99 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Alwrath, on 13 April 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

The dual erppc gauss Timber does not have jump jets, unless your running only 1.5 - 2 tons of ammo. Have you even played the Timber?

Also that build blows on a Timber, no targeting computer or velocity increase quirks. Your better off with 2 LPL Gauss, or er meds gauss.

ha ha ha ha




Trolls aside, mine has 2 JJ, and 3 tons of ammo so.....

and yes the lazors are better, but I still like the character of the ER PPCs, and while it is not optimum any more it is still enjoyable to me. Give me (and many others) those 15 damage c ER PPCs though... the crying will be unprecedented.

Especially when you escalate to the 2 x 2 Dire. Laser vomit is still more damage but still... 60 FLD is nothing to scoff at.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 13 April 2015 - 01:25 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Metus regem, on 13 April 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

True...

IS has:

1. Gauss
2. Another Gauss
3. AC-20
4. Another AC-20


Guess I just don't understand why it's okay for the IS to have two weapon systems that can do it, and the Clans can't...

It's not an even trade because the AC/20 is a niche weapon that works only at very short ranges and requires a massive investment in slots and tonnage for the gun alone that C-ERPPC would not. The Clans would get a cheap, resource-efficient 30-point knock-out weapon usable past 800 meters to complement the Gauss while the IS gets a 20-point version that runs just as hot, is heavier, and is bigger.

The AC/20 is more comparable to the LB-20X. At ranges you would use an AC/20, the LB-20X is still pretty damn effective. That said, I don't see much of either weapon precisely because they are so short-ranged, weigh so much, and take up so many slots.

[Tombstoner]

Mister Raven, on 13 April 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

If they didn't want clans to be so overpowered they should have chosed a later time line where innersphere have rotary autocannons heavy guass and x pulse lasers.

right?

Actually they should have started with 3025 or 2700 and given themselves room to develop.... but when your money maker strategy is extra hard points on cash only mechs and early access to clearly broken OP clan tech. This is what we get.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 April 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

It's not an even trade because the AC/20 is a niche weapon that works only at very short ranges and requires a massive investment in slots and tonnage for the gun alone that C-ERPPC would not. The Clans would get a cheap, resource-efficient 30-point knock-out weapon usable past 800 meters to complement the Gauss while the IS gets a 20-point version that runs just as hot, is heavier, and is bigger.

This word may be misused in this case, with the state of (c)(ER) PPCs now.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 April 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

ha ha ha ha

Trolls aside, mine has 2 JJ, and 3 tons of ammo so.....

So you only run 403 armor eh? Gotcha. You must run out of ammo every single match in pug land, and forget CW with that amount of ammo lol.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 April 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

This word may be misused in this case, with the state of (c)(ER) PPCs now.

I use ER PPCs past 800 meters in CW, even on non-quirked chassis. I like them. They could be better, mind you, but they aren't total garbage. I'd rather trade blows against that C-ERLL HBR using ERPPCs than with any form of IS ERLL. Use his burn times against him.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alwrath, on 13 April 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

So you only run 403 armor eh? Gotcha. You must run out of ammo every single match in pug land, and forget CW with that amount of ammo lol.

Yeah, gimped left arm and a bit off of the legs and 17 on the head.

I have never played it in CW because I have only played IS in CW so far, and once in a while I run out in pug land but that means I probably did close to 1000 damage so that's cool.

I don't know where you have been, 3 tons per Gauss in pug matches is like, the standard. Is there a reason for your hostile attitude or are you just mad you don't have 15 damage 6 ton ERPPCs?

Yeonne Greene, on 13 April 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

I use ER PPCs past 800 meters in CW, even on non-quirked chassis. I like them. They could be better, mind you, but they aren't total garbage. I'd rather trade blows against that C-ERLL HBR using ERPPCs than with any form of IS ERLL. Use his burn times against him.

In CW people have a tendency to poke and just stand there so yeah ER PPCs work then.. until you go up against someone who is running all over the place.

Don't get me wrong, they can be useful, but overall DPS will be better and more consistent with the ER LLs.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 13 April 2015 - 02:01 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 April 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

Yeah, gimped left arm and a bit off of the legs and 17 on the head.

I have never played it in CW because I have only played IS in CW so far, and once in a while I run out in pug land but that means I probably did close to 1000 damage so that's cool.

I don't know where you have been, 3 tons per Gauss in pug matches is like, the standard. Is there a reason for your hostile attitude or are you just mad you don't have 15 damage 6 ton ERPPCs?



In CW people have a tendency to poke and just stand there so yeah ER PPCs work then.. until you go up against someone who is running all over the place.

