291 replies to this topic

[aniviron]

Okay, so a summary of the essay on weapon vs health quirks I wrote above, after a little more digesting: weapon quirks let you choose how to engage, they are 'active.' You choose when to shoot your weapons, what range you want to engage at, what you want to shoot. Health quirks are 'passive,' and are only useful in situations where you are taking ~90% of your damage anyway. Furthermore, most armor/structure quirks are located in places that rarely get shot, i.e. legs and arms. The only mechs that should have leg or arm health quirks are ones that frequently lose legs or arms, either because the weapons are concentrated there (Centurion) or the arms are overscaled badly (Mist Lynx).

[pcunite]

This update requires administrative privileges to run the game.

[Sagedabluemage]

kewl! new changes, i cant wait to test them out. Me being an adder fanatic, i welcome any change for trying new things. but still hoping for a rework on flamers and or maybe a quirk for a hardwired flamer we has on it.

[Soy]

Lily from animove, on 07 April 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

because if you would invest JJ's into speed your survivability would increase since appearing and disappearing is easier.

You miss the point of the mech; still.

Nightmare1, on 07 April 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

Firing one arm from around cover is one of the strong points of the Nova. In that regard, it is similar to a Hunchback. Personally speaking, I link my left and right arms to triggers 1 and 2, respectively. I then use Triggers 3 and 4 to fire two lasers from each arm, while Trigger 5 is a master chain firing Trigger.

As for JJs, the tonnage invested in them would be better used in Heat Sinks. Unless you are running a CERPPC or CG build, you can't effectively poptart in a Nova. Thus, the JJs are rather useless unless you want to try mountain climbing. I would switch mine out for Heat Sinks on my Prime in a heartbeat if I could. I would keep them on my other two variants though since I made them into CERPPC jump snipers.

No...

1) Firing from around a boulder is not what the Nova was meant to do. The Crow can do that. Much better.
2) It is similar to the hunchback in terms of weapon and firing cadence and dmg placement, but beyond that, it has JJs. So no.
3) The tonnage would not be better spent in HS, what is wrong with you.

Tarogato, on 06 April 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

I can't be the only person disappointed that the Nova can torso twist at all.

No you're just one of those rare guys who thinks TT should dictate whether or not the mech would even be useful at all. If a mech did not have torso twist it would not even exist in the game cuz it would be ******* DEAD.

Sjorpha, on 06 April 2015 - 11:58 PM, said:

Please tell me which other light, IS or Clan, can use 2 ERPPCs effectively at all? None, only the Adder can.

What the hell are you smoking. Dual PPC Nova is now - definitively - the one, the only, Clan poptart sniper. Period. End of discussion. Bring me an Adder and I will devour its soul.

Lily from animove, on 07 April 2015 - 02:11 AM, said:

turn rates are rather irrelevant on the nova.

It's actually important but they ruined the torso turn rate on the mech by about a quarter. Which means snapshotting and quick turns to soak incoming projectiles, etc. But by increasing structure and armor, and removing a quarter of its turn rate, you can't even soak that extra armor buff it just got properly. Cuz you'll turn a lot slower. It is what it is.

[Tarogato]

Soy, on 07 April 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

No you're just one of those rare guys who thinks TT should dictate whether or not the mech would even be useful at all. If a mech did not have torso twist it would not even exist in the game cuz it would be ******* DEAD.

I respectfully disagree. You'd simply have to use it differently. At least it would be unique in the game. It would have an exceedingly low profile (probably the height of the Adder at most) and probably very favourable hitboxes. Just because it can't torso twist properly don't mean it would be useless or even unviable. And don't expect it to be a competitively/meta mech, because it could never be that, no matter which way you model it.

[Soy]

I'm not gonna dignify someone talking about a mech that would have no torso being viable in this game.

No, it wouldn't, you're a [surat], sit the **** down. I'm sorry for responding this way but, just, you'll get it. One day. Hopefully.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 08 April 2015 - 03:30 AM.
Insult

[Jabilo]

Further to previous mistakes with the MLX sheet there are discrepencies on the Kit Fox spread sheet as well, with various quirks removed and not listed.

I do not have the time to read every sheet with the un-updated Smurfys on a separate window just to check your work. If you can not be bothered to do the job properley then I am not going to bother reading the rest.

