132 replies to this topic

[Madcap72]

MessyBopzz, on 11 April 2015 - 11:36 PM, said:

Isn't this the very definition of pay to win? Every other post about this everywhere simply dodges the elephant in the room. (This moreso is true for newer players rather than groups of players who all have been playing long enough to have mech loadouts that they are satisfied with)

If I cannot access certain variants that have different hardpoint loadout capabilities unless I pay money, that is called pay to win. (In the case of mechs like the Spider, I guess it's pay to have more convenience/fun because people claim the paid version sucks. but regardless if there were less variants for sale and better customization I wouldn't have to grind forever for the better variant after making the mistake of getting the useless one. If only my spider 5k could fit another lazer I wouldnt have to grind for months and buy something new to not get owned.

There are people willing to buy the more capable/versatile variants of each mech, because it seems to only be available for mc/money. I am not willing to pay money just to be able to play as the most capable version of a mech or to have the loadout that will take me likely months possibly years to get for just 1 mech

Even though I'm not competetive in this game anyway, I still don't like the idea of getting owned by people that have loadouts that I can't even work towards without paying money.

If you want to play as a certain mech, with a certain loadout, you either simply can't or may have to pay money. All I'm talking about is customization. Hardpoints limit your customization capabilities making you have to pay for a mech with different hardpoints/weapons. Each mech should only be limited by it's tonnage or possibly other factors, rather than hardpoints. I like the game, this is just my opinion. Because of hardpoints, I either have to grind and spend c bills on a new engine for my current spider or grind and spend c bills or buy a new spider/mech. I wasted all my c bills on the 5k at first. IMO the spider 5k when it is first bought is probably one of the most useless mechs in the game.. except for maybe distracting people?

Cool, go back to paying 60 bucks for console games and 15-30 bucks every time some rehashed map pack drops, then getting nothing for the privlege of playing. It will be even better if you have to pay a monthly fee just to access the ability to play online.



Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the grind, all the free stuff I win almost every weekend now, and enjoy hte fact I played for years having spent NO MONEY untill I was ready to, and only when I saw benifit. In fact, the reason I spent dime one was to support the game for the enjoyment I had been having for free.




Pay to win... LOL.




The guy that spends NO MONEY and grinds his way to a full mechbay is going to stomp the guts out of anyone that thinks they can just buy a "special mech" and have it mean anything.


It's still a game of skill vs skill, no matter what people try to talk themselves into believe it's shortcomings are. EVERYONE is crippled equally.

[Madcap72]

El Bandito, on 12 April 2015 - 02:46 AM, said:

Certain heroes do better than their regular brethren.

1. Pirate's Bane--ECM.

2. Yellow Wang--Dem AC20 quirks, and out of this world torso twist speed.

3. Ilya--Much dakka, so wow. Especially since JJs got nurfed.

4. Misery--Ballistic slot on a Stalker, mon.

Out of my head. With Large class laser GH increased to three, Heavy Metal can also make the list, since having three energy slots in one arm is awesome.

Yet i smoke all of them regulalry with my poor lowly C-bill grind mechs.


So do other people.

They are not magic, and they are only "better" to people who can maximize them.

Same as ANY mech.

[RavensScar]

MessyBopzz, on 12 April 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:

For example, a spider mech with 2 er large lazers on its chest, an AC2 and a machine gun?

Ok, I have to ask - where did you find this Spider?

[Alistair Winter]

@OP: Welcome to MWO. You're not going to get anywhere with this thread. Ultimately, P2W is a matter of semantics and while there have been periods in MWO where the best mechs have been locked behind a pay wall (e.g. hero mechs or early access), most MWO players don't consider that P2W. They consider it "Pay to play" or something or other.

The good news is that you've started MWO when the best mechs are not hero mechs. The best CTF and the best Centurion are hero mechs, but "fortunately" the Centurion and Cataphract aren't too hot at the moment anyway, due to ballistics being inferior in the laservomit metagame.

There have been many moments in the history of MWO when the best mechs (e.g. Ilya Muromets, Ember, Timber Wolf, Storm Crow) were behind a pay wall. But right now, things are ok in that regard. When the Ebon Jaguar arrives (Clan Wave 3), history may indeed repeat itself. Arctic Cheetah also looks to be the best Clan light mech by far, and it's going to stay locked behind a pay wall for a long, long time.

