win a close fight but ENJOY themselves. Try it, you'll find that it's not a bunch of screaming, frothing neck beards yelling at newbies, it's a bunch of regular people who enjoy the same damn thing you like. And who knows, you use the communications tools, talk to some folks and you might find a unit you like rolling with or at least a large friends list so even if you roll solo you can always get into a larger group when you play CW. Just stop trying to make CW another version of solo queue; I like options and eliminating 1 of the 3 game modes takes away my options.
iraqi: why are you denying the idea of 2 sepparate queues ?
OFC, it will cut off from current premades the "free" cbills income from 48-10 score, but it will definetly INCREASE the number of players, that will play CW.
I say, separate.
Because then it's not "community warfare". It's solo team deathmatch, we already have too many of that.
Astrocanis, on 15 June 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:
Because of "supposedta" and "have fun any way you want to as long as it's my way." It's simple. He gets it. He just doesn't like it. Just like I get it - I HAVE to play with 11 of my best Internet buddies if I want to stand a chance. I don't like it.
He's winning. I'm not. But I -can- just take my marbles and go home. Which I'm doing. If I'm "supposedta" be in the public pug queue, so be it. If enough of us are put off by CW, they can enjoy their ghost town.
1- Don't put words into my mouth
2- The very first word in the title is "COMMUNITY" If you're gonna play like a solo rambo, and not coordinate with the team, you really shouldn't be playing CW. Pure and simple.
3- I drop solo more than in a premade in CW. In fact, it's a ratio of about 4-1 solo drops to group drops. The difference is that I get on TS with whichever faction I'm playing for, and coordinate.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: I have no problem with solo players. I have a major problem with solo MORONS. The rambos who don't want to work with a team, and just run around like idiots, shooting blindly, and don't follow a plan.
TL;DR:
If you want to solo rambo, the public queue already exists.
If you want to play like a team, even with complete strangers, and use comms, and coordinate. CW is for you.
Pure, and simple.
EDIT: Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Morons like this firestarter pilot:
Spoiler
Appogee, on 15 June 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:
I just lost a Counter Attack match in the last 15 seconds because one idiot in a Firestarter yolo'd into the enemy team at the end, evening the kill count, and undoing the team's entire work.
My 8 man team had spent 29 minutes marshalling ourselves and our 4 PUGs to whittle down the defenders against an organised enemy which was deliberately turtling and trying to time us out.
We got a two kill lead in the final minutes. So, rather than risk facing four fresh defenders and potentially losing the match on kill count, we destroyed Omega and staged a careful retreat back to our drop zone, protecting our slowest Mechs all the way. We lost one Mech on the way back to artillery spam, but we were still one Mech ahead.
The strategy was all clearly communicated to the PUGs on VOIP and in text chat, and in the main, they had played well with us during the match.
Once we got to our drop zone we set up a firing line, and were defending ourselves well. Then in the last 15 seconds, an idiot Firestarter just yolo'd straight into the enemy guns. He was killed in the final seconds of the match, and it was too late for us to get another kill.
"Oh well, I just wanted one more kill and hey it doesn't matter, we still got Omega!" he trumpeted,
Yes, it mattered, moron, because in Counter Attack mode you have to get more kills and destroy Omega.
29 minutes of a battle against a difficult opponent, lost because one guy didn't know the rules. What a waste.
PGI should better call it Unit Warfare, Community Warfare is misleading.
Most of my drops are done without my unit mates, so no, the name fits. You don't need to be in a unit to coordinate with others. Do you think when I dropped on the FRR front I didn't jump on their hub and coordinated with other PuGs there?
I play solo PuG 90% of my time, both in public queue, and CW. That doesn't mean I don't use my brain and coordinate with folks, in a team mode that NEEDS coordination.
Titannium, on 16 June 2015 - 12:20 AM, said:
still your view seems more "defending purge 48-10" then anything else . you are only covering it with "team".
Idea in theory is fine. Reality in MWO is nonsense 48-10, every match. No thx, CW in this form, its not a joy. its pain.
I don't care if units win or lose. What I care about is that CW shouldn't be watered down. We already have the solo queue for those that don't want teamwork.
Titannum, you've met me in public games. You know I drop solo. I do it a lot. I still use teamwork to win. Instead of just rush at the enemy with no plan, and no coordination.
Titannum, you've met me in public games. You know I drop solo. I do it a lot. I still use teamwork to win. Instead of just rush at the enemy with no plan, and no coordination.
Well, but then you sure know, pugs, can play teamplay regulary, Every here and there game, someone is leading over comm, and then its organaized.
Very small % of PUG games, is separated.
What im saying, that PUG vs PUG CW, will be a joy for whole 24 PUG players, while the match score will be around 35-48 +-.
Same with premades vs premades. (OFC their FREE cbills income will be shorter, but thats their problem, not mine).
i want to have fun, and joy in a game mode. Not to see 30 minutes, the disbalance. and loose everygame 10-48, because, its always pugs vs premades.
I still think, you somehow miss my point of balance.