[Duke Nedo]

Quick glance just... Summoner MG quirks? Does not compute, otherwise seems not too bad. Some small disappointments like the SMN-C RA being hands down better and only available for cash etc.

[Nightmare1]

Soy, on 07 April 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

No...

1) Firing from around a boulder is not what the Nova was meant to do. The Crow can do that. Much better.
2) It is similar to the hunchback in terms of weapon and firing cadence and dmg placement, but beyond that, it has JJs. So no.
3) The tonnage would not be better spent in HS, what is wrong with you.

Well, you certainly didn't read my post!

1) I never made any sort of statement about what the Nova was "meant to do." I merely said that firing an arm around a corner was a strong point of the chassis in the current game environment. In that perspective, I am not wrong. What the purpose of the chassis should have been, I'll leave to you. I simply know from running it that the tactic I just described is quite useful.

2) I was speaking simply in terms of poking around a corner to fire; nothing else. Also, just for general reference, it's okay to say that a Mech with JJs is like a Mech that doesn't have JJs. the latter simply has better terrain coverage than the former, but they can still fight similarly. A good example would be the BoomHawk versus the HBK.

3) At this risk of parroting, allow me to counter with, "What is wrong with you?" Seriously, it really depends on the build. If you had paid attention to my post, you would have realized that I was talking about JJs versus DHS in relation to specific situations. For example, I have little need for JJs on my Nova Prime. Ergo, I would prefer the tonnage be used for DHS. However, my other two variants need the JJs to be most functional. Ergo, I prefer to keep the JJs on them. The entire point is that it would be better if PGI unlocked the JJs and allowed the pilots to decide how their Mechs should be built. That is half the fun of the game, after all, and would lead to greater Mech functionality.

So, next time, try reading and understanding a person's entire post before you go off half-cocked. If you make the effort, you not only won't make a fool of yourself, but you might actually be able to offer a reply that fits with the person's topic of conversation, whether you assume an agreeable or disagreeable stance.

[Star Colonel Silver Surat]

Soy, on 07 April 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

I'm not gonna dignify someone talking about a mech that would have no torso being viable in this game.

No, it wouldn't, you're a moron, sit the **** down. I'm sorry for responding this way but, just, you'll get it. One day. Hopefully.

You're assuming it has the same agility as other mechs. Imagine with your small intellect if you can, that this overhauled non-torso twisting Nova has far better acceleration and turning rate, plus more functional quick turn jump jets. It would be totally viable, and unique. They could even bind left and right mouse movement to be a sidestep/strafe function that would be unique to the mech, allowing it to jinx laterally in and out of cover.
.

Edited by Star Colonel Silver Surat, 07 April 2015 - 01:20 PM.

[Soy]

Star Colonel Silver Surat, on 07 April 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

You're assuming it has the same agility as other mechs. Imagine if you can, that this overhauled non-torso twisting Nova has far better acceleration and turning rate, plus more functional quick turn jump jets. It would be totally viable, and unique. They could even bind left and right mouse movement to be a sidestep/strafe function that would be unique to the mech, allowing it to jinx laterally in and out of cover.

Wow so it only needs to have a complete redesign, and inject completely unique and new mechanics. Good luck getting programmers to do that. Do you guys even have the slightest clue how a game functions. Why am I responding to this drivel.

Nightmare1, on 07 April 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

Well, you certainly didn't read my post!

1) I never made any sort of statement about what the Nova was "meant to do." I merely said that firing an arm around a corner was a strong point of the chassis in the current game environment. In that perspective, I am not wrong. What the purpose of the chassis should have been, I'll leave to you. I simply know from running it that the tactic I just described is quite useful.

2) I was speaking simply in terms of poking around a corner to fire; nothing else. Also, just for general reference, it's okay to say that a Mech with JJs is like a Mech that doesn't have JJs. the latter simply has better terrain coverage than the former, but they can still fight similarly. A good example would be the BoomHawk versus the HBK.

3) At this risk of parroting, allow me to counter with, "What is wrong with you?" Seriously, it really depends on the build. If you had paid attention to my post, you would have realized that I was talking about JJs versus DHS in relation to specific situations. For example, I have little need for JJs on my Nova Prime. Ergo, I would prefer the tonnage be used for DHS. However, my other two variants need the JJs to be most functional. Ergo, I prefer to keep the JJs on them. The entire point is that it would be better if PGI unlocked the JJs and allowed the pilots to decide how their Mechs should be built. That is half the fun of the game, after all, and would lead to greater Mech functionality.

