291 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Duke Nedo, on 08 April 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

Don't jump to the conclusion that I am saying that the Nova is a good corner peeker, but you know it is perfectly possible to shoot in your first 3rd person screenshot. There's also the somewhat creative method of using a tag as laser sight and fire the other 5 lasers on the arm when the reticule turns red. In any case, this argument is too infected, the Nova is imo not a very good peeker of any kind, nor a good pop-tarter. I only have success with it when I manage to dance the midrange and avoid attention, then it can wreck face.

Anyways, I played my NVA-S a few games yesterday and had a blast with it. Still too slow OR too large to be really good, but that robot IS fun to play, very viable in puglandia but not a very useful CW robot. Because of the quirks I scrapped by 10x SPL boat for a full S omnipod 6x MPL, 4x MG build and it was actually better than anticipated. 5 kills/700 damage was the best match, average well above 500 dmg, an most importantly lots of fun. I may try the asymmetric 10x SPL build proposed by mgral in another thread for my -prime tonight.

Thank you! Someone who understands my point of view on the Nova!

Sheesh, you say one thing and all the little forum chihuahuas come out to take it out of context and start yipping at you.

[Lily from animove]

Mike Forst, on 07 April 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

It's there in my spreadsheet to remind me that the energy point there is not really usable and that I should not quirk it. I removed it during the previous info dump but forgot to this time. It's still hardlocked.



Well I try to keep it as accurate as possible but sometimes mistakes happen.




The CT buff might be too small. I'll see how it goes and re-evaluate.



Because the idea is to at least give players options about what quirks they want on their mechs. This is one thing that the Clans get that the IS won't: the ability to build your own quirk set. Everyone has different playstyles and I'd like to provide more flexibility into what movement profiles a player would like. They alternative is to have them all the same or not haave quirks on them and that's just as bad in the other way.

Thx for the answers Mike, surely with all the tables some copy and paste stuff will always go wrong xD.
*tables tables everywhere*

I wonder now, when you are deciding the quirks, what were your thoughts about some comparisons?.
I undertsand your goal, with trying to give people options on what quirks they want to have, but some attemps just didn't worked or totally failed.

The first thing is, you need to understand how we clanplayers build a mech.

The very first thing is we compare the hardpoints the mech has, and what build we want to run. This decides the omnipods we go for. Then we look at the quirks, and if those are appealing enough to adjust the build to take another pod.
But here we already have the first issue. Some pods do not really differ, and the competiton of pods seem to have a weird choice.

lets take the GARgoyle as example:


Look at the RT's of the gargoyle. One of them has 9 more Hitpoints, the other come with some 2.5% bonus on very very low valuable features. Those do definately not outclass the 9 HP in any competition.

I see no reason, why anyone would not choose the prime RT. pitchrates, angles and speeds need to be significantly higher if you want a gargoyle pilot have a "hard time" to decide if he wants to use the Prime RT or any other RT. but with the current values, I see no reason why iI should not go Prime RT.

The only reason to do so, would be wanting some of the Set quirk the non prime chassis have. But they also have those "secndoary importnat stats" that are so low, its not really worth it.

Same for the GAR-C LT, its a rather easy decision to choose it no matter what my config will look like except the moment I explicitely want to have an AMS.


And so basically you do give me a choice, thats right, but the choice is no real choice, because I know prime RT > the others.
And many CT's have the exact same issues:
The Gargoyle A has in my eyes with those values absolutley no purpose.
The primes CT reverse speed helps for cornerpopping tactics.
The D's CT as well, but players need to if 5% reverse speed equals 5% acc/decc.
The C's 5% turn rate, may help in a brawl to twist away damage. yet I think it is not really an appealing value. Especially not on clanmechs, where balistics are stream weapons and lasers have longer burn time. This quirk suddenly gets very unappealing at all.

