106 replies to this topic

[Xaiier]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 04 April 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

That's kinda sorta the point of a video game. Sorry for having fun the wrong way apparently.

Clam laser vomit lies in bad ballistics. As they stand, clan lasers are significantly better than clan ballistics which are just lasers that weigh more, are larger, require ammo, and are less intuitive on getting shots on target.

Uhh...wait.

You can't claim you play for fun, and then simultaneously complain that the only viable builds are the ones which are numerically the best and then only use those. You can't be the guy who calls for nerfs/buffs while also being the guy abusing those imbalances to perform better. Can you only have fun if you are winning every time, using the best of the best? What kind of pathetic existence is that...

[the hedgehog]

My opinion on this is that maybe they are not "overpowered" so much as other mechs are not strong enough to compete on a closer level to what we need.

Instead of nerf nerf nerf the strong maybe we should look at what makes the strong, strong and apply this to the weak to help create a better gameplay enviornment that is less depentent on what few good things we have.

I strongly believe issues likes these are a symtom of lower level game development that happened those few years ago and are now coming back into the forefront as we add more and more onto the game and on top of unhealthy game designs that occured while creating the game.

I hope only that MWO continues to grow and become the mechwarrior game we will love.

[Pjwned]

I don't see why any Stalkers need any energy weapon heat quirks actually, or at least not anything beyond 7.5% less heat for all energy weapons and even that is pushing it.

[Quxudica]

Xaiier, on 04 April 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

Uhh...wait.

You can't claim you play for fun, and then simultaneously complain that the only viable builds are the ones which are numerically the best and then only use those. You can't be the guy who calls for nerfs/buffs while also being the guy abusing those imbalances to perform better. Can you only have fun if you are winning every time, using the best of the best? What kind of pathetic existence is that...

Your mentality is the issue here, not his playstyle. Min/Maxers are favorite punching bags for typical players in any competitive game, I'm not sure why, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with how they play. Some people derive fun and enjoyment from pushing their performance to the limit, from getting that extra 1% or less out of their build or playstyle. They like learning all they can about a games nuts a bolts and using that knowledge to take full advantage of mechanics. This is no more or less valid than someone who throws random pieces of equipment in a mech they think looks cool and having at it (though the difference is that second type of player is actually hurting their team by doing so).

Yes you can "play for fun" and still point out such issues in the current state of the game. Games are nothing but complex math problems with fancy GUI's, as such it always boils down to numbers in the end. No mech or weapon in the game does zero damage, so no mech or weapon in the game is "unusable" - but whether you like it or not the numbers will outline that some weapons and some mechs are simply not "viable" in the more competitive areas of the game where those percentages matter.

He pointed out that the clan laser meta is partially or directly influenced by the fact that clan ballistics are statistically inferior. For people that care about being competitive (and again there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to play a competitive game competitively), this means they are going to use the builds that actually perform better.

You can run, for example, an LRM mech with LRM20 launchers if you want, and good for you if you love using them - but that doesn't change the fact that LRM 20's are statistically inferior to LRM 5's/10's. Nor does your enjoyment of the LRM20 negate criticism from Min/Maxers who outline why it is inferior to the LRM 5's/10's and would like to see it improved.

Edited by Quxudica, 04 April 2015 - 04:01 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Xaiier, on 04 April 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

Uhh...wait.

You can't claim you play for fun, and then simultaneously complain that the only viable builds are the ones which are numerically the best and then only use those. You can't be the guy who calls for nerfs/buffs while also being the guy abusing those imbalances to perform better. Can you only have fun if you are winning every time, using the best of the best? What kind of pathetic existence is that...

Uh... yeah... you can... you very easily can. I can acknowledge imbalances.

I shoot competitively. I don't take my P.38 made in 1943 into a competition if I'm there to win. I take my SIG. I don't take my SMLE or Winchester 1886 if I want to win, I take my R700. I don't take my BC Miroku 12 if I'm there to win, I take R870 Magnum Express. Have I taken those "bad" guns into a competition? Yes. Did I win? No, I didn't even place with them. Did I have fun? Yep.

Same logic applies here. I'm naturally uber-competitive, so I like to win. However, I'm also old enough/wise enough to understand that winning isn't everything. Sometimes it's fun to just take an inferior piece of equipment and see how well you can do with it. Or to just throw things at a wall and see what sticks.

