169 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

cSand, on 07 April 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

what's funnier is that there are actually people, out there, playing this very game, who don't need easy mode mechs to succeed. Those same people pilot Awesome, Vindies, etc etc to great effect. THose very same people tend not to ***** and moan too much about anything being OP

In the land of minmax meta fest though, there will always be only a handful of mechs used. Cause outside the box thinking is just too... ashdjahdadads

what was I talking about again?

You talk about no easy mode mechs, and list the strongest quirked mechs for PPCs...

Oxymoron a bit strong there...

[Mcgral18]

Lord0fHats, on 13 April 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

Seriously. Can we at least learn the game mechanics? The only thing in MWO that boosts dissipation is a 7.5% boost available to every mech in the skill trees. Heat sinks do not boost dissipation. All they do is give a bigger buffer. Having a buffer bigger than is needed to support your guns is wasted weight.

0.14 heat dissipated per second, times 1.15 with doubled basics.

Edited by Mcgral18, 13 April 2015 - 09:29 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

HlynkaCG, on 13 April 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

I actually agree with you. Which is why I maintain that 3 65 damage alpha-strikes in a 10 second period is superior to 2 54 damage strikes.

Firstly 270m range spreading SRMs with slow projectiles cannot be directly compared with a 600m pinpoint hitscan laser alpha - im not saying SRM stalkers are bad per se (though brawling in something with STs that big is.. dubious) but their use is entirely different, and secondly, the 6LL stalker doesnt alpha often. It fires 3LLs followed by 3LLs 0.5s later - and it can do that 3 times in 10 seconds easily without overheating.

[HlynkaCG]

Widowmaker1981, on 13 April 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

Firstly 270m range spreading SRMs with slow projectiles cannot be directly compared with a 600m pinpoint hitscan laser alpha - im not saying SRM stalkers are bad per se (though brawling in something with STs that big is.. dubious) but their use is entirely different, and secondly, the 6LL stalker doesnt alpha often. It fires 3LLs followed by 3LLs 0.5s later - and it can do that 3 times in 10 seconds easily without overheating.

You're missing the fact that the build was posted in response to the assertion that "only trolls use standard structure".

[Yokaiko]

HlynkaCG, on 13 April 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

You're missing the fact that the build was posted in response to the assertion that "only trolls use standard structure".

No really, those were pretty terrible builds.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Gyrok, on 13 April 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

You talk about no easy mode mechs, and list the strongest quirked mechs for PPCs...

Oxymoron a bit strong there...

Wait wait wait. Are you actually suggesting that the Vindicator and Awesome are easy mode mechs?


Really?

[HlynkaCG]

Yokaiko, on 13 April 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

No really, those were pretty terrible builds.

I pulled the Second SRM build of Meta-mechs so if it's bad at least its meta-bad.

[Ursh]

In my Summoners, if I had a nickle for every time I wanted to scream at the screen because 5 tons of jump jets couldn't give me enough vertical to get over a relatively tiny hill or building, I'd have a couple of dollars worth of nickles.

[Widowmaker1981]

HlynkaCG, on 13 April 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

You're missing the fact that the build was posted in response to the assertion that "only trolls use standard structure".

There are very, very few actual real builds on IS side that dont use Endo steel - basically only specific energy boating assaults with XL engines tbh. ES is very nearly a no brainer for any IS build due to the fact that DHS dont fit in legs or CT so you have 7 slots out of 14 that go in areas where you couldnt fit a heatsink anyway - at most ES costs you the space for 2 DHS, and in most of my builds i could only fit 1 more DHS if i removed endo - which is not worth the reduced tonnage efficiency.
The ONLY time i have ever not used ES is when running XL Highlanders. (pretty much every other mech is better off getting ES and spending the tonnage on more engine, HGN cant because of the low engine cap, and stalker should NEVER be XL)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 13 April 2015 - 11:43 PM.

