105 replies to this topic

[Knyx]

I agree partially with the OP, but I think ONE of two solutions are needed

Either

1. Separate ques. Group and Solo. Group gives higher rewards. Any unit that ques with more then 4 is locked out from solo que. Solo players can que either mode. (that way say a unit ques with 10 in group mode it will still be filled with either solo or a 2 man unit)


or

2. Add another mode to regular que (non CW) that isn't YOLO. I think one of the biggest draws for players, especially those none RP lore monkeys, to CW is the fact you have essentially 4 lives.
It would of course if regular que matches transitioned from map to map fluidly while scrambling each team before each match and backfilling before the next match started. Think of a battlefield game when you join a server, and complete a match it loads the next map.

[Shredhead]

It is not the groups fault that you're unable or unwilling to visit one of the myriad community sponsored VOIP servers, be it the public ones like Comstar or NGNG, or the faction specific servers.
You don't even need to join a unit, of which there are myriads out there, active during all time zones, catering towards casual fun seeking players as well as to hardcore competitive players.

It is your own fault!

Have you ever heard of raids in WoW being done by scrubs that don't even talk to each other?
Can you play CW in WoT without being in a unit?

I would support a change to matchmaking algorithms in CW to preferably pit groups against groups instead of full Pug teams, but that's it.

Use ingame VOIP to coordinate, use faction TS servers, use good mechs and builds and stop already with the whining!

[Zerstorer Stallin]

CW is not "hard core" mode. It might be meta cheese mode.. but not "hard core" mode. More over its suppose to be a draw to the game. By catering to the 12 teams its doing the opposite its pushing players away. More over the entire system as it is now is just BAD. Why did they waste the time, money and resources of having a separate system for CW? Why wouldn't you just build off the maps you had already and make everyone part of CW? Instead you wasted god knows how much money and time that could have been used in make maps for EVERYONE, included everyone in what was promised YEARS ago and into something interesting and fun. Way to drop the ball, but its PGI we are kinda use to that.

Edited by Zerstorer Stallin, 03 April 2015 - 06:34 AM.

[Bulletsponge0]

InspectorG, on 02 April 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

Pugs lose in CW cuz they try to play like solo. You cant really camp in CW, you NEED to push especially on attack.

CW was meant for teams, hence greater need for coordination.

There are casual teams out there.

Expecting CW to be like solo is like expecting a screwdriver to work like a brake press.

soooooo much this..

its funny/sad/infuriating watching pugs in CW play timid and scared... waiting for the fight to come to them as they camp near omega (you know..the thing you are suppose to DEFEND..."hey people, lets fight the enemy at a place where they can shoot the objective at will!!" ugh)

I always try to encourage them to be aggressive...then, after we get stomped and the others who proclaim "terrible team" show up on the after match score screen as having done 200 damage total for 4 mechs, I have to shake my head....then do it all over again


I'm a masochist...

[Amsro]

Karpi, on 02 April 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

Taking away the 3 LL ghost heat barrier for IS mechs has made a huge affect.
But putting 12 man up against pugs is just so desuading. Since I've started playing, I've entered at least 25 matches, of which, as a pug, have only had 3 victories. All else was just being stomped by 12 mans. They should be on a league of their own, period. Its absurd, no fun what so ever

Go here , find other people playing CW and form a faction group.

It is the only way to play CW, dropping solo is just asking to lose.

[PappySmurf]

Karpi (Taking away the 3 LL ghost heat barrier for IS mechs has made a huge affect.
But putting 12 man up against pugs is just so desuading. Since I've started playing, I've entered at least 25 matches, of which, as a pug, have only had 3 victories. All else was just being stomped by 12 mans. They should be on a league of their own, period. Its absurd, no fun what so ever )

The problem is unbalance Karpi the12 mans have fully elite and modeled mechs VS you and most pugs/casuals with basic skilled mechs no modules. Then you have 12 man communication and coordination in games and its a slaughter.Even if you join a team it take a bit of practice to unite to win against other 12man groups.