And so the GAR-C and especially Gargoyle A will not be a choice for most sane clanplayers. This means after I have decided what build I want and what omnipods I want, I will not use these 2 CT's ever.
And so the omnipod ability of changing all other components is just dooming some CT's to not being used. And this counters the entire Omnipod idea, where the mech is getting equipped with omnipods. Since now I choose omnipods and equip the mech I need for those pods. On top of this, the prime and D even have some additional hard points to their better quirks. This is not a choice for a player with common sense. Or at least its a choice like "Do you want to bring a bicycle to the indy 500?"

You need to reconsider these "higher priority values" to stay equally on all the CT's otherwise this totally kills the omnipod idea.

I think this is what disappoints most people with those quirks, because we have a choice, but with the things that really matters and how some values are chosen, the true choice is often gone and the config is dictated.

And the same goes for the adder, 10% more decc/acc and reverse speed. vs some angle and turn speeds? In no config that I would take serious, would any non ADR Prime CT have a place. All these quirks did is making 2 of my adder chassis obsolete. That I either have to rebuy more prime chassis, or permanently have to swap the laodout on my ADR prime. But this is a big let down. Because I bought mechpackages of omnimechs to be lazy, to not having to swap weapons all the time. Yet with this knowing that some CT's will have different quirks, this ability is lost. And mostlikely I will possibly have up to n-1 of n chassis being inferior. IS mechs totally differ form each others, but Omnimechs not. And my motivation to buy any further Omnimech packs is lower than I ever thought it would be. Basically because you are not really selling any omnimechs anymore now.

Please change this and give all CT's that do not differ in hardpoints the same quirks. Pods and their laodout define the purpose of a omnimech, and so they should bring the quriks related to these. CT quirks should be quirks that affect the entire mech equally across all variants.

Also, don't give me a choice for other quirks, give me a REASON why I want them.
Quirks will be chosen well, when I have to pull out my hair thinking: "But I want those quirks, and those, but this means, not getting this and this. Dammit, both is good, but I can't have them both. GRRRR"

but currently its more like:

"this is nonsense, this is nonse,, so whats left? ah this, ok, gonna I make it like hat."

little example on the adder:

The first thing I do is compare the pods and their qirks, no matter what I want to build, then I cross out what I consider as unsuited or general nonsense:


This choice was not even done by my "personal favour" it was done wih the objectivity what matters in MWO's mechbattles in mind.

So basically, 8 of 18 podlocations are no choice at all, they are just inferior to the others available mostly by secondary important (aka pointless) quirks.
4/4 set quirks are not a choice since they include using a pod that is a no choice.

Whats is left are 20 pods. Of those pods, only 6 are actually TRUE choices. Because here I DO choose quirks. In all other cases I chose hardpoints and get the quirks. So when I play PPC's there is no real choice, even if I can use the ADR-B arms with PPC's this is not a choice. Becaue one affects them, the other not. Same if I play lasers, I will not play lasers ever on the Prime arms, because the choice is there to either get quirks, or not get any at all. Same for missiles, If I want missiles in my arms, or my ST's or fully missile boat, there is no choice, there is just take what those pods came with.

If you wanted to make people choose you could have made somthing different like:

Prime arm:
PPC velocity +7.5%
Energy heat generation: 5%

ADR-B
Beam duration -10%
Energy range range +7.5%


Now people DO HAVE A CHOICE:
I can use the PPC on both arms, with different effects. because on prime arms, I get less heat, and faster PPC's but the B arms will grant me more range even on my PPC's But I can not have both features on full values.

I can also use lasers on both, with different effects. I can choose prime arms and get heat reduction on my lasers, or I use B arms and get more range and better pinpoint damage by shorter beam durations. But again I can not have both features on full values.

and hey I could use 1 Prime and 1 B arm, and mix both features as a third choice. yet no full benefit in range vs heat. as before.

That would be real choices, but the current is not, the current is a choice which is already kinda preselected because lasers are not affected by the PPC arm pods, and PPC's are not effected by the laser arm pods.