So to quote one of my favourite Animatrix movies: "For a time, it was good."

[El Bandito]

Madcap72, on 12 April 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

Yet i smoke all of them regulalry with my poor lowly C-bill grind mechs.

So do other people.

They are not magic, and they are only "better" to people who can maximize them.

Same as ANY mech.

If they are better to people who can maximize them, compared to C-Bill variants, then they are P2W. The chassis themselves might not be top of the line, but within the variants, those mechs are P2W since they are MC only. The Dragon Slayer used to be the #1 mech in MWO for many months.

Oh, forgot to add Dragon Slayer to the list.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 April 2015 - 04:27 PM.

[sneeking]

Nice spider, sell me one now.

I send money !

Edited by sneeking, 12 April 2015 - 03:33 AM.

[Elizander]

sneeking, on 12 April 2015 - 02:05 AM, said:

The grind and failing didn't stop me when I was new.

When I started this game my PC had 2 gig ram on a 512kbps internet line. I couldn't hit anything due to HSR, had 400-600 ping and I was frequently disconnected from matches. I grinded out two Atlases and mastered them.

Still, that doesn't mean everyone should go through that experience.

[sneeking]

Elizander, on 12 April 2015 - 03:56 AM, said:

When I started this game my PC had 2 gig ram on a 512kbps internet line. I couldn't hit anything due to HSR, had 400-600 ping and I was frequently disconnected from matches. I grinded out two Atlases and mastered them.

Still, that doesn't mean everyone should go through that experience.

You did.

[PurpleNinja]

[TwentyOne]

Please don't complain about the underpowered, underquirked hero mechs. There are very very few instances where a hero mech is better than a standard variant. It doesn't even matter anyway because FS is the best light, Scrow the best med, Timber God best heavy, Best assault is debatable but IMO either Crab or Stalker. Best meaning most fit for the current less fun meta of extreme mid range alpha strikes. They made those heroes to make people want to buy them. Just pay up and get the darn things, they aren't that expensive, and If "your waiting for your paycheck" then you are either terrible at managing your money, or not making enough.

Any person that isn't a complete idiot at managing income should have 20 extra dollars. In fact I know its off topic, but i'm tired of seeing people that are some unbelievably **** at managing the money they make, they cant pay for gas and have to borrow it from me......while making 30,000 a year.

[sneeking]

30 grand ? Wtf is this !

1970 ?

[TercieI]

El Bandito, on 12 April 2015 - 02:46 AM, said:

Certain heroes do better than their regular brethren.

1. Pirate's Bane--ECM.

2. Yellow Wang--Dem AC20 quirks, and out of this world torso twist speed.

3. Ilya--Much dakka, so wow. Especially since JJs got nurfed.

4. Dragon Slayer--Asymmetrical build is very powerful on that mech.

5. Misery--Ballistic slot on a Stalker, mon.

Out of my head. With Large class laser GH increased to three, Heavy Metal can also make the list, since having three energy slots in one arm is awesome.

LCT-1E is much better than PB. Much. It's not close.

Oxide is the best Jenner now, though.

That said, there's no hero that is so dominant that P2W is a legit complaint. When Dragon Slayers and Embers ruled, you could have made a case. OP here seems to just be objecting to F2P (naive) and the horrible NPE of MWO (totally legit).

[El Bandito]

Terciel1976, on 12 April 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

LCT-1E is much better than PB. Much. It's not close.

Oxide is the best Jenner now, though.

That said, there's no hero that is so dominant that P2W is a legit complaint. When Dragon Slayers and Embers ruled, you could have made a case. OP here seems to just be objecting to F2P (naive) and the horrible NPE of MWO (totally legit).

I already made the case when DS and Ember ruled. Many times. In fact, DS and Ember are the only hero mechs I own, cause PGI didn't do anything in that regards for a long time.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 April 2015 - 04:26 AM.

[TercieI]

El Bandito, on 12 April 2015 - 04:23 AM, said:

I already made the case when DS and Ember ruled. Many times. In fact, DS and Ember are the only hero mechs I own, cause PGI didn't do anything in that regards for a long time.

Yeah. Those were bad times. I'm very glad they're gone (on several levels).

