169 replies to this topic

[Stealth Fox]

Eider, on 11 April 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Just that compared to timbergods and crowlords they are 'bad'. I mean those extra long range clan weapons must be totally useless!

They are when the IS have a similar rage, faster recycle, less heat, shorter burn time, (which means more damage in the long run) Higher weapon points for ridge peaking, Front load damage with ACs that can be fired... franky like they should be. (I am become Dragon, Destroyer of Side Torsos) and well.. you know.. all the other stuff you silly billies like to ignore.

Mcgral18, on 11 April 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

Seems like something that they would of dun had Macross gotten ahold of it. Dat Macross Missile Massacre

Edited by Seph MacLeod, 11 April 2015 - 08:05 PM.

[Yokaiko]

HlynkaCG, on 11 April 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9df604588fd0340

Who taught you to Atlas?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...41e61810ad41aea

All that firepower is nothing if you can't get it into position.


In fact back in the day that was slow, you crammed the 360 in and stripped it because there weren't a pack of mechs that could strip a 100 tonners leg in two vollies.

My comp build was likely more like this back in the pre-12 man days http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d2b213b4702d889

Edited by Yokaiko, 11 April 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 11 April 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

That is... really dumb looking, lol.

STs, target-able from orbit.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 11 April 2015 - 08:45 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Ultimatum X, on 11 April 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

That is... really dumb looking, lol.

STs, target-able from orbit.

That is the intention.

Copy pasted, with the terrible space use most of the dynamic hardpoints use.
Only two torso hardpoints are actually there, the LT Energy and the single LT missile pod.


Would you prefer the Easter bunny?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Summon3r, on 11 April 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Yea I'm at a loss on the lack of progress on making the summoner chassis remotely respectable and especially the prime. As I've said before the cn9-d gets 40% lbx10 cool down so why not here it's a bloody 3 hard point mech until this mech can deliver more fire down range it is junked. Which is to bad as i an beyond bored of tbr.

YEah, if PGI cant quirk the CERPPC dmg, but doesnt want to buff it to a 15/15 then they should make like 3 different variants of it for each of the Adder, Hellbringer, Warhawk and Summoner Primes

For the Summoner Prime, a 15/15, 1250ms, 4.5s CD
for the Warhawk Prime: 13/15, 1250ms, 4.25s CD
Adder Prime: 13/15, 1320ms, 4s CD
Hellbringer Prime: 12/15, 1250ms, 4s CD.

Or simply buff the CERPPC for all Clan mechs to 13/15, 4.25s, 1150ms, then quirk the velocity on a few.

[HlynkaCG]

Yokaiko, on 11 April 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

All that firepower is nothing if you can't get it into position.

All that firepower is nothing if you can't maintain it. Besides, you don't need to hurry when you know where you are going.


You asked for a Standard structure build that wasn't a troll build and Atlas DDC was the first that came to mind. However, if that's just not cheesy enough for you, you can always try piloting a Stalker.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 11 April 2015 - 08:58 PM.

[Yokaiko]

HlynkaCG, on 11 April 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

All that firepower is nothing if you can't maintain it. Besides, you don't need to hurry when you know where you are going.


You asked for a Standard structure build that wasn't a troll build and Atlas DDC was the first that came to mind, However, if that's just not cheesy enough for you, you can always try piloting a Stalker.

I own about 6 of them and not one has LRMs, what of it?

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 11 April 2015 - 08:47 PM, said:

That is the intention.

Copy pasted, with the terrible space use most of the dynamic hardpoints use.
Only two torso hardpoints are actually there, the LT Energy and the single LT missile pod.


Would you prefer the Easter bunny?

It would cool if it were like the Zeus-6T RA.

[HlynkaCG]

Yokaiko, on 11 April 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

I own about 6 of them and not one has LRMs, what of it?

And all of them have endo? Who taught you to Stalk?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4bac9a645df7009

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eba3dc8ebdcc738

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a86597918090c09

[Yokaiko]

HlynkaCG, on 11 April 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

And all of them have endo? Who taught you to Stalk?

Well lets see

HlynkaCG, on 11 April 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4bac9a645df7009

50% heat efficiency?

HlynkaCG, on 11 April 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eba3dc8ebdcc738

60%? WTF?

HlynkaCG, on 11 April 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a86597918090c09

Who taught you to build? Seriously man.

BTW

This is a -4N http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d8802ae8f7180d5

Edited by Yokaiko, 11 April 2015 - 09:31 PM.

[Deathlike]

Ultimatum X, on 11 April 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

It would cool if it were like the Zeus-6T RA.

Oh ffs @ all the missiles.

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 11 April 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

Oh ffs @ all the missiles.

