218 replies to this topic

[DevlinCognito]

Unseen is so iconic, & always preferable. A few of the Project Phoenix 'Mechs have grown on me & I wouldnt complain if they were added because it means we get to ride them like the T-Bolt, Rifleman, Wolverine, Valkyrie, Archer & the Ost mechs, but some like the Maddie, Hammer, Locust, Crusader & Phoenix Hawk are just plain .. wrong.

[aRottenKomquat]

I voted for Reseen because I understand how much of a copyright mess the Unseen stuff is. But there's something about the Unseen Marauder that I wish they could keep its appearance (maybe because I'm reading Decision at Thunder Rift right now and the Unseen Marauder is on the cover art).

[Khushrenada]

definetively unseen...

i acknowledge the work of redesigning the mechs to bring them back, but some of the redesigns are just plain ugly. especially the warhammer, that reseen is just a no go

maybe its because i "grew up" with the unseen (almost literally ), so i`m having a hard time to accept the new designs. some of them are not that bad, like the longbow or the battlemaster, but i guess thats because they are pretty close to their original designs.

some of them are hillarious... in a bad way... for example, the locust or the shadow hawk. the later looks like someone just saw an episode of saber rider before doing the redesign

so far i think the redesigns from alex are looking pretty well, so if they put some unseen mechs into the game (what i sincerely hope), i think they should take the unseen designs and redo them instead of using the reseens. but since they redesigned all mechs they put into the game, i think i won`t have to worry about that, only what source they use.


edit/typo

Edited by Khushrenada, 06 July 2012 - 06:15 AM.

[Schtirlitz]

New designes are more practical, more "modern".
New ones, definitely.

[Bobfrombobtown]

Khushrenada, on 06 July 2012 - 06:14 AM, said:

definetively unseen...

i acknowledge the work of redesigning the mechs to bring them back, but some of the redesigns are just plain ugly. especially the warhammer, that reseen is just a no go

maybe its because i "grew up" with the unseen (almost literally ), so i`m having a hard time to accept the new designs. some of them are not that bad, like the longbow or the battlemaster, but i guess thats because they are pretty close to their original designs.

some of them are hillarious... in a bad way... for example, the locust or the shadow hawk. the later looks like someone just saw an episode of saber rider before doing the redesign

so far i think the redesigns from alex are looking pretty well, so if they put some unseen mechs into the game (what i sincerely hope), i think they should take the unseen designs and redo them instead of using the reseens. but since they redesigned all mechs they put into the game, i think i won`t have to worry about that, only what source they use.


edit/typo

I agree. some of the "reseen" designs are just horrid. I do like the version of the marauder one community member started. the thread is here

[Steinar Bergstol]

One of my problems with many of the reseen designs is that, in my opinion, they don't even try to preserve the _feel_ of the original. For some reason many of the new versions of what was originally beefy, solid looking behemoths (Warhammer, Battlemaster, Thunderbolt, Archer) look skinny and fragile by comparison to the original, while others again (the Rifleman being the primary example of these) look like it's doubled in weight and put on armor equivalent to an Atlas where the original was always kinda lightly armored and looked it.

Some of the reseen work just fine. The Stinger and Wasp are fine examples of mechs which, even if they look different, kept the right feel in my opinion, and the best example of these is the Longbow which looks like an improvement on the original. Then there are some that leave me with a feeling of "meh" whenever I see them (Griffin, Wolverine, Phoenix Hawk) and finally the ones that make me go "hell no!" (Marauder, Shadow Hawk, Valkyrie, Locust).

Now, the Unseen in their original unseen form? Barring a miracle I think we all realize we're not going to see that. However, Alex has proven that he can make even some of the boxiest, least attractive mechs look great (Centurion, anyone?) while preserving the feel of the machine. So I say he takes his queue from the original unseen and then redesign them sufficiently to avoid legal entanglements. I have every confidence that he would be able to do this while still preserving the feel and spirit of the original mech.

Edited by Steinar Bergstol, 06 July 2012 - 07:30 AM.

[Vexgrave Lars]

A summary of like and dislike is not really possible as each piece of art succeeds or fails on its own merits, and by the opinion and inspired feeling of the viewer.

Arguing art is like arguing taste in food, women, or music, no two will ever totally agree.

Some of the reseen stuff is good, some of it is an atrocity. Would I suffer a few atrocities to get Alex to remake the Marauder, damned straight I would.

[Bobfrombobtown]

Steinar Bergstol, on 06 July 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

However, Alex has proven that he can make even some of the boxiest, least attractive mechs look great (Centurion, anyone?) while preserving the feel of the machine.

Speaking of, I really like his take on the Centurion. In my humble opinion the Centurion he designed gives it an even better feel than any of the original artwork designed for it.

[Karyudo ds]

Keep anime out of my Battletech thanks.

Seems really disrespectful to the original artists that their work got ripped off and thrown into Battletech. Granted not all the FanPro designs were all that great either. The Marauder has a huge blind spot and the Warhammer just...eck. Yet the IIC versions of both were alright.