I have 117 at the moment. I can list all the "meta" ones that consistently get brought up:
-TBR-Prime
-TBR-C
-SCR-Prime
-HBR-Prime
-DWF-Prime
-FS9-A
-WVR-6K
-TDR-5SS

That's eight mechs of 117 that are "meta" and that leaves the other 109 mechs to be not "meta." I have over 2mil XP combined on my AWS-8Q and AWS-9M. I STILL run the quad SL, dual SRM4 JR7-D. I have a CPLT-A1 with just LRMs. Both the AWS-9M and AWS-8Q are nearly stock. My TDR-5S doesn't even TRY to use quirks. Is it still loads of fun? Yeah. Do I solo pub with it? Yeah. Do I take it into my RHOD matches? Oh hell no....

Sorry. But you made no sense.

EDIT:

Actually, no I'm not sorry. You should learn to deal with people that don't play the way you vision that we should.

Edited by Lord Scarlett Johan, 04 April 2015 - 04:09 PM.

[Lord0fHats]

Quote

Stormcrow/Timber/Hellbringer?

Are there any other Clan mechs worth using? The answer is no, and it's not because the above three are so good we have to take them, but that all the rest are so bad (or gimped in CW) that there is no reason to bother.The only other viable mechs are;

Kit Fox - Tonnage filler so we can get a second Timber into a deck
Ice Ferret - Best 'light' mech the Clans can get and not that bad just not exactly stellar.
Nova - A very niche mech that does what its name suggests. Shoot hot and die fast, but it can often take down mechs much heavier than it is before it gets blow away. Unfortunately, I feel it's just a bit too slow to reliably fulfill its role.

Gas Guzzler, on 04 April 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

The Timber can do the same alpha over a slightly longer duration and reach what 45%?

Using only 4 CERLL (depending on sinks) a Timber would end up around 60ish %.

Johnny Z, on 04 April 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

tiny hit boxes, then I would say nerf it.

This is just comical. The Stalker has the best hitboxes in the game bar none. It can take so many shots of direct fire and its center will almost always be the last thing to go. No other mech in the game has Hitboxes as good as the Stalker. Those hitboxes are largest reason the Stalker has been ever present in the game.

Quote

If the STK 4N had an Omni XL and was 10 tons lighter with jump jets, it would be close to a Cheese Wolf

In public que, the stalker has always drifted from so-so to some level of not too bad. In CW however it's a problem, but I don't think because of Clan mech balance. Rather its the map design (I do keep harping this yes). The CW maps really favor a mech like the stalker, which can pump out those alphas/half alphas at range and can easily shift most incoming damage to its sides since it doesn't need much face time to do its damage and can just shuffle back into cover quickly.

Within CW's Meta, the Stalker is better than the Timber.

I'm not sure what to do about it at the moment. It's an Assault Mech, so in my mind, it should outgun a 75 ton Heavy straight up. Unfortunately stacking Stalkers and Tbolts + a Firestarter is a damned effective drop deck and the Clan mech line up is very gimped without good lights or assaults of its own that it can fit into CW.

[washout]

Lord0fHats, on 04 April 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

Are there any other Clan mechs worth using? The answer is no, and it's not because the above three are so good we have to take them, but that all the rest are so bad (or gimped in CW) that there is no reason to bother.The only other viable mechs are;

This is just comical. The Stalker has the best hitboxes in the game bar none. It can take so many shots of direct fire and its center will almost always be the last thing to go. No other mech in the game has Hitboxes as good as the Stalker. Those hitboxes are largest reason the Stalker has been ever present in the game.

Not true at all, it has a big disadvantage in that you always hit the side torso and if you know what you are doing it's pretty easy to strip a side and basically completely kill his damage output, not to mention it's so slow that twisting is pretty much not an option.

The stormcrow has the best hitboxes in the game, the entire torso, sides and center are hard to hit and shielded perfectly by the arms, and it twists so fast and so far that you can even swing around and make them hit your back to spread damage completely over your entire mech. The hellbringer and timberwolf have really good hitboxes too, and the speed to really spread the damage.

Saying that the stalker competes with the timber is not true though, the timber has better alpha (and the ability to throw 3 of them in a row) and better damage spreading ability. And in a brawl the timber is still very capable where the stalker is dead meat. It is the closest thing to a clan mechs combination of range and damage that IS has at the moment.