[charov]

bad arcade kitty, on 13 April 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

i just checked with a heat simulator and 4ll 2ml 22 dhs has a bit higher dps in 30 seconds and is safer

Correct but you won't care much about the DPS in 6xLL Stalker. Also, ML and LL have different optimal ranges.
Peeking out, firing your lasers in quick sequence, fall back in cover and cooldown and, by doing so, also avoid returning fire is usually much better than staying in the open firing your lasers.
DPS is important for a brawler because it can't fall back and cool down easily. In a mid-to-long range mech with high-mounted hardpoints, alpha (or still be able to fire all your weapons quickly) is usually more important.

Quirks are good imo, still have led to the reign of boats. A solution could be limiting the amount of quirked weapons. For instance, quirks could work if #Weap<X. So, you can get a benefit from quirks only if you mount less than 4xLL or 6x ER ML or whatever else.
I know it sounds a bit complicated but I'd love to see more diversity and less boats in this game (btw, if the limit is very high you can favourite builds, following the stock loadout for example).

[anonymous161]

Summoner is the most worthless clan mech I haven't used it since they first released it.

Only inner sphere mechs can pop out and fire with their lasers and do full damage while ours takes twice as long to do the damage. They need to put the clan nerf back to where it was to make them good again.

[charov]

Darth Bane001, on 13 April 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

Summoner is the most worthless clan mech I haven't used it since they first released it.

Only inner sphere mechs can pop out and fire with their lasers and do full damage while ours takes twice as long to do the damage. They need to put the clan nerf back to where it was to make them good again.

The summoner has an exceptional high-mounted ballistic, perfect for the Gauss. Also, the GR runs very cool, so the Summoner can support 4x ER ML without worrying too about the heat. It's also fast and agile. I agree it's not the best mech ever, especially due to the poor implementation of the JJ (I'm F worried about the Executioner ) but still, I don't get why a lot of people complains so much. And the same goes for the Gargoyle. I played it a lot before the quirks and it's not as bad as many players say.
My suspicious is that some guys don't try enough to squeeze the best out of their mechs. Complaining is easier, isn't it?


**RANT MODE=1**
During this challenge I grouped with random players mostly. Every time I told them to stay together and play as a team and also how this challenge was really easy. It's almost impossible to do less than 30pts per match unless you are very unlucky and get headshotted. They replied that it wasn't true, that the challenge is actually difficult. I was sceptical, and that's the result:

Spoiler

How is that possible? Why some players are so bad? Some of those later complained about their mechs. It's not your mech that sucks, it's you dammit!

Btw, the same point applies to the IS mechs and players. Some of them are really embarrassing, they don't even understand the huge advantage of the reduced beam time! &lt;_&lt;

TL;DR: there are very good mechs and less good mechs but before complaining, let's make sure that the problem is not the player.
**RANT MODE=0**

[mogs01gt]

red devil2, on 14 April 2015 - 02:11 AM, said:

The summoner has an exceptional high-mounted ballistic, perfect for the Gauss. Also, the GR runs very cool, so the Summoner can support 4x ER ML without worrying too about the heat. It's also fast and agile. I agree it's not the best mech ever, especially due to the poor implementation of the JJ (I'm F worried about the Executioner ) but still, I don't get why a lot of people complains so much. And the same goes for the Gargoyle. I played it a lot before the quirks and it's not as bad as many players say.
My suspicious is that some guys don't try enough to squeeze the best out of their mechs. Complaining is easier, isn't it?

Sounds like you have never played the Summoner. The torso mounted hardpoint sounds good on paper until you realize PGI ****** the Summoner with a torso that cant look up or down. Also, you either have to expose your entire RT or the top third of the mech if you want to hill hump. Lets not forget if you are able to actually shoot someone above or below you with your torso mounted weapon, your arms are useless since the distance from the cockpit to the arms is asinine.

but dont worry it has JJ's to help aim your RT ballistics weapon.....Its not like anyone shoots at flying heavies...