There is a tiny bit of choice between ADR A and B Torsos when it comes to lasers, but wiht the fact that every clanbuild runs hot, the ability to get cooldown on too hot weapons is not a real choice. especially not with 4% cooldown totaly.

I am not sure how much freedom PGI grants you at those choices, but you should probably work together with the community and ask them what would make the pod more appealing over another, and people will also tell you when one of the quirks will get too insane.

So please bear in mind, when a choice is a real choice, and reconsider if you truly want CT's do differ in quriks, because this is not much the kind of choice you think it is, it will in most cases just make some chassis entirely obsolete. And people don't play or buy obsolete chassis, which then means PGI doesn't sell obsolete chassis.



And if you aren't too tired of what I all wrote, here something about he Nova and what you may put into our sheet and can consider about.

Spoiler

At first my picture of the quirks in my mind:


unfortunately a lot red crossed stuff tbh. and choice? well choice there is not much. Most lodouts will have a clear pod choice.

I like that you tried to give it quirks to differ weapon usage and that certain weapon types get a buff while others not, that makes ER lasers getting something while SPL's don't on the Prime arms. That was a good idea, yet it killed choice. because the 10SPL build will still use the prime arms. and any medium pulse build will always use the S arms. because there is nothing to gain on other arms. This is mostly caused by the fact of the values being chosen totally identically.

Good is also, you addressed main issues for the Nova, mainly durability and agility. yet I think a few values went a bit off, especially for the CT interbalance, but I spoke about general CT quirks before. arms were a bit overbuffed, and ST's CT's a bit underbuffed, legs got some unreasonable buffs tbh. So redistributing those HP would help massively.

So what I do is reducing leg and arm HP buffs, and increasing St and CT. overlal this should if not miscalculated be now 2 less total HP, but better distributed.

For the different E arms, well to make a real choice, the given features have to affect at leats all E weapons you put in there, ot the majority. This means more generic quirks, and less specific quirks.

Then I added some real set boni, soemthing that will make it appeqling, for example to use the gimpled 2PPC in the arms nova over a 2 PPC's or Large lasers in the Torsi nova. because such differences are a huge tradeoff, and if you want people to use those gimped stockpods, make them appealing. Otheriwse all the love put into those set bonus will only apply on poor trial users. This Set bonus is I think also the right way to make the stockloadouts more appealing. And like on the adder example above, we gonna give some real choices on the arms.

becaue currently 1E vs 6E vs 6E does affect firepower, yet if I want to use something like a Large Pulselasers, there is no choice, there is only one true choice for the RA. (NVA-S arm) and only a small on the NVA-B arm vs NVA-S LA. but with pitiful 6% reduced duration this is not very appealing delta to choose the NVA-B's arm.

Here is what I would have done wiht trying to keep your range of values into mind.: But I left out all AMS quirks, because I dunno what they are good for, they really hardly serve a purpose or make ams somewhat appealing. you cna still add them if you think they really matter.





Now what you can see is, the set bonis got raised a LOT. because if set boni aren't amazing enough, the pod min maxing will never make them truly appealing or even inferior for some builds. Thats not really good. What still bothrs me is that the set skills may still violte the omnipod ability a bit too much. but lets call them a small bonus for stickin to the stocklaodout, which not always is the optimum.

All the CT's now are equal, and got soem quirks removed, which I either distrubuted to somewhere else (Set bonus) or just left out. Some were nonsense.

Armor/structure buffs were redistributed as said above. In total its slightly less than before.

Arms now differ a bit more to make every lasercategory a real choice.

What you can see now, all legs are more or less a choice. I upped the Turnrate on the legs from 2.5% to 4%. because 1% Turn rate speed is not equally to 1% acc/decc or reverse speed. therefore those 4% seem to make more sense to call them a competitive choice now.

