186 replies to this topic

[Jacobei]

This is a call to all "light" pilots. To those who would claim themselves a light pilot overall and the extremist that focus 90-100% of their game play around piloting light mechs (me for example).

Summary:
1. Light pilot pub chat
2. Protest info

#1 PUB. I have tried many flavor of the month light builds. My honest opinion

Spider
Kitfox
Raven

Continue to be the most 'playable' light mechs when fitted correctly. I know the Firestarter is flavor of the month right now. But it fails with over heating and weapon cool down periods.

Now in theory (on paper) many fits are better, but in practice this is just not true for combat.

“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”
― Albert Einstein

#2 PROTEST: Light pilots specialists and forum support

Protest info: Ligh pilot specialists lets protest to open more specialised roles on the CW battle field. Who hates fielding a heavy or assault poorly just to field your lights.

A. Make drop weight by group not player.
OR
B. Lower the weight minimum limit for CW to allow lighter pilots to specialise. I would also allow meds.

We make MWO all about heavies and assaults alpha striking. The true MWO world was way more focused around lights and mediums (as many here know).

The other issue is "NERF LIGHTS" threads in forums. We need to actively work together to stomp this out. Their is no over use of light mechs because they are OP... These threads are mostly made by heavy pilots that fit to alpha strike others and get upset when lights absorb this. Here is some lore in-game reasons lights absorb damage.

1. It is an easy game code to simulate the true strength of lights SPEED and SIZE. Your alpha strike was dodged because your trying to hit a target with a very small signature radius. Your PPC did not slam into 6x6 flat sheet of a heavy mech, the armor design and signature radius of the light made your large weapon less effective. *in other mech games you could not just alpha everything you needed a smaller faster cool down weapon to take out lights and tanks and jets. (Their is game lore to support it. )

2. The other factor here is speed (mentioned above). You fire an alpha at a light moving 130km and expect the same DPS effect of your weapons like when you hit a huge target that is motionless or moving 30km. Even the slightest Light movement would decrease your weapons effect - targeting ability. I shift a bit hitting 50km moving 5M to the right within the time you fire your weapon and you would not hit me with 100% damage.

Damage migration can be expected when speed, size, armor angling play a part. MWO is not coding all these individual effects but it works out in the end.

Again their is no swarm of OP lights plaguing this game. Heavier pilots with skill can easily kill a light pilot with equal skill in 1-2 alphas in MWO. Due to the nature of how MWO makes money - Heavier mechs cost more, you can expect lights to be cannon fodder.

I would like to see:

1. Alpha strike combat suppressed - more,faster negative overheating effects

2. Another class of lights that cost 7-15million and are more combat then support. - I believe this would bring Mediums back in as they are the best to combat lights (without alpha). I also believe this would make Heavies and Assaults fit to combat smaller faster targets and be more in tune with the MW experience. I know some with the "alpha win button" setup would complain but in the end it would diversify the game a bit more instead of directing people to pilot heavier and heavier mechs that smash one button at each other.

Edited by Jacobei, 11 April 2015 - 09:22 AM.

[FupDup]

Long story short, MWO inherits the Battletech situation of higher mech tonnage = better.

You used lights (or mediums) in BT when you didn't have enough spacebucks to maintain a heavy or assault. If you did have that money, you didn't really use lights or mediums, because they were less effective (assuming equal tech/optimization/etc).

Also, because you commanded a small force instead of a single unit, you could simply outnumber the enemy fatties. A Zergling might not beat a Zealot in 1 on 1, but you could have a lot more Zerglings than your enemy could have Zealots.


This doesn't apply in MWO because you only get 12 mechs at a time, so we need to make Zerglings actually as viable as Zealots. So far PGI has made more attempts at this than previous MW games, but still hasn't fully succeeded at it.

Edited by FupDup, 11 April 2015 - 09:24 AM.

[orcrist86]

pgi tried hard coded 3/3/3/3.
It sucked
everyone hated it

[Durant Carlyle]

orcrist86, on 11 April 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

pgi tried hard coded 3/3/3/3.
It sucked
everyone hated it

The game was better with quad-3 matchmaker. Especially when it matched ton-for-ton.

[TercieI]

If you don't view the FS9 (and especially the FS9-S) as one of the very best lights right now, I have a great deal of trouble taking you seriously as a light pilot.

[Koniving]

FupDup, on 11 April 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Long story short, MWO inherits the Battletech situation of higher mech tonnage = better.

What it lacks is the Battletech situation of Lower Mech value = More Mechs brought to the field.

And damn does it lack this badly.

[Johny Rocket]

I think the "please Nerf" threads can be divided into 2 catagories
10% legit problems being brought up with a demand for the wrong solution
90% some guy, with the same resources available to you, owned you and you hate it.

If PGI focused on real issues not appeasing the butt hurt we could actually get out of this 3050 rut.