Keep in mind that I'm comparing the 2ERLPL+ 4ERML timber to the stalker-4N they both have similar engagement ranges, if you want to compare the stalker with a 4 ERLL timber then the timber gets a huge range advantage and can pretty easily just stay back to deal superior dps.

Pjwned, on 04 April 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

I don't see why any Stalkers need any energy weapon heat quirks actually, or at least not anything beyond 7.5% less heat for all energy weapons and even that is pushing it.

Because without those quirks nothing in IS can even come close to approaching clan DPS.

Edited by washout, 04 April 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[luxebo]

Pjwned, on 04 April 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

I don't see why any Stalkers need any energy weapon heat quirks actually, or at least not anything beyond 7.5% less heat for all energy weapons and even that is pushing it.

Cause there would be NO reason to play the 4N variant, just spam 5M with missiles and 3F with lazors. Now it's become 4N for the laser boating since PGI overquirked it a bit.

But then again... a Dire Whale can hold 90+ alpha and core Atlases in one alpha. Why we are complaining about the Stalker is beyond me when a Dire Whale can do 90+ in one single alpha. No less.

BTW how many threads have we had this past week about how awesome their Whales were and how they did 1700+ damage in one pug que game? This ain't talking about a CW match where 1700+ is sweet. This is a pug que game we are talking about, the ones where getting 500+ in any mech is sweet. Don't even mention 1000+, and 1700+ is just broken in every point within the 15 minutes a pug match can have.

Lord0fHats, on 04 April 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

and the Clan mech line up is very gimped without good lights or assaults of its own that it can fit into CW.

So the Dire Whale isn't good? So you know coring any mech in the game within one alpha isn't good?

And guess what the Arctic Cheeter is coming. Even our Urbie overlords will be crying about the god almighty Cheeters.

In all aspects though, the Dire Whale shouldn't quite be nerfed either as it's strong, but not that strong due to the NASCAR meta of the recent days. Neither is the Stalker, and nerfing either is calling for even less up-front assaults while Dire Whale will equal out with the Warhawk and Executioner (aka getting quite low in prospect) and Banshee/Kgc only on the IS side without the Stalker.

Edited by luxebo, 04 April 2015 - 05:02 PM.

[Mystere]

luxebo, on 04 April 2015 - 04:55 PM, said:

But then again... a Dire Whale can hold 90+ alpha and core Atlases in one alpha.

Who places less than 100 armor on an Atlas' center torso?

And when did a Direwolf become capable of 90+ PPFLD alpha?

[luxebo]

Mystere, on 04 April 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Who places less than 100 armor on an Atlas' center torso?

And when did a Direwolf become capable of 90+ PPFLD alpha?

2xCGauss + 2xCLPL/ERLLs + 3-4 ERMLs.

Not a total of exactly 100 but it will send it to red if not outright kill it with some team support aka Lurms or simple light in the corner.

And the Atlas DDC/S will end up with maybe 2-3 alphas before the Dire Whale is cored.

Edited by luxebo, 04 April 2015 - 05:09 PM.

[WarZ]

washout, on 04 April 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

If PGI does end up nerfing the stalker all they will have done is proven that they can't even look up player stats. If they did it would be plain as day that the 3 top clan mechs are much, much more powerful than even the currently considered most powerful IS mech, and really it's debatable that the stalker-4n is the most powerful IS mech. The Thunderbolt-5SS and Quickdraw-5K give it a run for the money.

The only circumstance where nerfing the stalker would make sense is if they did a big blanket nerf to all the top mechs at once, inner sphere and clan, otherwise all you are doing is giving the already dominant clan builds even more of a lead.

As for my reasoning for this, I play both IS and clan mechs a lot, when looking at my stats I found that my Stormcrow/Hellbringer stats were right up there with my Pre-nerf wolverene-6k stats (I don't play the timber a lot). To reiterate, the stormcrow is as powerful as the Wolverene-6K and they nerfed that to hell and back, why haven't they nerfed the Stormcrow when it's easily as powerful as something else they considered OP?

You are quite seriously wrong. They are not that powerful. Good yes. Godly no.

A good reference is a player named Jman5 took end of round data from a large pool of matches. He demonstrated that heavies have the highest average damage of any weight class by a very large margin (as well as lights having lowest average damage).

One thing he did for fun was to remove the all the data points for the TBR chasis from the heavy weight class of mechs. Guess what ? The average damage of ~375 damage/per match, dropped a whole 6 points to 368'ish. What does that mean ? That those Timbers you are crying so hard about having very little to statistically none increase in damage / per matches, when compared to all other heavies.