But wait isn't the Prime RT not inferior to the NVA-A RT?
Yes it is, in direct comparison, this is true. but the difference is very very low, and so trying get the pod bonus may override this small difference.
Generally I will have many choices now, which are actually truly inconvininent.

So when i go with a ER laserbuild, I can go 8/8 prime, to grab 10% heat reduction and 10% duration reduction.
or I could grab the B YT, granting me 5% more range. but then I lose the beam duration reduction. That is atm, a true choice.
I could also use S arms and B torso, granting me up to 9% more range in total, but this will be without any heat reduction.

But when someone is choosing 8CERML, which is one of the used builds that some actually really drive. He has still a choice. A choice for primes, getting 10% heat. or he is getting Pod Bonus. He could also slam in all the S arms with 3 CERML each and 2 CERML in eahc torso. this makes the build a bit more durable to losing both arms and being without weapons. it will not grant any heat reduction. yet will grant 9% more range. Thats a juicy range buff, yet a ratherharsh tradeoff to the possible 10% heat reduction of th prime arms.

Or I just mix some range and heat reduction.

There are now real choices that differ in their outcome, the PPC mech is probably the only one being rather much "pushed" to use the NVA-A pods because he can gain a totla of 10% heat reduction by this and even 5% more range. But only in case he is using the lower slung stock arm hardpoints. otherwise he will have to deal with only 6% cooling and no range benefit, but better hardpoint locations. Thats a real trade off, a real choice to make.

But once you want different quirks of the legs, you may have to screw all the setboni over. Yet the majority of given pods still allow you to choose some range Energy bonus, or some heat reduction, or laser duration. The legs now also provide the movement profiles you were talking of together with some set bonus. because especially the NVA B stock pods need a more brawl and movement suited profile. Thats why it got quite some bigger movement quirks on the set bonus.
this is 20% in total and by this 7.5% more than the other possible combinations allow. A real difference, without biasing the CT's in 1on 1 comparison too much. Because before I could grab 17.5% of those movement for any loadout by just choosing the CT and legs for this. Now this big benefit applies only for the laodout that really needs this.

With those quirks, I do atm really now know if I want a raw prime to run, or gab agility feets and Range Torso to my prime arms.
But important is, at the moment where I do not want to go for set bonus anymore, it does nto care is my "base" is a prime, A, B, or S Nova. They will all do their job equally well.


So that was just atm, my Idea about quirks I would give the Nova. Some may still be not totally without flaw, but they make in total concept more sense and offer true choices.

Wow, this giant wall o text, I wonder if you truly even read it.

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 April 2015 - 08:16 AM.

[Mike Forst]

Amardez, on 07 April 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

Then you are making some bad choices with your base system aren't you. . . I had hoped you would be pulling out all the stops to get things balanced seeing as it seem to be a major focus why limit to range, speed, spread damages seems like a natural addition to the list. Do you guys ever wish you could redesign the system you use, it seem to cause you a lot of issues and end up limiting things like Mech speed

I wish for a lot of things and do submit feature requests. They take time to implement though.

[kingade]

Mike Forst, on 08 April 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

I wish for a lot of things and do submit feature requests. They take time to implement though.

Solaris? <3

[Grey Death Storm]

InnerSphereNews, on 06 April 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

Introduction

April 7 will bring another round of quirks for some Clan OmniPods. Four Mechs got a complete new pass while the four Mechs that got quirks last patch have had some of their quirks revised.

Sets of 8
This patch introduces new quirks for keeping all 8 OmniPods for a chassis together. The current XP bonus has not been removed.

Chart Legend

• Cells with no background were not changed.
  
• Cells that are cyan had their quirk value reduced or removed:
  
  • Bolded text means the value was reduced.
    
  • Strikethrough text means the value was removed.
• Cells with a yellow background are either new or increased quirks.

New Quirks



Mist Lynx



Kit Fox



Nova



Warhawk



Revised Quirks

Adder



Ice Ferret
The Ice Ferret had to lose some of the additional torso twist amount quirks it got in the last patch due to it being able to go beyond 180 degrees. This caused some Bad Things to happen.


