203 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

Since a lot of people agree that the DW, TW and SC at least need taken down a bit lets talk about the best way to do that and why. Also if you do not agree they need nerfed explain why. Looking forward to hear what you have to say on the subject. Thanks!

Agility (accel/decel/torso yaw rate/turn rate etc)

Durability (armor, struture, hitboxes)

Firepower (heat gen, coodown, duration etc)

Heat (heat dissipation/heat capacity)

Changes could be to just the mech or across the board to Clans with a buff later to the weaker clan mechs to bring them back up.

Please share what you think would be best.

Here is what I personally would like to see happen.

DW - Since it is already not agile and slow heat capacity seems fine for a fix. And probably does not have to be a huge hit even. Also at the same time offset this with a buff to turning maybe?

TW - This one is a bit harder since its so good at everything. I noticed some people want large agility nerfs while others would like fire power nerfs or durability nerfs instead of agility nerfs. Personaly I dislike mobility nerfs on mechs that are supposed to be mobile and agile. For example how the nerfed the Victor in the past to stop jump sniping and it hurt all of the Victor builds. The TW has a very large engine per its weight so I really think it should keep the agility and get nerfs to duration or and cool down and or heat gen. You could even give it negative range quirks if you think that is one of the main factors. But I very much do not want this large engine mech being nerfed into moving like an Atlas.

SC - The SC like the TW has just about everything going for it. To me the first thing to nerf on the Storm crow is Durability. It has amazing hit boxes and takes damage like larger mechs. Bringing this part into line with other mechs of its tonnage would be a good start. Since it has positive movement quirks seems natural to remove these as a start. At the same time give it a bit of negative quirks to heat gen etc. I think this three way combination of hits would do it. You would just have to be careful not to over nerf it.

Next is more of a question than a suggestion. The Hellbringer is not on the same level as the big three but its also better than the mechs below it in many ways. Should it have a small nerf of some kind or just leave it like it is?

For bonus points what would you do about some of the bottom tier mechs like the Awesome Pretty Baby, Catapult C4, Vindicator 1X etc.

Please explain why you want certain nerfs and not just what nerfs you want.

Out of general interest here is the same question over at Reddit Outreach HPG. http://www.reddit.co...o_fix_dw_tw_st/

And related threads http://www.reddit.co..._priority_when/

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 18 April 2015 - 08:24 AM.

[Armorine]

The DW doesn't need to be touched. It's an easy kill already due to its Size

[Fate 6]

Direwolf is probably balanced. If you wanted to tweak it make it have worse torso twist speed, but other than that it's really a tossup right now between Dire Wolf and Stalker

[Juodas Varnas]

Yeah, Direwolf is more or less fine.
Timberwolf, Stormcrow and the Hellbringer are the main troublemakers.
Timberwolf, i'd say he needs to have his agility toned down, i mean it's a 75 tonner as tough and as armed as assaults that is more agile than medium mechs, .
Stormcrow, main problem, i'd say are its hitboxes, which are more broken than those of the firestarter.
Hellbringer, the problem isn't the mech itself, the problem is the current implementation of ECM, so there's not much anyone can do about it.

My 2 cents.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 18 April 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[kapusta11]

How about NO?

[Metus regem]

I think the Timber Wolf really needs a slight, like 5-10% reduction in twist and turning speeds, meaning that if it did 100 degrees per-second, it would go down to 90-95 degrees per-second, not a huge drop, but enough. I also think the JJ animation pass did a good job. As for the Stormcrow, I think all she needs is an animation pass.

[Fate 6]

Metus regem, on 18 April 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

I think the Timber Wolf really needs a slight, like 5-10% reduction in twist and turning speeds, meaning that if it did 100 degrees per-second, it would go down to 90-95 degrees per-second, not a huge drop, but enough. I also think the JJ animation pass did a good job. As for the Stormcrow, I think all she needs is an animation pass.

^

What many have pointed out is that the Stormcrow is a strong mech but the IS mediums don't feel useless in comparison. Other than possibly the TDR, IS heavies just pale in comparison to the Timber Wolf. This is a problem with IS heavies and has been for a long time. Buff IS heavies with some decent quirks and all will be well.

[Armorine]

Fate 6, on 18 April 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

Direwolf is probably balanced. If you wanted to tweak it make it have worse torso twist speed, but other than that it's really a tossup right now between Dire Wolf and Stalker

I don't want them touching the dire wolf. It's been made clear to me in the last few days there's not much to fear from the dire. Been using a battle master 3m the last week and a half and on 3 separate occasions have soloed dire wolves 1 of those being a Dhaka wolf.. Once you get behind the dire it's game over. You'll rip him about. They can't turn to save their life. Pop one of the shoulders and they lose half their bite. They're just soooooooo big it's hard to miss what your aiming at. They're only real advantage is looooooots of guns.

Before any one says anything I do nt own any dire wolves

[Mystere]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

Since most of us agree that the DW, TW and SC at least need taken down a bit lets talk about the best way to do that and why.

You may think you and others are just following so-called "democratic" principles. But I myself see it as "tyranny of the majority".

And instead of starting another futile round of nerfs/buffs that might just go full circle like the rest of them have, why not first attack the root of the problem: borked animations, faulty hit registration, automatic near-instant pinpoint convergence, borked hit boxes, etc., etc., etc.?