Thats why most CW or MWO is the way it is for game play overall. Back in PC MechWarrior2-4 games it was all about skill and team communication and coordination the mechs were all the same for every player with only your mechlab load out and skill. there were no modules or elite vs basic levels in mechs just skill and load outs.

MWO is more about mech superiority than it is about player skill IF! you were playing against players close to your skill level with a similar mech/skill and loudout like two trial timberwolfs the game or CW mode would be more fun for you and many others in MWO.

The true problem is MWO'S lack of game mode types like

Trial vs trial
IS vs clan = equally balanced in mech/skill/loadouts
Trial vs trial/IS vs clan

That is my suggestion play the game for what you can get out of it fun wise join a team that you feel compatible with?

Edited by PappySmurf, 03 April 2015 - 06:52 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Shredhead, on 03 April 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

It is not the groups fault that you're unable or unwilling to visit one of the myriad community sponsored VOIP servers, be it the public ones like Comstar or NGNG, or the faction specific servers.
You don't even need to join a unit, of which there are myriads out there, active during all time zones, catering towards casual fun seeking players as well as to hardcore competitive players.

It is your own fault!

Have you ever heard of raids in WoW being done by scrubs that don't even talk to each other?
Can you play CW in WoT without being in a unit?

I would support a change to matchmaking algorithms in CW to preferably pit groups against groups instead of full Pug teams, but that's it.

Use ingame VOIP to coordinate, use faction TS servers, use good mechs and builds and stop already with the whining!

Quoted for truth.
------------------------------

The thing that annoys me the most about threads like this, complaining about group play etc is the sheer, disgusting logic dodging gall of them. There are just INSANE points of view being pushed around on the CW forum, posts that just make no logical sense. The vast majority of these posts come from the solo players, trying to team solomatch.

Now before you militant soloists start sharpening the tynes on your pitchforks, I actually agree partly with you-not on your groups are unfair rhetoric, because that is just plain silly.
But rather, PGI should tailor the game to your needs, whilst I think that would make for a very shallow crap game it would be in the best interests for PGI's bankroll...why?
It's simple really. MMO players have changed over the years, they flock to play the latest MMO game with the sole intention of playing as solo as possible. First time I noticed it was in WoW. Everyone desperately running around solo. People in open chat crying they couldn't solo a particular quest or mob....when all they had to do was spend the same amount of time asking for a couple of peeps to help them do it...sounds silly doesn't it? (hint: it IS)
Now here in MWO there is a smallish group that can't really use things like TS due to unusual family commitments etc ok that's fair enough, but the rest?
I think MWO is aimed at the wrong market to be honest, as people who join an mmo to play an actual mmo are very rare it seems most want MMBSPOG (massively multiplayer but solo player online game) so why not cater to them?


But in all seriousness, let's put the elephant in the room to rest. There is a singular, inescapable truth here in MWO. Until such time as MWO is made into an MMBSPOG, solo player's predicament is entirely 100% on THEM. You know it's group oriented and there are far and away so very many options on how to get involved, yet you refuse to. The FACT is in that case, it's on YOU and no one else
So until it's changed to suit team solomatch, the fault lies with you. Either do something about that or stop the whining.

[PappySmurf]

ShredHead (It is not the groups fault that you're unable or unwilling to visit one of the myriad community sponsored VOIP servers, be it the public ones like Comstar or NGNG, or the faction specific servers.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This statement above is true OP but it is a fault PGI/DEVS have made in MechWarrior that was never there before and that problem is (SOCIAL ISOLATION) of players in a MechWarrior IP. Before MWO this IP had huge Social chat lobby's=(MSN GAMMING ZONE) thousands of web sites PC MW2-MW4 with forums and chat lobby's hundreds of communications channels on roger wilco , TeamSpeak , ETC to talk on plus many ways solo players could get involved with a team and have fun in leagues Solaris or planetary type.

You ask why does this pertain to your topic? Because MWO is a very unsocial game and without a lot of forum work to uncover TS3 channels or team recruitment topics YOU JUST CANT CHAT AND FIND INFORMATION FROM PLAYERS LIKE YOU COULD IN PAST PC MECHWARRIOR GAMES.

