159 replies to this topic

[Avengar]

this is the
Pugs vs. Pre-mades are no fun for the pugs and drives people off except for the pre-mades which will eventually drive them off because of waiting times for matches are going to get longer
pre-made vs. pre-made and pug vs. pug. this would fix most of the complaints about balance.

[IlKhan Prepaid Kerensky]

CW is for organized groups.

This game is already organized in the way you want. Public que is for pugs. CW is for premades. You join the premade game mode without one at your peril. If you like CW, join a unit. Lots of choices available.

[Surn]

I vote PUGS.. wait where is the poll?

[Romeo Deluxe]

What would be ideal, which has already been talked about in other threads, is if the solo public matches were to be worked into CW in some way. It wouldn't be the main thing that flips planets, but it could be a part of it all.

Pugs still can work in CW, just need to have 2 or 3 people on mics who know how to lead. If you were to play it enough you would learn what works and communication is key to adjusting to the flow of the battle. A lot of people (I suspect the OP to be one) just throw up their hands and give up.

Adapt and conquer.

[Triordinant]

Avengar, on 13 April 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

this is the
Pugs vs. Pre-mades are no fun for the pugs and drives people off except for the pre-mades which will eventually drive them off because of waiting times for matches are going to get longer
pre-made vs. pre-made and pug vs. pug. this would fix most of the complaints about balance.

PUGs vs PUGs is already available in the public solo-only queue. There's a reason why a similar solo-only queue won't work in CW. The reason the public solo-only queue that exists today works is because premade teams can't reliably sync-drop into it because they'd end up on opposite teams even if they managed to sync-drop as solos into the same match. In CW, the players on one team all belong to the same faction while the opposing team is always from a different faction. That means it's impossible for members of a premade to be on opposite teams when they sync-drop. That means premades CAN reliably sync-drop in a CW solo-only queue, thereby defeating its purpose.

[Naelbis]

Prepaid Lenin, on 13 April 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

CW is for organized groups.

This game is already organized in the way you want. Public que is for pugs. CW is for premades. You join the premade game mode without one at your peril. If you like CW, join a unit. Lots of choices available.

That is not what I was promised when I dropped cash on the game during Beta. Nor should it be the case. EVERY match should be part of CW, otherwise the entire mode will wither and die just like the "group que" did. You CANNOT build or sustain a game catering only to the hardcore elitists, they just don't spend enough to keep the whole thing going. Casuals pay the bills simply through numbers. FYI, while I have lost to plenty of premades while pugging in CW I have also been part of several pug groups that punched them in the mouth and sent them packing with a loss.

Edited by Naelbis, 13 April 2015 - 03:24 PM.

[Avengar]

if CW is for premades than why can you Pug it? since you can then it means it's not just for premades if that is what they want remove the ability to pug it

[Triordinant]

Avengar, on 13 April 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

if CW is for premades than why can you Pug it? since you can then it means it's not just for premades if that is what they want remove the ability to pug it

The reason they let PUGs play CW is to fill the gaps for premade teams with less than 12 members. Otherwise, it would take forever for the premades to find a match. Most PUGs that end up as fillers lose most of the time and eventually quit CW. A rare few lose most of the time, claim to enjoy it and keep playing CW. That means most PUGs in CW are cannon fodder. When they announced how CW worked just before they launched it, I figured out what would happen and that's why I've never played CW.

[IlKhan Prepaid Kerensky]

All of your complaints seem valid. I'm still just stating the reality of the game.

[Rampancy]

Get better at the game, use your comms, and LISTEN TO YOUR TEAMMATES. The only real advantage of a 12-man over a PUG team is the level of coordination. Take that advantage away, and the playing field is level.

[Shadey99]

Prepaid Lenin, on 13 April 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

CW is for organized groups.

This game is already organized in the way you want. Public que is for pugs. CW is for premades. You join the premade game mode without one at your peril. If you like CW, join a unit. Lots of choices available.

There is a reason I don't join a unit... Actually several starting with the fact that I don't like running a separate chat client. I have a single monitor so adjusting things (like switching group 'channels') like chat rooms in apps like team speak when running the game are a total pain.

My mic also doesn't like to work in push to talk mode. Which I think is why it doesn't work in MWO. In Teamspeak I could use it by leaving it open and muting and unmuting it to simulate push-to-talk. Why it doesn't work in push-to-talk mode has defied all attempts to 'fix' it.

I also don't live alone and no one else I live with wants to hear my talking until midnight so I can play with west coast players on the east coast in their prime time. I played Archeage in a guild and used Teamspeak for awhile, but my room mates complained constantly so I simply didn't talk 99% of the time anyways. Most groups tell you to to hit the road if you can't talk and have to type.

One or more of those things effect a lot of players. In pug matches it's rare to see even one person use voice within the client.

[Yokaiko]

Personal.issues.

[Triordinant]

RampancyTW, on 13 April 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Get better at the game, use your comms, and LISTEN TO YOUR TEAMMATES. The only real advantage of a 12-man over a PUG team is the level of coordination. Take that advantage away, and the playing field is level.

Not the only advantage. Most competitive premade teams practice constantly and have codewords for every important feature on all the maps so they don't need the battlegrid. More importantly, they practice together. On top of that, they have fully mastered meta 'mechs with maximum modules AND their 'mechs are pre-selected and armed to work together to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. By comparison, the PUGs have never practiced together, don't have 'mechs pre-selected to work together and some of them are still earning their cadet bonus and using trial 'mechs. Comms will NOT make up for all that.