Thats just a basic player run bit of data analysis. Now if PGI does that analysis they will probably see the same thing. If they havent already, therefore there have been no changes to the chasis after all this time.

So long story short ... your crying is just that ... crying from being butthurt by a commonly used chasis that you PERCEIVE as being too good, just because you get killed by them often. Thats what all this crying boils down to.

It's an iconic mech. It's popular. Everyone wanted one BEFORE they came out. So you see a lot of them. Most of the story. And whats not noted is how many negative buffs / nerfs are built into the mechs as well. All noted many times before ... and completely ignored by the people who cry most.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Jman and I recently tested various builds of Timber against the 4N.

The exact builds I used:
TBR-PRIME
TBR-S
TBR-C

Jman's build based off what he's told me:
STK-4N

For the S, if I close the distance, I rolled him. It just doesn't have the twist/turn to keep up with me at chest bumping, face grinding distances.

For the poking Prime, I'd lose. Barely. But I'd still lose. Which was expected as he was in an 85 tonner and the front CT differences are 163 for the Stalker and 137 for the Timby and the ST differences being 107 vs 93. We each dealt ~450 damage to each other with him a hard fart from dead and me dead.

And lastly, was the gauss+ERML build which is more generalized than than the other two with one being full on poke while the other is a butt hugger. As I figured, we went four times and I came out on top twice, barely. The ones I lost I poked. The ones I won I butt hugged.

And we didn't just limit ourselves to that. I threw a dozen different mechs at him. If I tried to poke, he won. If I could close the gap and butt hug, I won (mostly, there is a massive skill gap between he and I and I was the underdog).

End story we discovered? The STK-4N may very well be the best poke mech in the game at the moment.

[Lord0fHats]

washout, on 04 April 2015 - 04:50 PM, said:

Not true at all, it has a big disadvantage in that you always hit the side torso and if you know what you are doing it's pretty easy to strip a side and basically completely kill his damage output, not to mention it's so slow that twisting is pretty much not an option.

It barely has to twist at all to get its side torso to shield its center.



Because the sides tapper in to the nose. It's center profile from the front, is not an easy target so long as the Stalker can hide its legs which, high hard points, not a challenge. It is always preferable to lose a side torso to the CT (unless XL). Even with no Weapons the stalker can go on to body block because its so dang big and continue absorbing ludicrous amonts of shots.

The amount fire it takes to bring a well positioned Stalker down, exceeds that of any other mech In the game.

Quote

The stormcrow has the best hitboxes in the game, the entire torso, sides and center are hard to hit and shielded perfectly by the arms, and it twists so fast and so far that you can even swing around and make them hit your back to spread damage completely over your entire mech. The hellbringer and timberwolf have really good hitboxes too, and the speed to really spread the damage.

No argument they have good boxes, but the Crows arms do not shield it's torsos well. Clans mechs have scrawny arms. I lose them frequently (usually the left first because I twist right most often) because the side torso on the same side has been blown. On most Clan mechs the side torsos go first.

Quote

Saying that the stalker competes with the timber is not true though,

Then all I can say is you're playing the Stalker wrong. As a sniper the Timber will rarely be able to get it's full damage because of the duration of Clan lasers. The Stalker can easily get all it's damage onto one spot and twist/shuffle to cover. + The reality that ranged firefights are team fights, not 1 v 1 duels. The Timber's long fire durations = more time taking hits from the other team, which when it's a full two lances of Stalkers at range we might as well say "Stalkers be blown Timby's left and right".

To me, the Timber's time as a Sniper is over. It can't compete with the Stalker in this field. The Hellbringer performs the job better anyway thanks to hard point placement more favorable to the role.

Quote

Because without those quirks nothing in IS can even come close to approaching clan DPS.

As I keep trying to tell people, in an Alpha meta, DPS means ****. It's all about the ability to deal point damage. In that area, the IS has long surpassed the Clans at Long and Close range (the former due to quirks, the later do to lower cycle times and durations). The Clans hold the advantage at the moment only at Mid-range.

Quote

So the Dire Whale isn't good? So you know coring any mech in the game within one alpha isn't good?