ERLL are just as terrible against somebody running all over the place. Your hit percentage with ERPPC will result in about the same amount of damage and spread as you trying to hold that burn with the laser on a single component. Mind you, I'm not bothering to shoot at lights at 800 meters unless they present themselves. I'm concerned with the larger 'Mechs, the ones that are going to just form a big conga line and rush your generators. Those are all fairly easy to hit, and I'm not even that great of a shot (working on it, though).

That said, I've not encountered anybody "running all over the place." Not even -MS-. They'll crash the gates hard and come at you in a big wall of robots, but ERLL are just as terrible as PPCs in that case. There, you need AC/s, wubs, and SRM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 April 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

I don't know where you have been, 3 tons per Gauss in pug matches is like, the standard. Is there a reason for your hostile attitude or are you just mad you don't have 15 damage 6 ton ERPPCs?

There is a difference between discussing a sub optimal build, such as yours, and being hostile. Also, 3.5 tons is just enough with the Gauss cooldown module to not run out of ammo in pug land, most of the time. Even then I run out sometimes, and always run out on alpine.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 April 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

ERLL are just as terrible against somebody running all over the place. Your hit percentage with ERPPC will result in about the same amount of damage and spread as you trying to hold that burn with the laser on a single component. Mind you, I'm not bothering to shoot at lights at 800 meters unless they present themselves. I'm concerned with the larger 'Mechs, the ones that are going to just form a big conga line and rush your generators. Those are all fairly easy to hit, and I'm not even that great of a shot (working on it, though).

That said, I've not encountered anybody "running all over the place." Not even -MS-. They'll crash the gates hard and come at you in a big wall of robots, but ERLL are just as terrible as PPCs in that case. There, you need AC/s, wubs, and SRM.

So I'm thinking of attacking on Boreal and just sitting at the gens shooting 911m ER LLs out of a BLR-1S. I can shoot more often with the ER LLs, there for damage output is higher, and most of the time when an Adder or Kit Fox pops its head up and isn't moving, an alpha kills them (not sure if they are already damaged or what, but they just die). ER PPCs are hotter, can't pack as much damage and are a little less reliable at 1000m, even on slow moving targets that are easy to track with lasers. From a pure damage stand point ER LLs are better, and I almost never wish I had ER PPCs.

But anyway, this thread is about c ER PPCs doing 15 damage... not ER PPCs vs ER LLs.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alwrath, on 13 April 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

There is a difference between discussing a sub optimal build, such as yours, and being hostile. Also, 3.5 tons is just enough with the Gauss cooldown module to not run out of ammo in pug land, most of the time. Even then I run out sometimes, and always run out on alpine.

Well if you are running cER MLs then the Gauss is your only LR trading weapon so that makes sense.

You can talk about it being sub optimal all you want, it is still one of my favorite mechs.

[SweetJackal]

Prosperity Park, on 13 April 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

Not only does ClanTech beat IS tech throughout the entire timeline, but that would eliminate the ability to have an invasion to Terra as per the timeline (we would have to be in much, much later era to get them even close).

Also, the idea thatbClans should be better and the IS should field more Mechs is extremely detrimental to this game's viability on the market. Who wants to play a lousy Mech when you can play a good Mech? If this were a game that pitted Soldier vs. Soldier, would you rather play as a Musketeer on a team of 100, or would you rather play as a modern U.S. Infantryman on a team of 30 against those musketeers? Everybody and their brother would rather play with automatic carbines and bolt-action rifles over muskets - you have more targets, more firing opportunities, and you get to kill more enemies.

It would be lame to play as the IS if they get more Mechs that suck, and the Clans get fewer Mechs that are simply better in every way. Nobody would want to queue for IS, and compound that by the need for more IS players compared to Clan players to get a match... The game would fail.

People who want OP Clan Tech want MWO to fail.

Bingo!

OP Clans only remotely worked with the TT as:

A ) It wasn't a free to play online multiplayer game. To even play you bought into books and minitures. It was designed very much around TCGs and CCGs, power creep was a real thing but it was mitigated by other systems and by the format of play. With real boardgames and tabletop games you can place in house rules and gentleman agreements between players and even choose who you play with and against. Online digital play very rarely have those options, you are confined to the predetermined ruleset of the game and have no control over who you face off against.

B ) The BV system, while seriously flawed and able to be metagamed in it's own right, it generally mitigated the advantages of Clan Tech by making Clan mechs much more costly in BV allowance than their IS counterparts. Meaning that the IS would either have been able to field more mechs or heavier mechs than the Clans on the same BV allowance. This worked because a single player would control their entire BV allowance at once, something that isn't workable due to the format change. Even with sides being relatively even you still had players flock to the Clans for the higher powered tech.

With the change in format you have to change the content of the game to match that format. To introduce that same level of power creep and keep the Clans mechanically OP as they were in the table top would have made all prior IS content obsolete. The only way to try to keep a large number of players from dropping the game like a wet towel would be to introduce a timeline sharding to ensure mechs would only face off against mechs of their same tech level and the game didn't have the playerbase to support that (still doesn't, as split queues and strict 3/3/3/3 creating unreasonable wait times for games is a real concern)

Edited by SuckyJack, 13 April 2015 - 02:40 PM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 April 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

Well if you are running cER MLs then the Gauss is your only LR trading weapon so that makes sense.

