186 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

you fail because you overheat in FS9? The amount fo damage FS9 can throw out before overheating is extreme, you really shuould train that a bit more.

Edited by Lily from animove, 13 April 2015 - 01:33 AM.

[Jacobei]

Telmasa, on 13 April 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

I completely disagree.

FS9s break the game. No light mech ought to be able to dance around the entire enemy team impervious to most damage while enjoying quirks allowing godmode-levels of damage with what are normally paltry weapons.

Plus the whole jumpjet-bunnyhop-hitbox thing.


PGI has taken steps that have somewhat mitigated things, but I'm still watching firestarters go full tard mode and still walk out almost unscatched while racking up 500-700+ points of damage with disturbing regularity.

Jenners on the other hand appear to still require some difficulty in order to succeed so well - which is about where a light mech ought to be at on the performance spectrum.

So your idea of MWO is for no one to play lights. You just want them to be easy targets? We should all just stand 500-800m and alpha each others Heavy Mechs....

Meanwhile, in MWO an Atlas AS7-D with the standard 300-rated engine takes 5.3 seconds to turn 180 degrees (twist speed 34 degrees/s), and 3 seconds to torso twist the same amount (torso twist speed 60 degrees/second).

Lily from animove, on 13 April 2015 - 01:31 AM, said:

you fail because you overheat in FS9? The amount fo damage FS9 can throw out before overheating is extreme, you really shuould train that a bit more.

To be honest I never had any but most of the FS9's I kill in my kitfox or spider are due to overheating. They can't keep the fight on long enough or get frustrated and try to alpha a leg.

Edited by Jacobei, 13 April 2015 - 07:27 AM.

[Jacobei]

Terciel1976, on 12 April 2015 - 08:02 PM, said:

I think it'd be better to have a few more brought up to FS9 level rather than have more knocked down to JR7 level.

Ya the only problem with FS9 is that a lot of other lights are still very weak or more niche. My Kitfox and Spider builds equally match most FS9s in the field. BUT they require more skill to pilot equally and I can still lose making a small mistake.

Edited by Jacobei, 13 April 2015 - 07:45 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Koniving, on 11 April 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

What it lacks is the Battletech situation of Lower Mech value = More Mechs brought to the field.

And damn does it lack this badly.

And how would you rate the rather nasty MWO FS9-S versus the BT BV 551 version? How many MWO FS9's would you allow as compensation?

There is no BV in MWO and many realize that the BT BV is simply bs. So MWO is not missing BV, it left out the bad system that it was and its inclusion would make MWO tottaly impossible to "balance" based on current community wants and whines.

Build this FS9-S and see how it stands up in MWO. BV1.0 551 BV2.0 suddenly 760 No change to the load-out but for some reason a substantial BV increase. So would MWO use 551 or 760? LOL!

STOCK BT - The weapons carried are four flamers, two medium lasers, and a single small laser. An Anti-Missile System with one ton of ammo has been added to protect against missile attacks, and a Beagle Active Probe has been installed to enhance the Firestarter's scouting role.

[Nightmare1]

Either Jacobei is a troll, or he really just doesn't understand Light Mechs and how to pilot them. There are more viable chassis than just those three with the FS being perhaps the most powerful and useful right now.

It's impossible to take him seriously.

[ShinVector]

I am soooo.. Disappointed that the Panty hasn't been mention in their thread at all.

[Jacobei]

Nightmare1, on 13 April 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

Either Jacobei is a troll, or he really just doesn't understand Light Mechs and how to pilot them. There are more viable chassis than just those three with the FS being perhaps the most powerful and useful right now.

It's impossible to take him seriously.

Edited by Jacobei, 13 April 2015 - 10:24 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Jacobei, on 13 April 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

ROFL

Well, when you see a self-titled Light Mech pilot dismiss the FS, you know something's not right. ;-)

Edited by Nightmare1, 13 April 2015 - 11:47 AM.

[Deathlike]

I think the biggest problem here is understanding the mech.

From your list...

Quote

Spider
Kitfox
Raven

These aren't really top Lights, although there is something in common with them all. They all have a ECM variant (or access to ECM in the case of the Kitfox).

The Spider is just bad on many different levels in terms of offensive firepower, but the 5D is the best variant, due to hardpoints and nudged further by ECM.

The Kitfox is a Light mech in a Medium mech's body... which mostly relies on more firepower to offset its deficiencies because it simply doesn't run as fast as the traditional IS Light mech.

The Raven been quite quirked a bit, with the legs being its major weakness (due to enlarged leg hitboxes). While each variant has its own character or attributes, the 3L is still the best variant due to ECM... even if it doesn't have SRM spam of the Huggin, or superior laser vomit of the 2X.


Just based on your mech assessment, I believe your dependency is solely on the use of ECM instead of traditional methods of trying to find ways of getting close to your targets, shooting them, and then getting away when you are overheating (or at least taking your time to get into a different position while cooling down).