[Almond Brown]

MessyBopzz, on 12 April 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

I didn't pay real money for the spider 5k I just wasted all my c bills

What was your final total provided by the Cadet Bonus? (First 25 games). That 5K you complain about is only 2.45M C-Bills, you could get at least 2 Spiders for the Cadet bonus.

There is no unfettered "Customization". To have that would be a joke so bad MWO would be dead already. If you stare ay your C-Bill counter it is like a Toaster, it will indeed pop-up but it seems dead slow. Just play that game and the funds will flow. Believe me when I say I know...

Welcome to MWO btw.

[Chuanhao]

I think OP is commenting about the limitations imposed by fixed hard points rather than anything else.

The simple answer is that the hard points are based on Battletech Lore. Which to a person who has no knowledge of BTech would not appreciate. But it is these limitations that give each mech and variant their character.

I thought you were asking for each mech in each weight class to have the ability to put any number of whatever weapon as long as it's within weight limit. From a purist gaming angle I can understand. But not from a BTech universe view. It would destroy what the mech was designed for in lore.

A good way is to go to sarna.net and read about the history of say the Awesome and see why it has only energy load out and nothing else.

As for squandering cadet bonus, my first mech was the AWS-8Q. I believe my learning curve was just as bad as yours even though I knew about smurfy and lore.

But I happily own 40 mechs now. And I play only weekends for about an hour after the kids are asleep. It's doable. But I put in 120 for wave three. No way I can grind enough in a year for 16 clan mechs. So I just bought them.

[TexAce]

MessyBopzz, on 12 April 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

You understand I have so much on my mind? When I get ready to enjoy myself with any activity - this may be a fault of mine - I do not usually come to ask people how to have fun before doing so. How am I supposed to know that some of the stuff included in the game is bad?

Is that the new thing now? Whatever game I play, hop onto the forums and ask people which stuff IN THE GAME is good or bad? How bout I just play the game? (I'm not being a smartass I'm just doing a stand up comedy routine about gaming)

But seeing as how this game is relatively slightly more complex than others and has also had a long online history and community, you're absolutely right and I should have thought ahead.

This was always the way

Even in Diablo 2 you could have gone your way without consulting the internet and make a **** build OR you could have used your time and prepared yourself if you don't like to spend time playing the game in **** builds/chars....

Edited by TexAss, 12 April 2015 - 05:22 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Elizander, on 12 April 2015 - 03:56 AM, said:

When I started this game my PC had 2 gig ram on a 512kbps internet line. I couldn't hit anything due to HSR, had 400-600 ping and I was frequently disconnected from matches. I grinded out two Atlases and mastered them.

Still, that doesn't mean everyone should go through that experience.

oh, i play right now having something like 1 fps per second or less :3
well i have ecm, ams, active proble and try to either stick to my team if i can move properly or to scout if i cannot
even with targeting comp, artemis and active probe i usually miss lockings on lrm, and a laser can hit stuff only accidentally... if i get an assist it's a lucky match
obviously i turned off the team chat, lol. actually i am waiting for an incoming ban (:

btw if 512kbps isn't enough for this game it's not only inefficient graphically but also its net code is inefficient too

[TexAce]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 April 2015 - 05:23 AM, said:

oh, i play right now having something like 1 fps per second or less :3
well i have ecm, ams, active proble and try to either stick to my team if i can move properly or to scout if i cannot
even with targeting comp, artemis and active probe i usually miss lockings on lrm, and a laser can hit stuff only accidentally... if i get an assist it's a lucky match
obviously i turned off the team chat, lol. actually i am waiting for an incoming ban (:

btw if 512kbps isn't enough for this game it's not only inefficient graphically but also its net code is inefficient too

sounds more like packet loss due to an old copper line and a huge latency due to high ping (far far away form servers). The game's net efficiency is about 9-25kb/s not more

Edited by TexAss, 12 April 2015 - 05:26 AM.

[Fragnot]

MessyBopzz, on 12 April 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

I didn't pay real money for the spider 5k I just wasted all my c bills

You still have the Spider then? I wouldn't call it a waste...

Buy a few chassis with MC, sell them for C-Bills, and then buy them back later like I have; then we can talk about waste

I agree that the initial grind for a F2P here is pretty steep, don't get discouraged. As others have suggested, it pays to research Mechs and builds before buying when your account is new (metamechs, smurfy's, youtube etc).
I hope you stick with it, glhf^^