It would be better than McGral's jenga tower.

[HlynkaCG]

Only 4.19 sustained DPS? How the hell are you going to lead or break a push with that? Like I said before, all that firepower is nothing if you can't maintain it, or even use it.

You said...

Yokaiko, on 11 April 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

Name one that isn't a troll build.

...and I named 4. if you think those are troll-builds I think you need to seriously revise your definition of trolling.

[Lord0fHats]

Sustained DPS is bunk in the game (it's bunk in every game...). Burst damage always wins and in this game burst = alpha. Sacrificing tonnage for more heatsinks at the expense of your ability to alpha is counter-productive.

[HlynkaCG]

Lord0fHats, on 11 April 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

Sustained DPS is bunk in the game (it's bunk in every game...). Burst damage always wins and in this game burst = alpha. Sacrificing tonnage for more heatsinks at the expense of your ability to alpha is counter-productive.

It's a trade-off

A big alpha is great and all, but kind of useless if you can only do it once without overheating or getting cored out. Otherwise the 9 ER PPC Dire Wolf would be the alpha and omega of competitive play rather than a joke build.

[Deathlike]

HlynkaCG, on 11 April 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

Only 4.19 sustained DPS? How the hell are you going to lead or break a push with that? Like I said before, all that firepower is nothing if you can't maintain it, or even use it.

If you are strictly looking @ DPS and not actual usage, you're doing it wrong.

[HlynkaCG]

Deathlike, on 12 April 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

If you are strictly looking @ DPS and not actual usage, you're doing it wrong.

Oh for *^%'s sake. If you are looking at strictly Alpha-Strike damage and not actual usage, you're doing it wrong.

HlynkaCG, on 11 April 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

It's a trade-off

A big alpha is great and all, but kind of useless if you can only do it once without overheating or getting cored out. Otherwise the 9 ER PPC Dire Wolf would be the alpha and omega of competitive play rather than a joke build.

Point being that having 6 LLs or or 9 PPCs is superflous if you don't have the cooling capacity to actually fire all of them.

An none of this has anything to do with the fact that, yes Virginia, there are "non-troll" builds that use standard structure. Or the original topic which was how to make mechs like the Summoner and Gargoyle, which have FF armor but Standard Structure more competitive.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 12 April 2015 - 01:45 AM.

[Elizander]

Lord0fHats, on 11 April 2015 - 11:02 PM, said:

Sustained DPS is bunk in the game (it's bunk in every game...). Burst damage always wins and in this game burst = alpha. Sacrificing tonnage for more heatsinks at the expense of your ability to alpha is counter-productive.

Letting your team be outgunned for 30 seconds while you cool off due to lack of heat dissipation is also counter productive.

[Yokaiko]

HlynkaCG, on 12 April 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

Oh for *^%'s sake. If you are looking at strictly Alpha-Strike damage and not actual usage, you're doing it wrong.

Point being that having 6 LLs or or 9 PPCs is superflous if you don't have the cooling capacity to actually fire all of them.

You are saying the x6 llas -4N is over gunned? Try it, its fine, three by three or in groups of two, the thing spits pain like a mother, I can't make ANY of my clan mechs compete.

HlynkaCG, on 12 April 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

An none of this has anything to do with the fact that, yes Virginia, there are "non-troll" builds that use standard structure. Or the original topic which was how to make mechs like the Summoner and Gargoyle, which have FF armor but Standard Structure more competitive.

Oh you are serious, they aren't troll builds, they are just bad.

[Lord0fHats]

HlynkaCG, on 11 April 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

It's a trade-off

It's really not. I'm not talking about cheesy "I can fire an alpha so hot it'll kill me" mechs. I'm talking about fitting so many heatsinks onto a mech that they start becoming redundant. Too many players fall into the trap of "add more heatsinks" instead of learning heat management.

Quote

Or the original topic which was how to make mechs like the Summoner and Gargoyle, which have FF armor but Standard Structure more competitive.

Give them endo instead of Ferro. Seriously. If you have to pick one of the two, why would you ever pick the one that gives less weight over the one that would give more? Upgrade the engine if you're out of crit slots. No mech ever got worse going faster. Running out of crit slots though isn't generally a problem with clan mechs. Running out of crit slots in the right places (because of hardpoint placement) sometimes is.

Quote

Letting your team be outgunned for 30 seconds while you cool off due to lack of heat dissipation is also counter productive.

Adding more heatsinks won't improve heat dissipation (be nice if they did, but they don't). Heat management is not a skill players can "add more heatskinks" their way out of. Running undergunned will not help a team win against one that knows how to fire the lazors, manage heat, and start blowing off components with high strike/alpha damage builds.