Summoner



Gargoyle

HI Jeezes guys what is it trying to do give us a headache 'its working !!!' god the color scheme is rather bright outlined' lol or is it your master plan that everyone will stop reading about quirks system when they start getting headaches in bid stop people seeing what the quirks are ???

Edited by Death Storm, 08 April 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[Alienized]

would be nice to see Firestarters engines capped at 250 rating, same for ravens.
too fast is too fast. especially for the firepower they have currently.
also, banshee 3S has a rating of 345 the others 400. just make it 350 for all....

redoing some engine caps might be alot easier than fixing some quirks on IS side.

[Nightmare1]

Mike Forst, on 08 April 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

I wish for a lot of things and do submit feature requests. They take time to implement though.

If wishes were horses.

Alienized, on 08 April 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

would be nice to see Firestarters engines capped at 250 rating, same for ravens.
too fast is too fast. especially for the firepower they have currently.
also, banshee 3S has a rating of 345 the others 400. just make it 350 for all....

redoing some engine caps might be alot easier than fixing some quirks on IS side.

Actually, I think they are all fine as they are. Nerfing a chassis simply because you don't like a feature about it isn't really a good reason to nerf it. Frankly speaking, I don't find either the FS or the RVN overpowered in their current states when placed in a general battle. For Light on Light warfare, they may be the best two to take, sure. But that will always be the case with Mechs - one will always rise to the top. Nerf it, and another will take it's place; it's an endless cycle. The Firestarters and Ravens are established with well-known counters, strengths, and weaknesses. Why start the cycle over again when we're already familiar enough with these two as they are?

Also, just fyi, if you reduced the engine tonnage it would just free up tonnage for more weapon systems making them even more dangerous against Lights. I know I would switch some of my SPLs for MPLs.

[Alienized]

Nightmare1, on 08 April 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

Actually, I think they are all fine as they are. Nerfing a chassis simply because you don't like a feature about it isn't really a good reason to nerf it. Frankly speaking, I don't find either the FS or the RVN overpowered in their current states when placed in a general battle. For Light on Light warfare, they may be the best two to take, sure. But that will always be the case with Mechs - one will always rise to the top. Nerf it, and another will take it's place; it's an endless cycle. The Firestarters and Ravens are established with well-known counters, strengths, and weaknesses. Why start the cycle over again when we're already familiar enough with these two as they are?

Also, just fyi, if you reduced the engine tonnage it would just free up tonnage for more weapon systems making them even more dangerous against Lights. I know I would switch some of my SPLs for MPLs.

im not caring about their sole firepower. im caring about the combination of hitreg issues, canonicity, overquirked weapon percentages and so on.
the spider and locust are full with hitreg failures but they lack the firepower and are well balanced as they are. they are lights in every aspect.
seeing 2 firestarters running through a complete team without dying because:
gausses hit but dont register. PPC hit and dont register.
full laser vomits hit and damage is not really there.

it is like them beeing invincible and everyone that is not a simple blind fanboy dislikes how Firestarters are atm.

i play ravens myself and sometimes i wonder how i didnt die. the 130kph raven i have definetly gets hit better than the 142kph huginn.

overall most mechs have been WAY too fast as they should ever been.
you can always trade some MPLs for spls then because the shots at you actaully hit then. fair enough eh?

also, saying that i want to see mechs nerfed because i dont *like* them is utter bs.
some mechs are simply not balanced within their class. ravens been used out of their role for the most part.
thats something i dislike because we are STILL in a battletech game where mechs had a role.