[Petard]

Firestarter....FAILS?....SERIOUSLY???!!!!!!!!.....OMFG, hope they don't introduce any SUCCESSFUL lights in to the game then, jesus....h......christ, what a nightmare that would be.

Might have to take out my FS9S tomorrow, and fail at coring Atlases from behind while they are busy.

[Abisha]

dude Light mechs are already EXTREME powerful.

Lightmechs can fit like 3/4 of their tonnage into weapons.
while heavy/assaults only have like 50% to 40% of total mech tonnage at their disposable.

[Burktross]

Abisha, on 11 April 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

dude Light mechs are already EXTREME powerful.

Lightmechs can fit like 3/4 of their tonnage into weapons.
while heavy/assaults only have like 50% to 40% of total mech tonnage at their disposable.

All of that tonnage dedicated to scary medlas, small pulse and a largelas at best?
Uh oh, A raven is running a joke AC/2 build--- how powerful.

Yeah, I'll take my Hunchback when I want extreme power.

[Revis Volek]

Yea...FS9's are much better mechs then any other light at this time. I would even go as far to say that the Urbie was a little better (be it slightly niche at times) then most RVN variants. Spiders are good but not all variants are great and the KTF is a good mech but only in fire support and Heavy escort roles does it shine because its very fragile.

But like Fup and other have stated, you dont get the Zerg vs Zealot factor in this game so they can never have that aspect. Not to mention you always have to keep the casual 12 man queue in mind.

With the supposed implementation of 4v4 and other modes in CW you could see roles for lights and mediums in game modes outside what we have now where heavies and assaults weren't designed to get the objectives and jobs done in time or as discretely.

Edited by DarthRevis, 11 April 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[Abisha]

Burktross, on 11 April 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

All of that tonnage dedicated to scary medlas, small pulse and a largelas at best?
Uh oh, A raven is running a joke AC/2 build--- how powerful.

Yeah, I'll take my Hunchback when I want extreme power.

wOOt this for real? bad joke man bad joke.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...373e6f045b2cef8

that's 12 TON of weaponry available towards a Light mech enough for 6 Med Pulse Lasers....

even a CPLT have almost less tonnage available towards weaponry.

[Burktross]

Abisha, on 11 April 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

wOOt this for real? bad joke man bad joke.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...373e6f045b2cef8

that's 12 TON of weaponry available towards a Light mech enough for 6 Med Pulse Lasers....

even a CPLT have almost less tonnage available towards weaponry.

Are you serious?

Cease your inane banter and go play a locust. Come back to me on its extreme fire power.

Edit:
Deceptive, huh? Non-top engine? No one runs a light seriously without a top engine. Those armor values are worthless without speed.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2c08be245a9eb29

Seriously.
4 medium pulse.

4 medium pulse.

Even minus the engine HS, you have an extra medium laser, congratulations. No. Lights don't mount extreme firepower, they mount extreme speed and decent firepower at best.

Edited by Burktross, 11 April 2015 - 11:14 AM.

[Abisha]

Burktross, on 11 April 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Are you serious?

Cease your inane banter and go play a locust. Come back to me on its extreme fire power.

you consider that a build? really one shot with a LL and it shutdown.
and the speed of 64 KPH... lol even a direwolf go's faster.

[Burktross]

Abisha, on 11 April 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

you consider that a build? really one shot with a LL and it shutdown.
and the speed of 64 KPH... lol even a direwolf go's faster.

[Sir Wulfrick]

The problem being referred to by the OP is that under the current game reward structure light mechs, and mediums to a lesser extent, are forced in to the objective of maximising damage output and kills because to a first approximation that's the only thing that gets rewarded in MWO as it is currently. I do not agree with the OP about light mechs, and here's why:

Instead of forcing light mechs in to a max-damage paradigm, where they do not belong, there should be real incentives for light mechs to carry out their intended role: reconnaissance and scouting. Intelligence gathering. Having to, and to my mind being able to in the first instance, put 3 or 4 assault-class lasers on a Raven is insane. Light mechs should be restricted to light-class weapons. At the same time, implement the following:

0. Introduce sized hard points for all mechs.
1. Severe nerf for sensor range & sensor capabilities for heavy & assault mechs.
2. Huge buff for light mech sensor range and sensor capabilities.
3. Huge buffs in terms of CB and XP for detecting enemy mechs, detecting enemy mech loadouts etc.
4. Restrict certain consumables such as the UAV to light mechs and specific other command mechs.

Essentially, rather that having to go through ever more contortionist efforts to squeeze light mechs in to damage-dealing at the expense of all else, let's make them fit in to the role they were intended for.

This way we might just achieve ROLE WARFARE.

[Phex]

Jacobei, on 11 April 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

This is a call to all "light" pilots. To those who would claim themselves a light pilot overall and the extremist that focus 90-100% of their game play around piloting light mechs (me for example).