Edited by Mystere, 18 April 2015 - 07:42 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

You may think you and others are just following so-called "democratic" principles. But I myself see it as "tyranny of the majority".

Amended original post to ask for ideas from those that do not agree and why etc

[Mystere]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Amended original post to ask for ideas from those that do not agree and why etc

My reasons are in the post above yours.

[El Bandito]

Armorine, on 18 April 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

The DW doesn't need to be touched. It's an easy kill already due to its Size

It might have to be touched anyway, since once Clan ACs become better (as Russ said soon), DW is gonna be even deadlier.

[Lightfoot]

@OP

Well how would you nerf the Jagermech since it's abilities are about the same as the Timberwolf, but for 10 tons less dropweight? The King Crab is better than the Direwolf because it is alot tougher. Would you make it's CT get an Armor reduction quirk?

Mostly the Clan ER laser tech is balanced by being too hot. DHS 1.4 forces a soft cap at 4 ER Meds or about 24 heat. Adding more requires 5 to 10 extra DHS to not shut down all the time.

Clan Autocannons are currently junk unless the mech is forced to carry them or a Direwolf that can boat them. This is stupid because they are only 1 to 2 tons lighter than Inner Sphere, but Clan mechs have nowhere near the payload of Inner Sphere mechs. Technically unless PGI is going to allow Engine switches on Clan mechs the Autocannons should be identical in function for purely balance reasons.

So PGI has entered into this course where they are nerfing the Clan Tech and the Clan Mech and I say it is too complex to balance anything in this way. And PGI has shown they react out of fear rather than reason in balancing. Just look at where the Summoner is after almost a year. Still left as junk from PGI's fear of making it work.

It's just my critique as a Beta Tester, but it is better to over-buff when a mech is so troubled as the Summoner. Then you can tone it down later if it actually doesn't need still more buffs from Quirks.

Anyway, if what you say is true I am waiting for the negative Quirks for Jagermechs and King Crabs for the same balancing points.

[Vandul]

I was going to do an obligatory "ECM Hellbringers are the problem" but I see the second poster already did that.

Fix animations/hit boxes. Clammers mechs are fine after that.

[kapusta11]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Amended original post to ask for ideas from those that do not agree and why etc

Explain to me then what exactly is wrong with SCR, TBR and DWF? They don't suffer from useless locked equipment, from being oversized and having bad hitboxes or from lack of hardpoints, is that a problem? Is that what you want to "fix". And who are these "most" you're talking about? No one asked me and I'm pretty sure the real "most" don't even visit forums regularly if at all.

Edited by kapusta11, 18 April 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Vandul, on 18 April 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

I was going to do an obligatory "ECM Hellbringers are the problem" but I see the second poster already did that.

Fix animations/hit boxes. Clammers mechs are fine after that.

I'll see your ECM Hellbringer and raise you an ECM Atlas. There is no difference. The Atlas is the toughest mech in the game.

Edited by Lightfoot, 18 April 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Vandul, on 18 April 2015 - 07:46 AM, said:

I was going to do an obligatory "ECM Hellbringers are the problem" but I see the second poster already did that.

Fix animations/hit boxes. Clammers mechs are fine after that.

I'd agree with this.

I feel they should go over most of the mechs and rebalance/re-do the hitboxes, because a LOT of mech hitboxes need adjustments. Some are godlike (Stormcrow, Firestarter, etc), some are absolute garbage (Catapult, Jenner, etc)

[Vandul]

Lightfoot, on 18 April 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

I'll see your ECM Hellbringer and raise you an ECM Atlas. There is no difference. The Atlas is the toughest mech in the game.

Really, you went there?

Edited by Vandul, 18 April 2015 - 07:57 AM.

[Summon3r]

XX Sulla XX, on 18 April 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

Since most of us agree that the DW, TW and SC at least need taken down a bit lets talk about the best way to do that and why. Also if you do not agree they need nerfed explain why. Thanks!

DWF needs absolutely no nerfing what so ever, i dont even get why its put into these threads? cause people dont like the dakka build im assuming? the dakka build isnt even "good" with the state of cUAC's. 2guass 2erppc? KGC does this just as well actually better with the highest E mounts and ballistic quirks whilst the DWF take a E cooldown penalty and all low mounted weapons.

TBR, SCR? hmmm well what about dragon, stalker, t-bolt, wolverine?

personally i think these threads need to stop, i think its more a case of lasers being in general the only really mountable weapon other then guass... cUAC's are a joke, LBX is a joke, erppc is a joke.... so u get everyone running "put your mouse cursor on target" builds (laser vomit boringness)

[Sable]

Wait who said most of us agree that those me hs need to be taken down? The direwolf is already limited on its mobility. Just play a crab with iTs awesome torso twist or a warhawk with its speed. I kilL direwolves regularly with both those mechs. The timberwolf is exactly where its supposed to be at, its just the sweet spot tonnage for clans. The storm crow is just good at what it does but with limited options for clan mechs this is the majority of what you see. When wave iii is out expect to see a lot more variety. But i'm suRe you will whine just the same

Edited by Sable, 18 April 2015 - 08:02 AM.