Which I personally feel PGI has avoided for some reason? They should have put a Social/chat/lobby/launcher system in the front of UI 2.0 so players could come online go to the lobby chat with friends teammates family members and play MWO and private leagues or CW and solo MWO games. And this lobby system it could have been used by teams for recruitment of players just like it was 10 years ago in past MechWarrior IP games.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 03 April 2015 - 06:33 AM, said:

CW is not "hard core" mode. It might be meta cheese mode.. but not "hard core" mode. More over its suppose to be a draw to the game. By catering to the 12 teams its doing the opposite its pushing players away. More over the entire system as it is now is just BAD. Why did they waste the time, money and resources of having a separate system for CW? Why wouldn't you just build off the maps you had already and make everyone part of CW? Instead you wasted god knows how much money and time that could have been used in make maps for EVERYONE, included everyone in what was promised YEARS ago and into something interesting and fun. Way to drop the ball, but its PGI we are kinda use to that.

Yeah, you nailed it. If its supposed to draw players in, that means casuals and 12 mans alike right? lol....
Seems like PGI is trying to make MWO a MLG, where if you dont comp 12 man it up, you pretty much will have no fun or get anywhere in this game.

[Stoned Prophet]

oldradagast, on 03 April 2015 - 02:59 AM, said:

Yep, and once you find a group, you can have "fun" rolling PUG's... at least people keep telling me that's fun.

And, no, any game mode that hands out free wins to teams for seal-clubbing is not "hard core mode." It's a joke.

Imagine if the NFL worked this way... This Sunday, watch as an NFL team beats up a couple dozen guys picked from the stands, all of whom may have played football back in high school! It's exciting! Right... and, no, the proper response to such insanity would be to watch a different sport, not complain that the pile of random players haven't yet joined an NFL team.

Basic truth is that is that as long as CW encourages seal-clubbing, it is going to suck. At best, you join a team and get random games with no real opponents where you get to club seals - boring! At worst, you are part of a small unit or go solo and get clubbed randomly... boring, too.

You know, Its not organized groups fault you que up solo and dont work together to get yourselves "seal clubbed". Right? I mean, WE dont choose you to be there, we keep telling you you shouldnt be there, but its our fault you go there? Thats extra special kind of special.

[Mystere]

Karpi, on 02 April 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

Taking away the 3 LL ghost heat barrier for IS mechs has made a huge affect.
But putting 12 man up against pugs is just so desuading. Since I've started playing, I've entered at least 25 matches, of which, as a pug, have only had 3 victories. All else was just being stomped by 12 mans. They should be on a league of their own, period. Its absurd, no fun what so ever

As someone who only plays solo, I can give you this advice: Communication, coordination, and better than average gunnery skills are the first things you need to PUG CW. A little bit of gumption helps as well.

Don't listen to the salty naysayers who think solos cannot enjoy CW.

Edited by Mystere, 03 April 2015 - 03:40 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"You do realize that Community Warfare was designed to be hard core mode"

I'm skeptical of that. Does anyone have a quote from Russ or PGI saying such?

And I'm getting a little tired of the "hard core" line. Its a video game. Played for entertainment. The most "hard core" thing that could happen is getting carpal tunnel syndrome in the wrist.

I think PGI needs to make a decision - do they want more new players (and therefore more $$) in CW? Or do they want to cater to the self-esteem deficit of a bunch of losers still living in their mommy's basement?

[Jabilo]

There are a lot of reasons why people do not play in groups.

Some people have jobs and families and get maybe an hour here and there to log on for a few games. They do not have the time or energy to devote to joining a unit.

At the moment these people are effectively excluded from a huge part of the game due to the matchmaker putting them up against skilled 12 mans.

However, these guys support the game financially, in some cases more than group players. A lot of founders made so many C Bills in the early days they have little incentive to drop real money for premum time or mechs.

So you have people who support the game with their contribution of head count and money - paying for the CW servers you play on - and yet are described and derided as "scrubs" (a direct quote from this thread).