Well, but then you sure know, pugs, can play teamplay regulary, Every here and there game, someone is leading over comm, and then its organaized.
Very small % of PUG games, is separated.
What im saying, that PUG vs PUG CW, will be a joy for whole 24 PUG players, while the match score will be around 35-48 +-.
Same with premades vs premades. (OFC their FREE cbills income will be shorter, but thats their problem, not mine).
i want to have fun, and joy in a game mode. Not to see 30 minutes, the disbalance. and loose everygame 10-48, because, its always pugs vs premades.
I still think, you somehow miss my point of balance.
I understand, and still repeat that CW is not a mode that should have a solo queue. Especially considering it's structure. Also, for the record, with the few thousand matches I've played, I can say less than 15% had ANY coordination. Most solo matches don't have anything beyond "Go to B3", and then everyone has to figure out what happens next.
The solo only queue will change NOTHING. Unit pilots will just jump in solo, together, and still do the same thing. Unlike in the public queue. If I queue up for a planet. I am guaranteed to be on that planet. So if I queue up with my unit mates, all of us as solo pilots. We'll still have a 12 man against pugs.
Solo only won't solve the problem. That's of course if unit pilots want to really farm. The problem is that a solo queue will marginalize units even more. CW is supposed to be about groups, and units. It's why units can claim planets.
No, you want to fix CW? Tutorials, and helping solo pilots get in touch with their faction's TS3 server so they can train with other pilots. CW should have a minimum entry requirement where every mech in the drop deck has to be at least fully elited. That way, pilots who have only been playing for one day, don't get into CW, get annihilated very fast, because on top of the complexity of MWO, they have to deal with CW, and proceed to quit the mode completely.
I can agree with eliting mechs on CW as requirement.
But still see, yo DONT want to play against other Premades only.
Why 2nd queue will harm your premades vs premades queue ? not at all. its alredy 15 mins waiting time if you meant this.
I can agree with eliting mechs on CW as requirement.
But still see, yo DONT want to play against other Premades only.
Why 2nd queue will harm your premades vs premades queue ? not at all. its alredy 15 mins waiting time if you meant this.
What I'm saying is that Solo only will not fix CW. Especially not for the solo pilots. Because the smaller units, and even some of the bored bigger units, can just drop into it, and still do what they do now.
There is no difference between me queuing up with 11 other pilots of my units, and dropping as a premade, or me, and all 11 selecting the same planet, and dropping in the queue that way. We're still using TS3, we're still operating as a unit. Even though technically, you're facing 12 solo players as far as the game is concerned. It's a form of massed synchronized dropping, and when a unit wants to take a planet, they will fight the defenders wherever they are. If no units are queuing up against them, then the unit pilots will drop as "solos", while still working as a unit.
I don't even need to get into any other reasons for why splitting the queues (even more than they are already) is going to be negative, and changes nothing.
People need to accept that this isn't CoD, and get on teamspeak, and coordinate with other people. It doesn't matter if it's a unit or not. Until people learn to accept that coordination is king, and they need to practice for CW. They will keep losing, regardless of the queue, and regardless of the enemy. We need some tutorials for CW, and people need to use the tools they've been given, and campaigned for.
Like I said earlier: Let them implement Solo only restrictions in CW, it will change nothing. Just be a waste of dev time, and resources.
Catalina Steiner, on 14 June 2015 - 02:55 AM, said:
I couldn't agree more. Every bad comments about LRM means only either player is very angry about being killed again and again by LRM's or player is not skilled by using LRM mechs. It tells more about the author of this comment as it tells about LRM's.
Every bad comment? There is certainly lots of room to make bad comments about LRMs. The truth about LRMs is that you can on rare occasion beat a superior player caught in a bad spot. LRM spam is a FOO Strategy. First Order Optimal Strategy. All games have them. Its something with decent power, a low skill floor, poor skill scaling, and acts as a holdmeover until a new player can learn other advanced stuff.
That I why I will never try to oversell LRMs to anyone for more than what they are. As an ex Tribes player with minimal previous exposure to Battletech, I will never include LRMs for the sake of LRMs themselves just because it is an entire weapon system from lore. Lets be honest with ourselves about all this.
Literally take anyone that can shoot straight, has basic map awareness, put them in direct fire, and they WILL perform better. I haven't touched lurms in a long time, so I guess I can't claim I am "skilled" with them. Don't take that wrong though, my current position regarding LRMs is simply to use them sparsely, to not flood drop decks with back to back Lurm Lurm Lurm Lurm. Its not because I am getting rekt by them, but rather because of the futility of it all coupled with boring counterplay. LRM intensive themes tend to largely get squashed by direct fire themes and I don't think anything can ever change that. Especially now with more ECM in the game than ever.
Every bad comment? There is certainly lots of room to make bad comments about LRMs. The truth about LRMs is that you can on rare occasion beat a superior player caught in a bad spot. LRM spam is a FOO Strategy. First Order Optimal Strategy. All games have them. Its something with decent power, a low skill floor, poor skill scaling, and acts as a holdmeover until a new player can learn other advanced stuff.