[Nightmare1]

Alienized, on 08 April 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

im not caring about their sole firepower. im caring about the combination of hitreg issues, canonicity, overquirked weapon percentages and so on.
the spider and locust are full with hitreg failures but they lack the firepower and are well balanced as they are. they are lights in every aspect.
seeing 2 firestarters running through a complete team without dying because:
gausses hit but dont register. PPC hit and dont register.
full laser vomits hit and damage is not really there.

it is like them beeing invincible and everyone that is not a simple blind fanboy dislikes how Firestarters are atm.

i play ravens myself and sometimes i wonder how i didnt die. the 130kph raven i have definetly gets hit better than the 142kph huginn.

overall most mechs have been WAY too fast as they should ever been.
you can always trade some MPLs for spls then because the shots at you actaully hit then. fair enough eh?

also, saying that i want to see mechs nerfed because i dont *like* them is utter bs.
some mechs are simply not balanced within their class. ravens been used out of their role for the most part.
thats something i dislike because we are STILL in a battletech game where mechs had a role.

Every video game in existence has a meta and has components, characters, and weapons that fit niche roles better than others. You'll never be able to prevent that. Like I said, if you nerf one feature of the game, something else will take its place in a never-ending cycle. It's better to just accept that some things will be better than others, fix obvious problems (like hit reg), and move on to better things.

Frankly, if the FS got a major speed nerf, I would use it considerably less. I don't run Lights very often, but when I do, I do it because of the high speeds. It's fun to go zipping around. That's one reason why I was a bit disappointed with the Panther. It's slow which makes it less fun to pilot. It's also why the Locust is my favorite Light. It doesn't have much firepower, but it's so fun to pilot! Essentially, I'm saying that the FS should not get an engine nerf because it will ruin the chassis for me and most other speed fans. Fix hit reg and quirks first!

Folks just need to stop chasing balance nirvana and canon. The former is impossible to attain while the latter is impossible to maintain in a video game setting.

[Alienized]

Nightmare1, on 08 April 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Every video game in existence has a meta and has components, characters, and weapons that fit niche roles better than others. You'll never be able to prevent that. Like I said, if you nerf one feature of the game, something else will take its place in a never-ending cycle. It's better to just accept that some things will be better than others, fix obvious problems (like hit reg), and move on to better things.

Frankly, if the FS got a major speed nerf, I would use it considerably less. I don't run Lights very often, but when I do, I do it because of the high speeds. It's fun to go zipping around. That's one reason why I was a bit disappointed with the Panther. It's slow which makes it less fun to pilot. It's also why the Locust is my favorite Light. It doesn't have much firepower, but it's so fun to pilot! Essentially, I'm saying that the FS should not get an engine nerf because it will ruin the chassis for me and most other speed fans. Fix hit reg and quirks first!

Folks just need to stop chasing balance nirvana and canon. The former is impossible to attain while the latter is impossible to maintain in a video game setting.

the panther is totally balanced. its not superfast, has a long range harassing role and therefore it doesnt need much speed. it has JJ that make it more mobile.

thats what the video kids have to learn.
this is not about speed. if you want speed use locust, commandos and spiders.

i would not be surprised that alot of people would use the currently completely broken firestarter alot less.
all that video gamers without a certain sense for overall balance and fixing seek are OP meta mechs that are easy to play.
in before the FS9 crap that happened there was a jenner. it was fast, had good firepower but had one massive problem: the center hitbox.
the firestarter does not have this and made the Jenner now even more rare than any other light. no you dont want balance, you just want your toy untouched.

that is sad.


i got another option for fixing firestarters:

fixed flamers and machine guns like some clan mechs.
because thats what firestarters where iconic for.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Firestarters have 8 weapon hard points. That contributes toward their dominance of the Lights. Give the other Lights the same chance to perform, and you'll see changes in the Mechs that are deployed...