So, next time, try reading and understanding a person's entire post before you go off half-cocked. If you make the effort, you not only won't make a fool of yourself, but you might actually be able to offer a reply that fits with the person's topic of conversation, whether you assume an agreeable or disagreeable stance.

Firing an arm around a rock is not a current strong point of the chassis. Period.

Saying that a mech that can poptart is similar to a mech that cannot poptart is ******* STUPID. Otherwise, lets compare 3D to old K2 back in the day oh wait no that's completely asinine. gg

If you have little use for JJs on Nova, you are playing it wrong. End of.

I understand your position, and it's woefully naive. Sorry. This is an important discussion so for the sake of clarity and efficiency of feedback/communication, stop talking. Thanks.

[Anakha]

Mike,

Thanks for your feedback to the players, much appreciated.

Did some testing of Summoner quirks and again I want to mention this mech desperately needs the ability to upgrade to Endo Steel for tonnage. Or quirks that replace Artemis, provide weapon cool downs, or lower heat generation to make up for this. It is extremely hot hot hot in almost all builds because of the 5 locked JJ's creating heat and lack of tonnage for HS.

First off thank you for the added int. structure on the legs that was desperately needed and I like the options of more structure or some small agility quirks.

I also like the added laser beam duration quirk to go with the 4% heat reduction but 4% and 6% is not noticeable and is on the gift store variant. Can we get these same quirks on the Summoner D left arm please? I did test these (results below) and they have no effect on combat at those levels.

The various small 5% turn rate and yaw rate etc.. quirks are not noticeable to me when playing at all btw for what that's worth.

4/5ths of the Summoners weapons are in the arms but only some of the Omnipods received structure quirks, why did they not all get it and why structure as opposed to armour to protect the weapons in them? I think all the Summoners arms need some additional armour. They get shot off easily because of how they move up and cover the torso's when moving due to the poor animation. Maybe you can make a note to have them look into that?

4% laser heat gen 6% beam duration: (test was done with default 14DHS)
4ERML Alphas before overheat with this quirk: 5
4ERML Alphas before overheat without this quirk: 5
Result: No effect on combat ability can you please add additional energy heat reduction that has a noticeable effect on combat and the beam duration is not noticeable in combat.

4% SRM Spread Reduction: (Test performed with 1 SRM 6 against a Victor on Crimson at 250M)
Shots to Kill:
1SRM6 no artemis no quirks: 20
1SRM6 with 4% Spread Quirk: 20
1SRM6 with Artemis: 15
1SRM6 with Artemis and Quirk: 15
Result: Almost no effect and does not replace artemis or improve it
The additional 2% missile speed is not noticeable during combat

4% LRM Spread Reduction: (Test perfomed with 1 LRM 20 against a Victor on Crimson at 400M)
Shots to Kill:
1LRM 20 no Artemis no Quirk: 15
1LRM 20 no Artemis with Quirk: 15
1LRM 20 with Artemis no Quirk: 12
1LRM 20 with Artemis With Quirk: 12
Result: No effect with or without Artemis for LRM's. If you are going to add a spread reduction quirk it should replace having to use Artemis or enhance it but it does neither on SRMS or LRMS:

AMS Quirks: Have a slight effect but due to lack of tonnage most players do not use AMS on Summoners:

Machine Gun Quirks: Nobody uses machine guns on Summoners or any heavy mech for that matter please consider changing these to generic ballistic quirks that increase velocity, cool down, or heat gen.

Narc Quirks: Again nobody uses Narcs on Summoners please consider replacing with generic missile quirks. Specifically missile cool down would be nice.

Left Arm Ballistic Quirks: I think these would be solid if they were on the CT so we could place our ballistic weapon in the torso's. By putting these only on the left arms you are restricting where we can put our weapons. Remember these are omnimechs not IS mechs and the only thing we can customize are the omnipods and where we want to place our weapons. By putting these large ballistic quirks on the left arms you are restricting our ability to do that. The summoner only has 4 energy hard points in the arms and any good build starts with that since the energy weapons are by far the best clan weapon type.

A generic missile cooldown on one of the LT would be very nice for most summoner builds that only carry 1 missile hardpoint in the LT. Most Summoner builds are energy in the arms, ballistic in the RT and one missile in the LT.