Summary:
1. Light pilot pub chat
2. Protest info

#1 PUB. I have tried many flavor of the month light builds. My honest opinion

Spider
Kitfox
Raven

Continue to be the most 'playable' light mechs when fitted correctly. I know the Firestarter is flavor of the month right now. But it fails with over heating and weapon cool down periods.

Now in theory (on paper) many fits are better, but in practice this is just not true for combat.

“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”
― Albert Einstein

#2 PROTEST: Light pilots specialists and forum support

Protest info: Ligh pilot specialists lets protest to open more specialised roles on the CW battle field. Who hates fielding a heavy or assault poorly just to field your lights.

A. Make drop weight by group not player.
OR
B. Lower the weight minimum limit for CW to allow lighter pilots to specialise. I would also allow meds.

We make MWO all about heavies and assaults alpha striking. The true MWO world was way more focused around lights and mediums (as many here know).

The other issue is "NERF LIGHTS" threads in forums. We need to actively work together to stomp this out. Their is no over use of light mechs because they are OP... These threads are mostly made by heavy pilots that fit to alpha strike others and get upset when lights absorb this. Here is some lore in-game reasons lights absorb damage.

1. It is an easy game code to simulate the true strength of lights SPEED and SIZE. Your alpha strike was dodged because your trying to hit a target with a very small signature radius. Your PPC did not slam into 6x6 flat sheet of a heavy mech, the armor design and signature radius of the light made your large weapon less effective. *in other mech games you could not just alpha everything you needed a smaller faster cool down weapon to take out lights and tanks and jets. (Their is game lore to support it. )

2. The other factor here is speed (mentioned above). You fire an alpha at a light moving 130km and expect the same DPS effect of your weapons like when you hit a huge target that is motionless or moving 30km. Even the slightest Light movement would decrease your weapons effect - targeting ability. I shift a bit hitting 50km moving 5M to the right within the time you fire your weapon and you would not hit me with 100% damage.

Damage migration can be expected when speed, size, armor angling play a part. MWO is not coding all these individual effects but it works out in the end.

Again their is no swarm of OP lights plaguing this game. Heavier pilots with skill can easily kill a light pilot with equal skill in 1-2 alphas in MWO. Due to the nature of how MWO makes money - Heavier mechs cost more, you can expect lights to be cannon fodder.

I would like to see:

1. Alpha strike combat suppressed - more,faster negative overheating effects

2. Another class of lights that cost 7-15million and are more combat then support. - I believe this would bring Mediums back in as they are the best to combat lights (without alpha). I also believe this would make Heavies and Assaults fit to combat smaller faster targets and be more in tune with the MW experience. I know some with the "alpha win button" setup would complain but in the end it would diversify the game a bit more instead of directing people to pilot heavier and heavier mechs that smash one button at each other.

I hate to give a claner right ,
but +1

[FupDup]

Sir Wulfrick, on 11 April 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

The problem being referred to by the OP is that under the current game reward structure light mechs, and mediums to a lesser extent, are forced in to the objective of maximising damage output and kills because to a first approximation that's the only thing that gets rewarded in MWO as it is currently. I do not agree with the OP about light mechs, and here's why:

Instead of forcing light mechs in to a max-damage paradigm, where they do not belong, there should be real incentives for light mechs to carry out their intended role: reconnaissance and scouting. Intelligence gathering. Having to, and to my mind being able to in the first instance, put 3 or 4 assault-class lasers on a Raven is insane. Light mechs should be restricted to light-class weapons. At the same time, implement the following:

0. Introduce sized hard points for all mechs.
1. Severe nerf for sensor range & sensor capabilities for heavy & assault mechs.
2. Huge buff for light mech sensor range and sensor capabilities.
3. Huge buffs in terms of CB and XP for detecting enemy mechs, detecting enemy mech loadouts etc.
4. Restrict certain consumables such as the UAV to light mechs and specific other command mechs.

Essentially, rather that having to go through ever more contortionist efforts to squeeze light mechs in to damage-dealing at the expense of all else, let's make them fit in to the role they were intended for.

This way we might just achieve ROLE WARFARE.

Call my Adder a scout mech one more time please.

There's no such thing as "light class weapons." Every single weapon in Battletech can be mounted on any mech you want if you have enough tonnage and critical slots. There are Gauss lights, PPC lights, LRM20 lights, and so on. Many lights have the role of using big guns.

[Burktross]

FupDup, on 11 April 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Call my Adder a scout mech one more time please.

There's no such thing as "light class weapons." Every single weapon in Battletech can be mounted on any mech you want if you have enough tonnage and critical slots. There are Gauss lights, PPC lights, LRM20 lights, and so on. Many lights have the role of using big guns.

The Adder is just an adorable Medium mech that knows how to work out its pound-- tons.

[Nayru]

Burktross, on 11 April 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Why no endo? Use the 3 tons to upgrade the AC/10 to a Gauss with 40 shots, or add 2 tons AC/10 ammo + DHS.

And is it me or are you missing two points of armor?