I, for one, do not see why Commandos get only 4 weapons and no jets while fire starters get massive quantities of weapons and jets.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 April 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Alienized, on 08 April 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

the panther is totally balanced. its not superfast, has a long range harassing role and therefore it doesnt need much speed. it has JJ that make it more mobile.

thats what the video kids have to learn.
this is not about speed. if you want speed use locust, commandos and spiders.

i would not be surprised that alot of people would use the currently completely broken firestarter alot less.
all that video gamers without a certain sense for overall balance and fixing seek are OP meta mechs that are easy to play.
in before the FS9 crap that happened there was a jenner. it was fast, had good firepower but had one massive problem: the center hitbox.
the firestarter does not have this and made the Jenner now even more rare than any other light. no you dont want balance, you just want your toy untouched.

that is sad.


i got another option for fixing firestarters:

fixed flamers and machine guns like some clan mechs.
because thats what firestarters where iconic for.

I'm a casual gamer who doesn't do the metas or hardcore game modes. When I drop in a Mech, I'm doing it for kicks. That's why I say don't nerf the FS speed; it's good as it is. Fix the other problems first. That's the simpler and smarter solution anyways.

As for speed, I do use Locusts and Commandos and Spiders. They're my favorites. I run a Firestarter for serious matches such as my Unit's in-house tournament last weekend where the only Mechs allowed were Lights. Overall though, I definitely use Locusts far more often for the "fun" aspect.

All I'm saying is that the hit reg, hitboxes, and quirks should be checked first before administering speed nerfs. That's sensible, especially considering the known problems they currently have. You don't fix a problem by misapplying the wrong solution.

I don't see the Jenner as a rare Mech. I actually see it fairly often - a good Jenner pilot is quite scary. We even have two of them in my Unit. I'd feel nervous about taking my FS up against them.

Fixed weapons are stupid. It limits the variability you have and reduces the amount of fun. Half the entertainment value of this game is tearing down and rebuilding your Mechs in the lab. Besides, Flamers are broken and MGs are underpowered. You would have the FS go from the top of the stack straight to the bottom; where's your purported balance then?

[Alienized]

the only jenner you see is the oxide.
im not a hardcore gamer as well. i am more a casual gamer with knowledge about this whole topic.
thats the difference.

fixing the hitreg issues are not something that can be done fast and its the worst problem we currently have with such mechs.
reducing its speed will not making it a bad mech neither will it be worthless. you just have to adapt a little bit and go with the team. fly around the mediums and heavies and you will have your opportunities the same way as you have them now.

again, this is nothing about you or my playstyle, its about the game balance and this is obviously broken. we need simple and fast solutions to fix this.

there is one thing with mechs that are rare and currently used under the radar: the pilots using them are lethal in those mechs because they know each little thing about them.


lets talk about MG's and flamers:

mg's are spread critseekers for unarmored parts. i have used MGs on some mechs and they got me some kills. im not denying it i plan to rebuild my trebuchet 7k that had 2 MG's and brawl with it again. also i loved that trial spider with one large laser and 4 mg. oooh the joy.

flamers? you ever met a mech with 3 or 4 of them? if not let me tell you something: once you are in flamer range you are overheated and you wont see anything anymore .

those 2 weapons are not meant to do damage, they are tactical weapons in brawls.
yeah brawls..... when all that people care is beating the clans in their own department: ranged fighting.
impossibruuuu.....

[LordKnightFandragon]

LOL, I find it absolutely hilarious that at point blank, less then 20m from a slow moving Nova, I still need lead to hit his CT.....1200ms, I still need to lead him, moving less then 20kph....

Yeah, the quirks for the WHK make PPCs borderline useless/useable, but far from a truly viable build or good weapon. Lets hope the next patch date sees a few changes to the WHK Quirks that further improves velocity and swaps that arm armor and ST armor around....1300ms would be a good spot for PPCs to be. The lead would be alot less at mid range, and might even work somewhat at long range. 1200 is a nice boost, but still short. Damage is still kinda meh overall...had to unload like 8 PPCs into a heavily damaged nova before he ripped off my leg, back armor, most of my CT and finally he died....

I still hold out hope for a 13 dmg CERPPC, they can keep the 1/1, give it 15 heat, 1200 base velocity, quirks to 1300...