Arguing one way or the other here is pointless though. It wont look exactly like whatever you demand anyway since MWO has it's own style.

[Homadais]

I just want my warhammer.

[SilentSooYun]

I rather prefer the Reseen Rifleman and Longbow, and I can live with the Reseen Phoenix Hawk.

The Reseen Rifleman's mismatched weapon barrels really sold it for me; I always balked at how dissimilar weapons could look identical. Plus it's one of the few Ressen that looks bulky and substantial.

Same with the Reseen Longbow; tough, bulky, and substantial. Plus I love the idea of the "timelapse daisy" weapon covers... not only does my imagination make the opening of the covers look cool, but a clever pilot could use them as very clumsy hands.

Most of the other Reseen look wasted and anorexic, with odd bulges stuck here and there making them shapeless, horrible, and just a little bit sad... NOT the cool Mechs we know and love. I can accept the Phoenix Hawk in this Reseen format, as it's supposed to be skinny (and I love the flat "jet pack" intakes), but the others need more bulk.

As for the Marauder... I rather like the Reseen Mech design, but I just cannot accept it as a Marauder. If they had named it something else, put it somewhere else, I don't think anyone would have had a problem with it. It's like that American Godzilla movie: if they had called it a remake of The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms, it would probably have gotten excellent reviews from all but the most ardent Harryhausen fans. But because that thing was supposed to be Godzilla, expectations weren't met and the movie bombed. Such is the fate of the Reseen Marauder.

[Theodore Kurita]

I would ever and ever and ever vote for the unseen.
Because, i want back the greateast Battlemech ever:
The Marauder!

[Butane9000]

A lot of those reseen pictures are indeed too "round." However the core concepts are cool. There's a revamped marauder reminiscent of the current MWO concept art that looks flipping amazing though.

[Aethon]

I voted unseen, purely because of the Warhammer, Marauder, and Rifleman.

The others, IMHO, look better reseen, but their unseen versions could be made to look awesome, courtesy of Alex Iglesias.

I doubt this will have any impact on anything, of course, since this is more of a legal matter than a personal preference.

[Monsoon]

Melcyna, on 06 July 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

If you look at the unseen design though, it was not just 'based upon' with personal touches...

it was IDENTICAL copy, of the material...
for example from my post above:

Rifleman (source: Macross, "ADR-04-MK-X Destroid Defender")





Warhammer (source: Macross, "MBR-04-MKVI Destroid Tomahawk")


Those are not just similar design, they are IDENTICAL... almost direct trace of the original design.

Well there is the Ostroc, Ostsol or Ostscout:


Neither of which look anything like this:


And yet the Ost... is somehow an Unseen.

At best I'd say there was some inspiration from this beauty, which made those beasts.

Same with the Behemoth / M.A.C. II Monster.

Edited by Monsoon, 06 July 2012 - 02:59 PM.

[Undead Bane]

The problem with HG is that if it finds even a minor resemblance with their owned design (look at Ost... series, really, they have only torso left) - they will try their best to ban/get money from it.

well, anyway, reseen version as basis for MWO-style redesign win for now =)

[Melcyna]

Monsoon, on 06 July 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Well there is the Ostroc, Ostsol or Ostscout:


Neither of which look anything like this:


And yet the Ost... is somehow an Unseen.

At best I'd say there was some inspiration from this beauty, which made those beasts.

Same with the Behemoth / M.A.C. II Monster.

sure, but the rest?

wholesale copy... which is the problem..

Hell, the Galleon tank? Direct duplicate including the name... they had to be nutz back then when they decided on this.

Incidentally did you see Ostroc MK2??

Edited by Melcyna, 06 July 2012 - 11:16 PM.

[Johndar]

Mechs with hands using a big gun always seemed impractical; why not just make the arm a gun? Since my first exposure to BattleTech was with MechWarrior2 I'm partial to the unseen designs. I think of battlemechs as walking tanks. The designs (unseen and reseen) with arms and hands seem better suited for heavy maintenance duty more like giant power armor.

Edited by Johndar, 06 July 2012 - 11:41 PM.

[Damion Sparhawk]

personally, while I understand the desire for the unchanged mech, I would much rather see the 'unseen' redesigned to not only look better (though some of them could still use some work) but to finally end the BS with HG once and for all.

[Hayden]

Johndar, on 06 July 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

Mechs with hands using a big gun always seemed impractical; why not just make the arm a gun? Since my first exposure to BattleTech was with MechWarrior2 I'm partial to the unseen designs. I think of battlemechs as walking tanks. The designs (unseen and reseen) with arms and hands seem better suited for heavy maintenance duty more like giant power armor.

Something I think they missed the boat on was making interchangeable hand-held weapons. This was recently introduced within the past year or two (3085 or 3075 TRO), but it would have made a lot more sense back when so many 'mechs were depicted as holding guns.

ED: I take it back, it was the Experimental TRO.

Edited by Hayden, 09 July 2012 - 10:51 PM.