Yes there are some whiners and they give pugs a bad name, but there are also a lot of really good guys who would like to take part in CW and feel they can't.

I feel fighting should be focused on a few chosen plantes at a time, so player numbers are high enough to allow the matchmaker to at least try to separate PUGS from 12 mans.

Edited by Jabilo, 03 April 2015 - 03:44 PM.

[Mystere]

Fenrisulvyn, on 03 April 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

"You do realize that Community Warfare was designed to be hard core mode"

I'm skeptical of that. Does anyone have a quote from Russ or PGI saying such?

And I'm getting a little tired of the "hard core" line. Its a video game. Played for entertainment. The most "hard core" thing that could happen is getting carpal tunnel syndrome in the wrist.

I think PGI needs to make a decision - do they want more new players (and therefore more $$) in CW? Or do they want to cater to the self-esteem deficit of a bunch of losers still living in their mommy's basement?

Russ' original quote more or less goes like this: "Community warfare is primarily intended for organized groups."

The key word being "primarily". So it's really not exclusive.

[Bobzilla]

I guess the best solution is to make it group only?

Then it will shrivel and die and we'll hear no more from either side.


Or give pugs a elo advantage vs 12s.

[Mystere]

Bobzilla, on 03 April 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

I guess the best solution is to make it group only?

And so solo players like myself will no longer be able to play?

No. Way. In. Hell!

[Triordinant]

Karpi, on 02 April 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

Taking away the 3 LL ghost heat barrier for IS mechs has made a huge affect.
But putting 12 man up against pugs is just so desuading. Since I've started playing, I've entered at least 25 matches, of which, as a pug, have only had 3 victories. All else was just being stomped by 12 mans. They should be on a league of their own, period. Its absurd, no fun what so ever

Here is an overview of Community Warfare, why it is the way it is, and what can and can't be done about it.

[Karpi]

Jabilo, on 03 April 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

There are a lot of reasons why people do not play in groups.

Some people have jobs and families and get maybe an hour here and there to log on for a few games. They do not have the time or energy to devote to joining a unit.

At the moment these people are effectively excluded from a huge part of the game due to the matchmaker putting them up against skilled 12 mans.

However, these guys support the game financially, in some cases more than group players. A lot of founders made so many C Bills in the early days they have little incentive to drop real money for premum time or mechs.

So you have people who support the game with their contribution of head count and money - paying for the CW servers you play on - and yet are described and derided as "scrubs" (a direct quote from this thread).

Yes there are some whiners and they give pugs a bad name, but there are also a lot of really good guys who would like to take part in CW and feel they can't.

I feel fighting should be focused on a few chosen plantes at a time, so player numbers are high enough to allow the matchmaker to at least try to separate PUGS from 12 mans.

This! This is exactly why when ever I want to play CW with my team, it just doesnt work out, since we all have external comitments. I've been playing this game for 2 + years, and I really enjoy it. I don't whine, but I'm just saying. If I want a bigger and better community, something must be done to incentivate players to actually play CW. I asked my unit (almost 60 players) how many play CW, it was less than 8, thats like, just about 10%? Seriously? Is this a reflection of the player base? So all this work thats going in to CW, money, development, only to cater to 10% of the playerS?

[Stoned Prophet]

[color=#959595]You know, Its not organized groups fault you que up solo and dont work together to get yourselves "seal clubbed". Right? I mean, WE dont choose you to be there, we keep telling you you shouldnt be there, but its our fault you go there? Thats extra special kind of special. [/color]

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Its not organized groups fault you que up solo and dont work together to get yourselves "seal clubbed". Right? I mean, WE dont choose you to be there - "

Actually it IS your fault newbies are being "seal clubbed". There is a significant percentage of you that get off on thrashing newbies and pugs and then talking smack to them about it in game chat - its pathetic. And Its a wonder any of the pugs bother to log onto CW after the way they are treated. Is your self-esteem really that low?

"Hey, lets go beat up on the crippled kids and then taunt them about how buff we are!"

Keep it up and you'll be occupying barren terrain. Playing with yourselves.