That I why I will never try to oversell LRMs to anyone for more than what they are. As an ex Tribes player with minimal previous exposure to Battletech, I will never include LRMs for the sake of LRMs themselves just because it is an entire weapon system from lore. Lets be honest with ourselves about all this.
Literally take anyone that can shoot straight, has basic map awareness, put them in direct fire, and they WILL perform better. I haven't touched lurms in a long time, so I guess I can't claim I am "skilled" with them. Don't take that wrong though, my current position regarding LRMs is simply to use them sparsely, to not flood drop decks with back to back Lurm Lurm Lurm Lurm. Its not because I am getting rekt by them, but rather because of the futility of it all coupled with boring counterplay. LRM intensive themes tend to largely get squashed by direct fire themes and I don't think anything can ever change that. Especially now with more ECM in the game than ever.
In all fairness, they will do better in direct fire, because it's easier to do better in direct fire. Also, there's a difference between "bad comment" and "comment criticizing a weapon system". Like calling the weapon system garbage, when it really isn't. As opposed to understanding how it works, and why it has it's place.
In all fairness, they will do better in direct fire, because it's easier to do better in direct fire. Also, there's a difference between "bad comment" and "comment criticizing a weapon system". Like calling the weapon system garbage, when it really isn't. As opposed to understanding how it works, and why it has it's place.
I want to try to share what I have learned about CW and the game with players new to CW before they get chewed up. I have seen many players new to CW stumble and quit. Often, they go through a process of extreme faulty corrective action.
It sort of flows like this
Bring stock+ nostalgia mechs, stuff that wont hold water in CW (bracket mix builds, special snowflake mechs, or back to back brawlers, do sub 500 damage or worse, lose lots)
Come back with 4 horribly improvised LRM boats, get rekt, hate the game
Give up, perhaps either being so close to figuring out how to play or never trying to get help by joining a unit or reading guides (the "community" made for the benefit of the "community".)
They way to approach CW is not easily obvious to everyone, many players bring a lot of lore baggage making them rigid and perhaps unable to climb the learning curve.
I naturally feel obligated to squash any misguided ideas about LRMs because CW isn't exactly doing so hot right now. We don't have time to screw around with already frustrated players everywhere.
This weekend I was playing CW when we experienced multiple 12 mans, including the all light/all assault combos, among others.
After being in several rounds of this, I noticed comments from some of the guys who were playing CW for their first times saying things like "I think I'll just opt out of this CW thing" and "Is this the way it always goes?"
This just isn't working as intended right now. It doesn't track with the Battletech universe that you can run around in a bunch of lights and roflstomp the entire enemy force. On no less than 4 of my 10 matches today, we had the light rush essentially win, then pull back so that they could farm us for the next 20 minutes. Also ran into a 12 man that did a complete Stalker set, etc etc.
I don't have a problem with people playing in groups. I recognise that it's a good part of the game, but let's be clear. 12 man groups clearing house, and we all know they do, isn't conducive to people enjoying themselves. Not everyone has patience to play a mode where the rounds are up to half an hour, the queues are longer, and occasionally you'll load a match and know right off the bat you're going to get wiped out.
PGI needs to implement some sort of changes. Something to avoid the light rush in the opening waves, and perhaps limiting groups to less than 12 in CW, or placing larger groups into a different queue. When a 12 man goes up against a team of all pubs, it's a slaughter.
Slaughtering noobs may be enjoyable to some, personally it doesn't hold much interest for me, but I would hope we'd all be rational enough to agree that it isn't real healthy long term for CW. Every time you get someone who decides CW isn't for them, you're reducing the player base.
Maybe online gaming isnt for you? You should go pick up a game of Candy Land or Life. You will probably run into some tryhard 6 year olds who will ruin your game time to though.
Guess you will just have to suck it up, buttercup.
Maybe online gaming isnt for you? You should go pick up a game of Candy Land or Life. You will probably run into some tryhard 6 year olds who will ruin your game time to though.
Guess you will just have to suck it up, buttercup.
Community warfare needs more community and less islanders. There is a significant anti tryhard and anti mimic attitude floating around. Not saying anyone cant ever cut a new meta. However, when you are the underdog, step 1 in improvement 101 is to emulate success rather than get stubborn with what fails. Here that could mean anything from a struggling unit bringing tier1 decks to a returning player trying CW for the first time looking for good unit that is willing to help new players.
What I'm saying is that Solo only will not fix CW. Especially not for the solo pilots. Because the smaller units, and even some of the bored bigger units, can just drop into it, and still do what they do now.
This is very true. The reason why the public solo-only queue is generally successful in stopping premade teams from sync-dropping into it is because team members often end up on opposing sides in a match even if they manage to sync-drop into the same match. In CW, the opposing teams in a match are grouped by Faction so premade team members ending up on opposing teams is impossible.
If you're a soloist and your goal is to never go up against comp premade teams, then CW will never work for you.
yep, you are talking about current status of CW, which is total crap. It has to be rebuild from scrap. Or do you think <15% of all players is success ?
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kamiko kross, on 15 June 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:
