329 replies to this topic

[Escef]

meteorol, on 07 April 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

There is a reason lightweight compdecks are often full of streaks.

Said reason is neither that compplayers can't aim, nor that streaks suck and they use them for the giggles.




See min. 46 in this video for a good example of EmP totally obliterating 228 with streakscrows.

So, the problem is... massed firepower? Well, yeah, when you have people ganging up on opponents that happens. They would be dropping people even faster if their team was mostly YLWs because of AC20's not being sandblasters. Note that when they jump into QueensBlade's cockpit that he's tanking a lot of shots before he goes down.

Grisbane, on 07 April 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

if streaks worked properly as they did in lore we wouldn't have issues with them.. streaks home in by being fired like a dumb SRM 1 missile at a time, each round electronically corrected in trajectory to increase the chance of impact. if Streaks worked CORRECTLY.. a streak srm6 would usually only impact 3 or 4 rounds out of the full spread.. on a moderately paced target.. a 150 kph locust would only get hit by MAYBE 1 or 2 of the rockets.

What? Streaks in lore did not fire without a lock-on, and when fired they all hit. Where the hell are you getting your information from?

[meteorol]

Escef, on 07 April 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

They would be dropping people even faster if their team was mostly YLWs because of AC20's

Can't wait for the day any comp team on this planets drops with 6 YLWs. Sadly, i'll probably have to wait forever.

[EvilCow]

CapperDeluxe, on 07 April 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

MWLL definitely had the best streaks, I would really like MWO to take after them.

Agreed, limited turn rate, a competent light pilot could avoid them, effective also on heavier classes. You had to fire them at the right moment or miss.

[Darian DelFord]

Once again, 2 alphas and a light is toast so in 6-9 seconds a light is removed from play. Even with PPFLD unless you hit a weak armor spot a light can atleast try to doge and spread, Streaks can not be. Streak boats negate the slight agility advantage that lights have, and remember that crows can push 107 KPH which is no joke

[Kotzi]

Grisbane, on 07 April 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

randall bills, who i have gotten to know from visiting his book store in everett washington... you know, the guy who wrote the core rulebook for TT. and i never said they didn't fire without lockon, i said that is how they are supposed to track a target once fired. streaks wre never meant to be 100% accurate

No they are not. Look at your stats. Anyone having 100% with streaks?

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 07 April 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

Streaks aren't in a weird spot because of lore, they're in a weird spot because PGI felt the need to make them into an "always hit" RNG-targeting system.

This has made them into an "all or nothing" binary weapon that either wreck people in some situations or suck badly in others. There's not much in-between.

It's kinda hard to balance a gun that operates on pendulum-swings from one extreme to the other, so their performance has to be made a lot more consistent so we can measure their overall effectiveness. The best way to do this is to outright redo their whole targeting system so that they take the player's aim into account somehow (i.e. home in on the aimed location) and don't rely on lucky dicerolls to get hits. After that, we can adjust any other stats like range/cooldown/heat/ammo etc. until they get put in a good place.

But of course, that won't happen. Binary Streaks are one of the Legacy Features™ of MWO by this point.

Just to be clear I dislike their implementation and think there is tons of room for improvement.

However if PGI read this:



Overview

Originally developed in 2647, the Streak SRM Launcher is relatively similar to the standard SRM launcher but linked to a unique Targa-7 fire control system. This system is designed to guarantee a hit against any target onto which the pilot can get a lock, a special feature of this system preventing the weapon from firing at a target when there is no lock-on, saving ammunition by preventing shots that would miss.
Description

Unlike a standard SRM whose shotgun effect may result in some misses and some hits, Streak guidance gives the lighter launchers the effective average firepower of the heavier and more wasteful SRM systems, but with considerably less variation in damage effects. The only disadvantages are that Streak launchers are incompatible with other missile target acquisition technologies such as the Artemis IV FCS and Narc Missile Beacon, their specialized ammunition is much more expensive, and some users are willing to accept partial hits rather than not be able to fire on demand.




Well...unfortunately, that's pretty much what ours do.


They should have been more creative, they should have redesigned them when clans came - but I do see how we ended up with what we have now.

[Jetfire]

A real heat scale would fix this. The streaks are hot and big CD and movement penalties to running hot would counter the crow by letting lights run away.

[Escef]

Grisbane, on 07 April 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

randall bills, who i have gotten to know from visiting his book store in everett washington... you know, the guy who wrote the core rulebook for TT. and i never said they didn't fire without lockon, i said that is how they are supposed to track a target once fired. streaks were never meant to be 100% accurate

Tell that to Technical Readout 2750, Technical Readout 3050, and literally EVERY Battletech core rulebook ever printed.

Seriously, just show me one, so much as one, table top Battletech project that treats Streaks differently.

Edited by Escef, 07 April 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[Corbon Zackery]

Clan streaks are suffering from the same bug that IS streak 2 had were 90% of the missiles impact the CT once that bug is squashed people will stop using the streak crow.


Its power gamers taking advantage of bug and exploiting it until it gets fixed. Its also over kill since you can achieve the same results using clan streak 2 launchers.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8ceb96ecaa34ed4

If you look at a streak crow build its 69% heat efficient so even with ghost heat it can shoot 2 to 3 shots of 60 damage 90% is hitting your ct.

So its important to go for a leg before it gets to 360meters once it close to kill range it should be vaporized by mass fire.

The max damage it can output in this configuration is 780 damage then it has no sec. weapons.

So it just a massive exploit of a poorly designed clan system.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 07 April 2015 - 09:02 AM.

[Escef]

Darian DelFord, on 07 April 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

Once again, 2 alphas and a light is toast so in 6-9 seconds a light is removed from play. Even with PPFLD unless you hit a weak armor spot a light can atleast try to doge and spread, Streaks can not be. Streak boats negate the slight agility advantage that lights have, and remember that crows can push 107 KPH which is no joke

And at the low, low cost of 15 to 18 tons of launchers, active probe, limited ammo, massive heat, and the risk of getting hard countered by 2 mechs with ECM!

[Ultimax]

Escef, on 07 April 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

And at the low, low cost of 15 to 18 tons of launchers, active probe, limited ammo, massive heat, and the risk of getting hard countered by 2 mechs with ECM!

And zero skill required in usage.


I know you love defending this skill-zero weapon, but really they are badly designed and they hammer what is already the weakest weight class in the entire game the hardest.


I spent 30 tons on my Dual Gauss build, should I be able to one-shot or two-shot kill completely fresh, moving mechs with zero aiming required?


No, because that is ridiculous.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 07 April 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Rhent, on 07 April 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

[Redacted]

yeah and? reality is it cna survive this, but not if you turn your side to it, which is most lights pilots mistake vs streaks, because if you twist, from the side its more Pinpoint like.
Adjust your behavior and many problems in MWO get solved magically.

Rhent, on 07 April 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

[Redacted]

+1 fo transformers soundtrack xD

[Rhent]

Lily from animove, on 07 April 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

yeah and? reality is it cna survive this, but not if you turn your side to it, which is most lights pilots mistake vs streaks, because if you twist, from the side its more Pinpoint like.
Adjust your behavior and many problems in MWO get solved magically.



+1 fo transformers soundtrack xD

Lily, a light mech vs a 50T+ streakbot = loss.

Most lights will run:
ML/MPL/SL/SPL and in some occasions SRM's. To fire, they need to get within range of the streakbot and they will take damage. Assuming both mechs are at 100% health, the light is going to lose. If the light is using LL/ERLL/PPC then they most likely will win, assuming the Streakbot doesn't have a long range weapon as backup.

Even then, all the Streakbot has to do is move to terrain in which the light mech can't fire long range and has to close and again the light mech will lose. There is nothing wrong with streakbots being a counter to light mechs, they generally are worthless builds in the grand scheme of things outside of lights.

[Escef]

meteorol, on 07 April 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

Can't wait for the day any comp team on this planets drops with 6 YLWs. Sadly, i'll probably have to wait forever.

If you ever hear of it happening, let me know. I'd love to see the footage.

[Darian DelFord]

Escef, on 07 April 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

And at the low, low cost of 15 to 18 tons of launchers, active probe, limited ammo, massive heat, and the risk of getting hard countered by 2 mechs with ECM!

You have a few if's in there trying to weight your argument

[Ragnahawk]

Okay so if I take the trial hunchback 4P, theoretically your are telling me I have a completely legit chance at murdering that streak 6 crow..................................... with 270 Range. Would you like to test this out or do you just want to agree with me?

[Darian DelFord]

Lily from animove, on 07 April 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

yeah and? reality is it cna survive this, but not if you turn your side to it, which is most lights pilots mistake vs streaks, because if you twist, from the side its more Pinpoint like.
Adjust your behavior and many problems in MWO get solved magically.

Your still missing the point, 2 alphas and the light is toast no matter how you face it, worse on some lights vs others. As stated above the RNG places hit locations and how many missiles hit that location. Rarely if ever does it assign them evenly.

[Adiuvo]

Escef, on 07 April 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

So, the problem is... massed firepower? Well, yeah, when you have people ganging up on opponents that happens. They would be dropping people even faster if their team was mostly YLWs because of AC20's not being sandblasters. Note that when they jump into QueensBlade's cockpit that he's tanking a lot of shots before he goes down.

Nope. AC20s aren't guaranteed damage nor are the alphas high enough to immediately drop people compared to streaks.

As for Queenblade, he's taking shots of 3 streaks then 2 streaks, not full alphas.

Edited by Adiuvo, 07 April 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 07 April 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Just to be clear I dislike their implementation and think there is tons of room for improvement.

However if PGI read this:



Overview

Originally developed in 2647, the Streak SRM Launcher is relatively similar to the standard SRM launcher but linked to a unique Targa-7 fire control system. This system is designed to guarantee a hit against any target onto which the pilot can get a lock, a special feature of this system preventing the weapon from firing at a target when there is no lock-on, saving ammunition by preventing shots that would miss.
Description

Unlike a standard SRM whose shotgun effect may result in some misses and some hits, Streak guidance gives the lighter launchers the effective average firepower of the heavier and more wasteful SRM systems, but with considerably less variation in damage effects. The only disadvantages are that Streak launchers are incompatible with other missile target acquisition technologies such as the Artemis IV FCS and Narc Missile Beacon, their specialized ammunition is much more expensive, and some users are willing to accept partial hits rather than not be able to fire on demand.




Well...unfortunately, that's pretty much what ours do.


They should have been more creative, they should have redesigned them when clans came - but I do see how we ended up with what we have now.

It's a misinterpretation. PGI believes that Tabletop Streaks hit the target every single time they were fired. This is false. You were NOT guaranteed to hit each time you pressed the fire button. What happened is that the missiles knew if they would hit or miss, and if they missed they would simply choose not to fire.

They hit their target just as often as regular SRMs (well, actually less often because partial salvos didn't fire), the difference is that they simply didn't use ammo or heat when they were expected to miss. They did not hit the target more frequently than regular SRMs.

[Ragnahawk]

William Ward, on 07 April 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

I only have one thing to say about this, and any topic like this. Whine, complain, and moan all you like. Keep nerfing the clan mechs. We will continue on and find some other way to wipe the floor with your face, with what we are given. And when all is said and done, you will always say clans are OP, so keep on comming freebirth. If you have the balls.

If you had guts you'd shoot 4 guass at me, not run up to me guarenteed 2 shot me and walk away unscathed.

Edited by F8Sealed, 07 April 2015 - 09:46 AM.