Thanks for listening!

[NocturnalBeast]

Soy, on 07 April 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

Wow so it only needs to have a complete redesign, and inject completely unique and new mechanics. Good luck getting programmers to do that. Do you guys even have the slightest clue how a game functions. Why am I responding to this drivel.

The Urbanmech required having parts of the game redesigned to enable the 360 degree torso twist....just sayin'.

[Livewyr]

So PGI, much wow:

Inner Sphere Quirks- The quirkening! Way overdone quirks, OP monsters some of them.. better dial it down..... slo...oooo......wly.
Clan quirks- Wouldn't want to make them OP like we did those IS mechs, better dial them up.... slo....ooooo......wwww......lyyyyy.

Is there anyone on the quirk related staff that actually likes clan mechs? Anyone?

[DeathlyEyes]

It'd be nice if PPC's didn't require quirks to be useful (PPC velocity quirks). Quirks should make the weapons better not usable.

[Soy]

Ed Steele, on 07 April 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

The Urbanmech required having parts of the game redesigned to enable the 360 degree torso twist....just sayin'.

Increasing torso twist to go all the way around is likely an easier thing to do than making lateral Jump Jet mechanics. JJs have been an issue for years, why not try and throw a huge monkey wrench in there for one total mech, which would be ruined anyways if it couldn't even ******* torso twist like the guy was saying. Hello???

[Amardez]

Livewyr, on 07 April 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

So PGI, much wow:

Inner Sphere Quirks- The quirkening! Way overdone quirks, OP monsters some of them.. better dial it down..... slo...oooo......wly.
Clan quirks- Wouldn't want to make them OP like we did those IS mechs, better dial them up.... slo....ooooo......wwww......lyyyyy.

Is there anyone on the quirk related staff that actually likes clan mechs? Anyone?

So it isn't just me with that feeling, this is to slow guys people are losing patience not to mention things like giving more than 180 deg turn is umm more than a little over sight so even when taking it slow mistakes are being made . . . . so get it over with go to 5% Jumps and tune from there yeah you might get a little to far but there even with stacking are no the 9s saga.

[Bloodweaver]

Skyrider1746, on 06 April 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

love the way the new quirks look. but can we get more of a heat reduction on the Adder, and Warhawk's ERPPC's? (or maybe just make the C-ERPPC 15 pinpoint damage, this works too)

This is something I'd really like to see implemented for certain Clan variants only. It should be applicable to 'Mechs that not only use PPCs in their stock configurations, but use them almost exclusively. The builds that would justifiably receive this quirk? Stock Summoner Prime, Warhawk Prime, and Adder Prime. Three that have been underbalanced from their appearance in MWO up until this very day.

At bare minimum, a sliding scale of increasing damage accuracy per 'Mech would be nice - with Summoner Prime getting the full 15 points of damage(seeing as it can only carry one PPC), the Adder Prime getting 13 or 14 in the central hit, and the Warhawk Prime getting 12 or 13. Retention of lower arm actuators when using PPCs would be appreciated as well, especially in the Summoner.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 07 April 2015 - 04:22 PM.

[Mike Forst]

I don't have quirks that can modify C-ERPPC splash damage. In fact, I can't modify the damage value of any weapon at all through quirks.

[Deathlike]

There are some notable errors in the quirk list.

The Gargoyle-A's 8-set quirk increased the torso pitch instead of the torso yaw of the mech. I actually like the current quirk (rare moment since the 8-omnipod quirk is generally useless/ineffective when other combos are combined).

Also, the Gargoyle-Prime's quirks are slightly asymmetrical. I forget exactly which arm has it, but one of them has +4% missile velocity (left arm, having checked smurfy) instead of the +3% listed (only right arm has correct value).

The SRM spread doesn't seem to work on the Mist Lynx (seems like someone else tested it and it seems to confirm this theory/opinion on a different mech).

In general, the Mist Lynx quirks are underwhelming due to how the arms get shot off so readily (even with full armor on the arms)... it's almost as if you need to do the "Hunchie's Hunch" or "Catapult's Missile Ears" level of quirks as I feel that you need to give those arms the level of a 50-tonner's arm (Trebuchet, Centurion, Nova) due to how large those arms happen to be.

So... the quirks still need massive work on certain mechs.

Edited by Deathlike, 07 April 2015 - 04:47 PM.