Dire Whales aren't good in CW. Too slow. Too heavy. Even once the Cheetah comes, I expect we'll see a bunch of whales for a week or two cause we'll finally have weight flexibility to put one in a deck without crap mechs, but most of us have already realized that a mech that goes 53 with speed tweakjust isn't going to be useful in CW. No point to all that dakka if your team has to waste 2-3 minutes every wave just waiting for you to show up. And that's just getting to the rally area to attack the gate. What do all those 89/100 kph mechs do now when they make the assault and the whale is still waddling at a snails pace with the defending team already in a fire line.

The logistics of it all just don't work out. The Whale thrives in public que, because maps are small or focused on specific pieces of terrain. Even Alpine and Tourmaline, the fight almost always happens in the same spots.

Also, I never said nerf the Stalker. I'm uncertain if it needs nerfs. The problem of it is as much a problem with the crappy Clan mech line up as it is the Stalker. While I can accept that the 4N got overquirked, I currently want to wait and see how things develop, at least for a week or two to see how it play out. We can always nerf it then if it gets decided the nerf really is needed. If it were to be nerfed, I'd honestly rather the mech's quirks were tonned slightly down. Slightly. I don't like nerfing things to the ground and the Stalker has a good role in CW.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 04 April 2015 - 05:27 PM.

[Deathlike]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 04 April 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

End story we discovered? The STK-4N may very well be the best poke mech in the game at the moment.

That was always the story of the Stalkers since it debuted though. The only reason why the 4N got the best buffs is because there wasn't really any point to using it when there were no quirks... as every other variant had a purpose.

Still, it's hard to argue that PGI is either overly stringent or overzealous with quirks (very little middle ground).

Edited by Deathlike, 04 April 2015 - 05:25 PM.

[luxebo]

Lord0fHats, on 04 April 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

Dire Whales aren't good in CW. Too slow. Too heavy. Even once the Cheetah comes, I expect we'll see a bunch of whales for a week or two cause we'll finally have weight flexibility to put one in a deck without crap mechs, but most of us have already realized that a mech that goes 53 with speed tweakjust isn't going to be useful in CW. No point to all that dakka if your team has to waste 2-3 minutes every wave just waiting for you to show up. And that's just getting to the rally area to attack the gate. What do all those 89/100 kph mechs do now when they make the assault and the whale is still waddling at a snails pace with the defending team already in a fire line.
The logistics of it all just don't work out. The Whale thrives in public que, because maps are small or focused on specific pieces of terrain. Even Alpine and Tourmaline, the fight almost always happens in the same spots.
Also, I never said nerf the Stalker. I'm uncertain if it needs nerfs. The problem of it is as much a problem with the crappy Clan mech line up as it is the Stalker. While I can accept that the 4N got overquirked, I currently want to wait and see how things develop, at least for a week or two to see how it play out. We can always nerf it then if it gets decided the nerf really is needed. If it were to be nerfed, I'd honestly rather the mech's quirks were tonned slightly down. Slightly. I don't like nerfing things to the ground and the Stalker has a good role in CW.

I'm ok if we either buff stuff like Warhawk, Battlemaster, etc to even out the strength of the Stalker, or if we nerf the Stalker slightly, but there isn't any reasoning to nerf it a bit more than a tiny bit, and I rather Mike Forst put in those quirks on the other Clan mechs first when he does (he said preview soon).

Dire Whales might be the very best defensive mech in the game, along with King Crab. On counterattacks they can clearly do work as that mode is to just do damage, nothing else. Attack aka rush aka NASCAR mode, well of course not when Stormcrows can blitz through easier.

On solo or even comp play, Stalkers are generally only mid range gameplay, though generally they would use Dire Whales for longer ranges. Both are strong, but in more cases the Dire Whale is better, utilizing a shield arm, having more alpha, and capable of cooling itself down faster on hot hot hot maps. Stalker has a few advantages like high mounted points and much better hitboxes but firepower > armor on most assaults nowadays.

[InspectorG]

Burktross, on 04 April 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

They need to increase the cost of that consumable...

Now that would just be a blatant cash grab.

[Lord0fHats]

Quote

quirks on the other Clan mechs first when he does (he said preview soon).

Yeah this is one reason for my Ghost Bearish attitude on this. The 7th is supposed to have a Clan quirk pass and we don't know yet how that is going to look.

Quote

Dire Whales might be the very best defensive mech in the game, along with King Crab. On counterattacks they can clearly do work as that mode is to just do damage, nothing else. Attack aka rush aka NASCAR mode, well of course not when Stormcrows can blitz through easier.