[charov]

mogs01gt, on 14 April 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

Sounds like you have never played the Summoner. The torso mounted hardpoint sounds good on paper until you realize PGI ****** the Summoner with a torso that cant look up or down. Also, you either have to expose your entire RT or the top third of the mech if you want to hill hump. Lets not forget if you are able to actually shoot someone above or below you with your torso mounted weapon, your arms are useless since the distance from the cockpit to the arms is asinine.


but dont worry it has JJ's to help aim your RT ballistics weapon.....Its not like anyone shoots at flying heavies...

I have played it and also acceptable results with it. Last 15 matches: KDR 3.50, 21 kills. Build GR+4xML.

You say that torso hardpoint is useless, well, maneuver in order to make it not so useless, where's the problem? If the mech has a limit, bypass it by playing in a different manner.

Spoiler

The GR is right under your head, you don't need to expose nothing but a really small part of the mech. Usually you can peek with 2x ER ML and the Gauss without any problem nor fearing the return fire. The current implementation of JJ is bad, but this mech still works as a jump sniper, here and there.
It's the best way to play a summoner? Nope. But it works and it's also fairly efficient. Or you can keep complaining, up to you.

[C E Dwyer]

Because humanity and PGI, hate the clans but they lurv the cash power creep brings

[Gyrok]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 13 April 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

Wait wait wait. Are you actually suggesting that the Vindicator and Awesome are easy mode mechs?


Really?

Vindicator is strong for a jump sniping medium if you can keep your distance, and the Awesome is far better than many people give it credit for. In fact, at this moment, I would say the PPC boat Awesomes are better than their other 80T counterparts by a fair margin.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Gyrok, on 14 April 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:

Vindicator is strong for a jump sniping medium if you can keep your distance, and the Awesome is far better than many people give it credit for. In fact, at this moment, I would say the PPC boat Awesomes are better than their other 80T counterparts by a fair margin.

There is a stark difference between 'serviceable' and 'easy mode'. Unless your definition of easy mode is extremely broad, in which case you would have little room to complain about the performance of any mech, save those like the Myst Lynx.



Also Zeus > Awesome.
And any IS Medium > Vindicator, regardless of how you play it. (Excepting maybe some versions of the Trebuchets)

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 14 April 2015 - 06:45 AM.

[mogs01gt]

red devil2, on 14 April 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

I have played it and also acceptable results with it. Last 15 matches: KDR 3.50, 21 kills. Build GR+4xML.

You say that torso hardpoint is useless, well, maneuver in order to make it not so useless, where's the problem? If the mech has a limit, bypass it by playing in a different manner.

Spoiler

The GR is right under your head, you don't need to expose nothing but a really small part of the mech. Usually you can peek with 2x ER ML and the Gauss without any problem nor fearing the return fire. The current implementation of JJ is bad, but this mech still works as a jump sniper, here and there.
It's the best way to play a summoner? Nope. But it works and it's also fairly efficient. Or you can keep complaining, up to you.

You are missing the point. The mech has huge downfalls compared to a mech that is only 5t heavier and has JJ's. Every build you can run on the Summoner can be ran on the TBR but the TBR does it better.

The "stop complaing" people are simply annoying. The Summoner is an iconic mech that is vastly inferior to the TBR. Balancing is a huge problem that PGI will never attempt to resolve.

[Widowmaker1981]

mogs01gt, on 14 April 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

You are missing the point. The mech has huge downfalls compared to a mech that is only 5t heavier and has JJ's. Every build you can run on the Summoner can be ran on the TBR but the TBR does it better.

The "stop complaing" people are simply annoying. The Summoner is an iconic mech that is vastly inferior to the TBR. Balancing is a huge problem that PGI will never attempt to resolve.

The Summoner is largely unfixable, because wasting 5-6 tons on not having endo steel and equipping too many jumpjets is not something a 70 tonner with a massive engine can do while still being effective in this game, unless it has some kind of really good hardpoint locations. which it doesnt and never will.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Widowmaker1981, on 14 April 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

The Summoner is largely unfixable, because wasting 5-6 tons on not having endo steel and equipping too many jumpjets is not something a 70 tonner with a massive engine can do while still being effective in this game, unless it has some kind of really good hardpoint locations. which it doesnt and never will.

#freeendo