[Rampancy]

Triordinant, on 13 April 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Not the only advantage. Most competitive premade teams practice constantly and have codewords for every important feature on all the maps so they don't need the battlegrid. More importantly, they practice together. On top of that, they have fully mastered meta 'mechs with maximum modules AND their 'mechs are pre-selected and armed to work together to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. By comparison, the PUGs have never practiced together, don't have 'mechs pre-selected to work together and some of them are still earning their cadet bonus and using trial 'mechs. Comms will NOT make up for all that.

All of those things can be made up for with good communication and PUG players understanding their mechs and using them for the roles they're built for.

There are a lot of really good PUG players out there that are more than capable of tackling some of the 8-12mans we come across in CW. The biggest issue I run into as a PUG is players who just. Don't. Listen. Groups of 3-5 players splitting off from what the main group is doing, players essentially suiciding over and over, etc. That has nothing to do with the PUG vs. 12-man "issue" and everything to do with disparities in player skill and understanding.

[Yokaiko]

Triordinant, on 13 April 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Not the only advantage. Most competitive premade teams practice constantly and have codewords for every important feature on all the maps so they don't need the battlegrid. More importantly, they practice together. On top of that, they have fully mastered meta 'mechs with maximum modules AND their 'mechs are pre-selected and armed to work together to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. By comparison, the PUGs have never practiced together, don't have 'mechs pre-selected to work together and some of them are still earning their cadet bonus and using trial 'mechs. Comms will NOT make up for all that.

Most true comp team avoid CW.....

...even crews like NS that have comp teams, their comp guys don't have a huge presence.

[Uncle Totty]

Triordinant, on 13 April 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

The reason they let PUGs play CW is to fill the gaps for premade teams with less than 12 members. Otherwise, it would take forever for the premades to find a match. Most PUGs that end up as fillers lose most of the time and eventually quit CW. A rare few lose most of the time, claim to enjoy it and keep playing CW. That means most PUGs in CW are cannon fodder. When they announced how CW worked just before they launched it, I figured out what would happen and that's why I've never played CW.

If you did play CW, you would know that is not what happens. Most PUGs in CW do not fill in gaps, they make up entire teams.

[Triordinant]

RampancyTW, on 13 April 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

All of those things can be made up for with good communication and PUG players understanding their mechs and using them for the roles they're built for.

Absolutely NOT. All those things can NOT be made up for with good communication. Slightly mitigated, possibly, but NOT made up for. Weekly group training sessions and pre-selected fully mastered and moduled meta 'mechs vs. a team that never trained together and half of them cadets in trials? Are you serious?

[Triordinant]

RampancyTW, on 13 April 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

There are a lot of really good PUG players out there that are more than capable of tackling some of the 8-12mans we come across in CW. The biggest issue I run into as a PUG is players who just. Don't. Listen. Groups of 3-5 players splitting off from what the main group is doing, players essentially suiciding over and over, etc. That has nothing to do with the PUG vs. 12-man "issue" and everything to do with disparities in player skill and understanding.

You realize that an all-PUG team that made NONE of those mistakes will still lose 3 out of 4 matches (or worse) against a 12-man competitive premade.

Nathan K, on 13 April 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

If you did play CW, you would know that is not what happens. Most PUGs in CW do not fill in gaps, they make up entire teams.

So you're telling me it's actually WORSE than I thought. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Rampancy]

Triordinant, on 13 April 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Absolutely NOT. All those things can NOT be made up for with good communication. Slightly mitigated, possibly, but NOT made up for. Weekly group training sessions and pre-selected fully mastered and moduled meta 'mechs vs. a team that never trained together and half of them cadets in trials? Are you serious?

You're describing largely an issue with poor/new players, not a PUG vs. 12-man issue. If you don't have end-game content, you're going to be at a disadvantage in CW, yes. The solution to that is to get end-game content.

A CW-seasoned PUG group is going to know the maps well enough to properly communicate when to go where, and know what their mech should and shouldn't be doing in a given situation. Is the playing field fully level? Of course not. But good PUG players will stack up close enough to similarly-skilled 12-mans to produce good games and win some of them.

Bad players playing CW is not an issue with PUGs vs. 12-mans, it's an issue with bad players.

[Triordinant]

RampancyTW, on 13 April 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

You're describing largely an issue with poor/new players, not a PUG vs. 12-man issue. If you don't have end-game content, you're going to be at a disadvantage in CW, yes. The solution to that is to get end-game content.

A CW-seasoned PUG group is going to know the maps well enough to properly communicate when to go where, and know what their mech should and shouldn't be doing in a given situation. Is the playing field fully level? Of course not. But good PUG players will stack up close enough to similarly-skilled 12-mans to produce good games and win some of them.

Bad players playing CW is not an issue with PUGs vs. 12-mans, it's an issue with bad players.

Your argument might have some validity IF there was Elo matchmaking in CW. Without it, chances of getting your "CW seasoned PUG group" is slim and getting many new players in trials on your PUG team is more likely. Don't get me wrong: PUG groups can and do win sometimes; it's just that the premades win 5 or more times as often.