That is the first thing that has to be learned as a Light pilot, when your starting mechs are dependent on ECM. That is a truly hard lesson to learn, and something that has to be accomplished.

Of course, I don't see any builds mentioned in this entire thread... suggesting that there is something possibly wrong in that area...but I believe primarily it's understanding and execution that makes a non-ECM mech harder to use at times when you're used to using ECM.

[Koniving]

Almond Brown, on 13 April 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

And how would you rate the rather nasty MWO FS9-S versus the BT BV 551 version? How many MWO FS9's would you allow as compensation?

Stock? Decent.
The MWO cheese builds in BT? Akin to 6 MPL, twin AMS and 2 ML, it's got a BV of 1,320 with a 280 XL engine.

Quirked in MWO? Well the BV of the MWO style would be (by adding enough weapons to fire as many times in 10 seconds as can be done in MWO) is 2,520. That's for a non-quirked Firestarter S. Add in the MPL quirks and the BV is 2746...

The actual tonnage required to make a firestarter do what it is does in MWO? 92.5 tons and that's with Endo Steel and XL engine.

Quote

There is no BV in MWO and many realize that the BT BV is simply bs. So MWO is not missing BV, it left out the bad system that it was and its inclusion would make MWO tottaly impossible to "balance" based on current community wants and whines.

I dunno why you quoted me, I hadn't mentioned anything about Battle Value. I said "lower mech value". Is your mech ****? Bring more of them.

Only got 20 tons to your name? Well that other guy just brought 100 tons. Why not bring 4 more of yours, eh?

Quote

STOCK BT - The weapons carried are four flamers, two medium lasers, and a single small laser. An Anti-Missile System with one ton of ammo has been added to protect against missile attacks, and a Beagle Active Probe has been installed to enhance the Firestarter's scouting role.

I'm well aware of what it carries stock.

[Koniving]

The point is simply that in Battletech if you had big or good mechs, you couldn't bring much. The other person with the terrible mechs didn't just bring one. Why should it be here?

And yes I know Battle Value is one way to quantify it. Also, BV 2.0 is an update brought on by another company attempting to rebalance things. What do you expect? BAP is the Jesus Box of Battletech. It's like MWO's ECM, quite overpowered (when it actually works).

[Jacobei]

Deathlike, on 13 April 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

I think the biggest problem here is understanding the mech.

From your list...



These aren't really top Lights, although there is something in common with them all. They all have a ECM variant (or access to ECM in the case of the Kitfox).

The Spider is just bad on many different levels in terms of offensive firepower, but the 5D is the best variant, due to hardpoints and nudged further by ECM.

The Kitfox is a Light mech in a Medium mech's body... which mostly relies on more firepower to offset its deficiencies because it simply doesn't run as fast as the traditional IS Light mech.

The Raven been quite quirked a bit, with the legs being its major weakness (due to enlarged leg hitboxes). While each variant has its own character or attributes, the 3L is still the best variant due to ECM... even if it doesn't have SRM spam of the Huggin, or superior laser vomit of the 2X.


Just based on your mech assessment, I believe your dependency is solely on the use of ECM instead of traditional methods of trying to find ways of getting close to your targets, shooting them, and then getting away when you are overheating (or at least taking your time to get into a different position while cooling down).


That is the first thing that has to be learned as a Light pilot, when your starting mechs are dependent on ECM. That is a truly hard lesson to learn, and something that has to be accomplished.

Of course, I don't see any builds mentioned in this entire thread... suggesting that there is something possibly wrong in that area...but I believe primarily it's understanding and execution that makes a non-ECM mech harder to use at times when you're used to using ECM.

I don't use any ECM variant of the Kitfox or Spider. I use Raven ECM variant only now when I field it.

Their is another thing they have in common but you missed it. But I bet that is because you most likely are just trolling and talking right out your.. next topic.

Edited by Jacobei, 13 April 2015 - 12:35 PM.

[Deathlike]

Jacobei, on 13 April 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

I don't use any ECM variant of the Kitfox or Spider. I use Raven ECM variant only now when I field it.

Their is another thing they have in common but you missed it. But I bet that is because you most likely are just trolling and talking right out your.. next topic.

I've run them all... mastered them all, and actually occasionally troll in a Mist Lynx (light mech hard mode).

I don't know about you, but if you're saying a Spider can chase down a Firestarter... the Firestarter pilot is generally doing it wrong.

[Jacobei]

Deathlike, on 13 April 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

I've run them all... mastered them all, and actually occasionally troll in a Mist Lynx (light mech hard mode).

I don't know about you, but if you're saying a Spider can chase down a Firestarter... the Firestarter pilot is generally doing it wrong.