You can talk about it being sub optimal all you want, it is still one of my favorite mechs.

I ran dual large pulse and gauss in the arms for a while. Its a headshot monster. No jj though = /

Edited by Alwrath, 13 April 2015 - 02:40 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 April 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

So I'm thinking of attacking on Boreal and just sitting at the gens shooting 911m ER LLs out of a BLR-1S. I can shoot more often with the ER LLs, there for damage output is higher, and most of the time when an Adder or Kit Fox pops its head up and isn't moving, an alpha kills them (not sure if they are already damaged or what, but they just die). ER PPCs are hotter, can't pack as much damage and are a little less reliable at 1000m, even on slow moving targets that are easy to track with lasers. From a pure damage stand point ER LLs are better, and I almost never wish I had ER PPCs.

But anyway, this thread is about c ER PPCs doing 15 damage... not ER PPCs vs ER LLs.

I'm not interested in peak DPS at 800 meters, I'm interested in not hanging out in the open to take return fire. So you can shoot more often all you want, but your rate of fire is dependent upon my presence to mean anything. You fire at me as often as I want you to, or you are wasting shots. And when you do fire, my PPC round goes off and I'm just wrapping your laser burn around my 'Mech, if I'm even still poking out at all.

Really, it's just my preference. I've yet to really feel outgunned when using ERPPCs in CW (on my BLR-3M, they've got 972 meter range), but I have been outgunned with 4x ERLL on my K2. So I've recently switched it to the old-school PPC+AC/5 so I can just scoot along and pop shots off. It works well for me.

As for the C-ERPPC, I'd be fine with it being bumped to 15 pin-point damage if the IS ERPPC gets dropped to, at most, 10 heat in return. Both need velocity improvements, though I'm not thrilled with the idea of PPCs being nothing more than energy-typed auto-cannons.

[Bloody]

i am gonna go with either
1. OP is trolling for attention.
2. casually ignorant about the overall need to balance the game
3. Nub TT player with a hard on for the Clans

/shrug

[Gyrok]

Mcgral18, on 13 April 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

The cERPPC is straight up better than the isERPPC.

Both simply aren't very good anymore.

Yeah, but IS STD PPC is arguably significantly better than both by far...

[Mawai]

Tombstoner, on 13 April 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

Actually they should have started with 3025 or 2700 and given themselves room to develop.... but when your money maker strategy is extra hard points on cash only mechs and early access to clearly broken OP clan tech. This is what we get.

Actually, I think the clan invasion was explicitly chosen from the beginning from a marketing and fan perspective. There are Battletech fans, there are IS fans and there are clan fans. IS and clan partisans can be quite loyal both in terms of interest and in terms of spending money. There are both clan and IS iconic mechs in the 3050 to 3060 clan invasion time frame.

So ... ultimately, that window makes the best choice from the point of view of greatest revenue and appealing to the most fans of the franchise. I can't blame them for it at all and think it was a good financial plan.

[Mcgral18]

Gyrok, on 13 April 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Yeah, but IS STD PPC is arguably significantly better than both by far...

Yes, but they are different weapons.

[Gyrok]

Prosperity Park, on 13 April 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

Clan ERPPC weighs less than IS ERPPC, takes up fewer slots, and deals extra damage with no cons whatsoever. It is better than the IS ERPPC in every way with no drawbacks in comparison with the IS ERPPC.

In order to make the game more fair and balanced, they took that extra damage and spread it out to nearby body parts instead of making it all pinpoint. That is very fair. If yo think thebClan ERPPC that deals more damage, weighs less, and takes up fewer slots isn't good enough, then I would love to hear how you feel about IS ERPPCs...

Except the ERPPCs make the AC10 look like a Rock Star.

Do not complain about 1 of 2 options we have for PP FLD being slightly better than 1 of your 7. Even in spite of that, it still manages to be terrible...

I find that to be quite funny actually...

PGI: "PPCs are fine...jump sniping is fine...W.A.I."

Players: "Nah, maybe adjust it..."

PGI: "You are all flipping nuts! I cannot fathom what...oh, hey, Clans are coming"

Players: "15 damage ERPPCs! Woo!"

PGI: "Nah, it is 10 + 2.5 + 2.5 suckers...oh...by the way...we are adjusting all PPC velocities to 60% of what they were...enjoy"

New Players: "WOOHOO!"

Old Players: "Well, it was due...still sucks though..."

[FupDup]

Comparing the ERPPCs between factions, the IS ERPPC is a bad weapon and the Clan ERPPC is less bad.