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 08 April 2015 - 12:27 PM.

[Duckpool]

can only agree with LordKnightFandragon there about CERPPCs. Though the change to the WHK prime to borderline useablility does at least rescue it from complete obscurity at the back of my mechlab to something quite fun (at least in open play)

[Kain Demos]

Still have not lost an arm in a WHK and probably never will now with these quirks.

Why they got all the armor/structure and not the problematic STs is my main question. Pretty happy with everything else.

Edited by Kain Thul, 08 April 2015 - 03:41 PM.

[Kuritaclan]

No quirk will make a SMN a good clan mech in its weight class. Simple fact it has with full armor 2t less to spend for loadout than then the 5t lesser HBR, which have better loacted Hardpoints and more of them in quantity + a ecm what is better than some lackluster JJs and it has 5t lesser tonnes to spend in weapons compared to a timber with more armor and more/diverse Hardpoints also euqiping JJs. Plz stop messing around with quirks in first place, when the true problem lay within the mechlabs outfit rules you gave the clan mechs.

When i see this 4% Heatquirk it shakes my head, since this gap could also be closed by DHs, what would be their job, if you could had have the tonnage to afford them.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 08 April 2015 - 04:16 PM.

[InspectorG]

Mike Forst, on 08 April 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

I wish for a lot of things and do submit feature requests. They take time to implement though.

i appreciate the work and think these Clan quirks are generally headed in the right direction.

But,

why does the Summoner keep getting shafted? Currently it is nerfed compared to the generic quirks it had originally.


LBX and Missile spread quirks seem interesting. Should LBX get 'tight' enough it may become viable.

But ERPPC range seems a little wasted without the velocity to make it hit at extreme range and the cooldown WITHOUT heat buff is just making a bad weapon worse.

AMS? ill ever only consider using it if it has a noticeable difference shooting down SRMs.

MG RoF? Interesting but MGs arent even worthwhile unless you boat about 6 of them. Summoner(stock) carries 2...
So, x3 RoF to make them decent?

NARC duration and maybe a Signal boost(missile bonus) might be interesting but again, NARC is pretty periphery.

Im not asking for the Summoner to be OP, just viable and maybe the Run'n'Gun Clan heavy specialist.

[Summon3r]

InspectorG, on 08 April 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

i appreciate the work and think these Clan quirks are generally headed in the right direction.

But,

why does the Summoner keep getting shafted? Currently it is nerfed compared to the generic quirks it had originally.


LBX and Missile spread quirks seem interesting. Should LBX get 'tight' enough it may become viable.

But ERPPC range seems a little wasted without the velocity to make it hit at extreme range and the cooldown WITHOUT heat buff is just making a bad weapon worse.

AMS? ill ever only consider using it if it has a noticeable difference shooting down SRMs.

MG RoF? Interesting but MGs arent even worthwhile unless you boat about 6 of them. Summoner(stock) carries 2...
So, x3 RoF to make them decent?

NARC duration and maybe a Signal boost(missile bonus) might be interesting but again, NARC is pretty periphery.

Im not asking for the Summoner to be OP, just viable and maybe the Run'n'Gun Clan heavy specialist.

+1 ... agree on every point and then some.... honestly the CN9-D has a 40% lbx10 cooldown and you rarely ever see one on the field what makes you think 10% ballistic cooldown will do anything? without significant heat reduction and cooldown quirks this mech is sadly shelved and it shouldnt be it should actually be an exceptional heavy mech

[LordKnightFandragon]

Duckpool, on 08 April 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

can only agree with LordKnightFandragon there about CERPPCs. Though the change to the WHK prime to borderline useablility does at least rescue it from complete obscurity at the back of my mechlab to something quite fun (at least in open play)

It would be alot more fun if the PPC was a weapon that could be taken atleast moderately seriously, instead of something you see and think "oh lol, hes a fool for taking those"