And with the overhype that the FS9 is so hugely OP, I most likely am running into more noob light pilots (noob at playing light mechs not the game) because they field them with the cookie cutter mind frame that no other light mech should stand a chance. This is not the case - My spiders speed can out position most average FS9 pilots

I have seen locus do the same to them - and all other light mechs to score a light vs light kill.

Edited by Jacobei, 13 April 2015 - 01:00 PM.

[Deathlike]

Jacobei, on 13 April 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

And with the overhype that the FS9 is so hugely OP, I most likely am running into more noob light pilots (noob at playing light mechs not the game) because they field them with the cookie cutter mind frame that no other light mech should stand a chance. This is not the case - My spiders speed can out position most average FS9 pilots

I have seen locus do the same to them - and all other light mechs to score a light vs light kill.

I'm not sure what the "cookie cutter mind frame" is, but if they are using it wrong, it doesn't mean the mech is bad.

The bad Light players are poor at situational awareness, because a false step tends to lend towards imminent death.

I've played them all (Jenner being the favorite, but the Spider-troll is still exceptional), and what often times happens is that I faced another Light pilot is that they are easy to expose... even the Badder isn't entirely bad, but the leading cause of the majority of deaths, regardless of mech is the lack of situational awareness...

[Nightmare1]

Jacobei, on 13 April 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

I don't use any ECM variant of the Kitfox or Spider. I use Raven ECM variant only now when I field it.

Their is another thing they have in common but you missed it. But I bet that is because you most likely are just trolling and talking right out your.. next topic.

Are you talking JJs? 'Cause the FS has those too...

You're still not making sense here and I'm starting to suspect that the troll here is you...

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 13 April 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

I've run them all... mastered them all, and actually occasionally troll in a Mist Lynx (light mech hard mode).

I don't know about you, but if you're saying a Spider can chase down a Firestarter... the Firestarter pilot is generally doing it wrong.

Spider should be able to chase it down. Actually killing it, on the other hand, is a different matter.

[Timuroslav]

Abisha, on 11 April 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

dude Light mechs are already EXTREME powerful.

Lightmechs can fit like 3/4 of their tonnage into weapons.
while heavy/assaults only have like 50% to 40% of total mech tonnage at their disposable.

What mech are you talking about? the Firestarter?, because the Jenner, Commando and Locust can't directly turn 75% of their tonnage into weapons. Most of that weight goes into engines. A Jenner can't mount 25 tons of Weapons on it. A good Jenner build is about 30% of its weight turned into weapons. That's roughly half of what you claim Light mechs can do.
2 tons on a Commando is the difference between a good build and a bad one.
I'm sorry I'm not attack you personally, I just find your comment really miss informed.


To discourage Heavies and Assault mechs, the best solutions still are Lower the World Heat Capacity, and/or Make them less maneuverable, and/or Lower tonnage.
No one is going to like their Favorite Mech and shining star being nerfed. Most of the popular mechs are the ones with the most guns and armor.

The other thing they could do is make maps bigger. Forcing the resource capture points to be huddled together because everyone wants to bring Laser Assaults on Alpine was obnoxious. But, PGI got gun shy because everyone wants to take the heaviest freaking thing in the game all the time everyday all day. Mastering my Dragons was a pain because Heavies are the go to Mech for everyone who wants to play well.

There will be Even Less Light Pilots when collisions come back.

Battle Value is arbitrary that's why it can't be used.

TL;DR
There is a lot of little things PGI can do to promote people to play Light Mechs. But, so far the Audience has not been complaint, because "PGI plz put [Insert heavy mech] in game pl0x;"
Just some ideas.
-Make map size bigger
or
-Decrease Max heat Capacity; make Mediums and Lights the exception
or
-Increase Light mech heat dissaption
or
-Make Heavies/Assaults less maneuverable
or
-Stop Promoting Meta Builds
or
-Fix PPC's velocity
etc.

Edited by Timuroslav, 13 April 2015 - 01:23 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Jacobei, on 13 April 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

And with the overhype that the FS9 is so hugely OP, I most likely am running into more noob light pilots (noob at playing light mechs not the game) because they field them with the cookie cutter mind frame that no other light mech should stand a chance. This is not the case - My spiders speed can out position most average FS9 pilots

I have seen locus do the same to them - and all other light mechs to score a light vs light kill.

A Spider's speed isn't going to decide a battle between it and a FS, lol. The individual pilots' skills and FS weaponry will do that.

Edit: For those saying Lights aren't powerful, it's not about the amount of weapons you strap one; it's about how you play it. I've consistently hit 700+ with my Locusts, and there is a pilot in my Unit that has hit 1000+ with them (match scores to prove it). Light Mechs in the hands of good pilots are possibly the scariest things in MWO.

Edited by Nightmare1, 13 April 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 April 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

Spider should be able to chase it down. Actually killing it, on the other hand, is a different matter.

Anyone want a Spider-5V vs Firestarter fight?