Even on the defense its a bad mech. Either the attackers push in hard and fast and the dire gets focused down, leaving that player with nothing but the crappy mechs they picked to bring it, or the enemy team switches sides, and it takes the Dire forever to get back into the fight. The Clans aren't the IS, who gets 10 tons extra to play with in CW vs Clans. That 10 tons has a huge effect, as it suddenly becomes easy to stack a deck with heavies and assaults.

It all honestly just comes down to speed. The Dire is too slow. The Crab and Stalker can switch their engine to get their mechs to a faster speed. 60 KPH is pretty much the break point for usefulness, and the Crab and Stalker both manage to get by that mark.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 04 April 2015 - 05:59 PM.

[Telmasa]

@ OP:

The answer's really very simple.

You nerf all of them. *boosh*


srsbusiness edit:
- CERMLs could use a nerf
- Ghost heat should be reworked such that the specific weapon doesn't matter so much as how much is being alpha'd at once, taking both damage and tonnage into consideration
- Streak6s definitely need a nerf
- Quirks are absolutely gamebreaking & need to be totally rebalanced evenly across *all* mechs as opposed to favoring some fake, arbitrary 'tier' system

Edited by Telmasa, 04 April 2015 - 06:04 PM.

[Lord0fHats]

That fake "arbitrary teir system" existed long before quirks. There is no escaping Meta. So long as people want to play a game competitively, they will meta it.

[Xaiier]

Quxudica, on 04 April 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

...

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 04 April 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say something that will likely get a lot of flak.

Playing the meta makes the game worse.

I'll say it again, this time with bold and underline!

Playing the meta makes the game worse.

Why? Because it makes the game predictable, boring, and repetitive. It turns MWO into Timber Wolf of Duty. It's exactly why the competitive teams are a joke right now, full of the same mechs with the same loadouts using the same tactics on eachother. It's why I try to watch streams on twitch and find myself bored to death watching someone play a build I've seen a billion times. Hooray, you get to show off how good you are, showing all those guys with pistols how good you are at killing them in your tank. Clearly your skills are unrivaled and there's no hidden factor that is amplifying your capacity.

Still not convinced? Lets make an analogy. Suppose there was a gun in COD which didn't require you to aim, you just pressed the trigger and anyone in sight died. Sounds fun right? You can run around effortlessly dominating everyone! Except then everyone else starts using that gun too, and the game just turns into "who can press the trigger fastest" and people get bored of it and stop playing, because there is no longer any intelligence behind the gameplay, its just mindless clicking.

Now lets bring that analogy back into MWO. We've got a few mechs and loadouts which are numerically the best, no matter your skill level. You see this, and so you start using them, because you want to look good! For awhile you dominate, but then everyone else also brings the same loadout, and the gameplay devolves into who clicks first. People get bored, gameplay stagnates, and the game goes downhill. Competitive play turns into click matches between teams running exactly the same builds, solo and group play becomes dominated and quickly overrun by these meta builds, and CW becomes an absolute joke of "bring x or die horribly".

So perhaps you aren't convinced. Consider the poptart meta of old. Do you think that was a good gameplay experience? Did that help bring in new players? Or did it just do the same thing the current one does, force you to either use it or die horribly? Can you really say that the people who used (and abused) the poptart meta had the games interests in mind, or their own?

Also, don't even bother with saying that you enjoy the min/maxing and squeezing the most out of the games math to get the optimal setup. You didn't come up with that yourself, its not some uber secret thing that only the best can figure out. Any noob with a few weeks experience could put together a meta mech. Half the time I consider buying a meta mech, I end up making a loadout that's exactly the same as the meta purely on accident, because its just so obvious what the best setup is.

Now to tie this back into the original topic. Why is this related to the STK-4N potentially getting nerfed? First off, because even though its by far a tier 2 mech, unused in competitive play and with a number of weaknesses, the CW event happened and a lot of whiny meta clanners got killed by them and immediately ran to tell Russ to nerf it so that their incredible performance can remain untouched. BOOM, immediate response as he looks into it. Meanwhile, a certain trinity sit in the #1 spots and has done so for months, despite people on both the nerf the trinity and buff the non-trinity begging for a change. Whats more, nerfing the 4N just means even more players will stop trying to compete with the meta and will simply start using it, resulting in an even more polarized difference between meta and not-meta.

tl;dr don't use meta