82 replies to this topic

[Nik Reaper]

Gallowglas, on 18 April 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

Agreed. I just wish it was more competitive.

Well, eventually we will have IS streak 6 and MRM 30 ... I think you see where I'm going with this

Also with 30+ tons of pod space and right centric dual gauss build and some ErMlas seems like a logical build for it , and it will rock that build well.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 18 April 2015 - 10:34 PM.

[Hit the Deck]

Why do PGI sometimes not make the 3D models to exactly look like the 2D concept arts? It always ends up worse looking (the 3D models). Also in this case.

[kapusta11]

3D modelers at PGI obviously lack sense of proportion. Legs too long (compared to the concept art, the original ones on sarna and MW4 looks too weird and poorly animated still), torso is not flat enough and lack some volume.

Edited by kapusta11, 19 April 2015 - 05:50 AM.

[Senor Cataclysmo]

I think it looks great.

The old squat cauldron born looks awful in every piece of art its in, and so does the miniature. It looks like it wouldn't even be able to walk properly. I was really hoping they wouldn't go that way and Im glad they didnt.

The legs and posture are much nicer than the timberwolf and vulture's super chunky legs and stand-up-straight poses. I'm happy with it. Also, as has been pointed out, the MW4 cauldron wasn't squat and it looked fine.

[Sorbic]

Hit the Deck, on 19 April 2015 - 01:04 AM, said:

Why do PGI sometimes not make the 3D models to exactly look like the 2D concept arts? It always ends up worse looking (the 3D models). Also in this case.

The key part here is "concept art". I mean we should all know how concept art works... The biggest difference I see is in the legs which are now taller but thinner. The concept art already had the arm hardpoints below the cockpit they've just dipped it a bit more. That said I was leaning towards purchasing it but I'm thinking I'll wait and see if they shorten the legs and how the polished model looks. I mean I'm sure the mech will still be competitive enough but my lust for it was purely cosmetic.

[NRP]

Well, I'm on the other side of the fence from the "art critics" and armchair 3D modelers. I think this mech looks badass. I'd buy the $90 pack right now, except I don't know if the 45 tonner will be viable. I may just a la carte the arctic cheater and this one.

[Sjorpha]

I think it looks great actually, good job.

[Zordicron]

Shorten the arms a little, or raise the angle slightly.
Shave the top of that cube off where the legs mount, will bring the torso down some and make it a little more compact.
Shorten the shins, IMO they should be roughly the same length as the upper legs.
Remove pig nose dots from front of CT, replace with vent, or lines, or something.

I do like how moving the upper torso forward in first page example made the torso appear longer without actually making it longer.

[Burktross]

I'm not so worried. They'll probably super bend the legs.

[Toothless]

This type of thread has historically done absolutely nothing.

Edited by ZacharyJ, 19 April 2015 - 07:42 AM.

[El Bandito]

NRP, on 19 April 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Well, I'm on the other side of the fence from the "art critics" and armchair 3D modelers. I think this mech looks badass. I'd buy the $90 pack right now, except I don't know if the 45 tonner will be viable. I may just a la carte the arctic cheater and this one.

A la carting the Arctic Cheater and the C-Born will cost you $100 and give you 2 chassis. Buying the C-Born pack will cost you $90 and give you three chassis + bonus goodies. I would reconsider if I were you.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 April 2015 - 07:49 AM.

[Tennex]

Those thighs could each house its own cockpit

Getting all voltron up inhere

Edited by Tennex, 19 April 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[Bloodweaver]

Burktross, on 19 April 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

I'm not so worried. They'll probably super bend the legs.

[1453 R]

Bloodweaver, on 18 April 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Both arms' hardpoints are well below cockpit level in the game model, as opposed to the concept art. The angle at which the arm struts angle down from the torso junction has been significantly increased.

The Cauldron-Born's arms aren't really any farther beneath its cockpit than the Stormcrow's are, and I don't know anybody who has trouble grounding shots with the Stormcrow's arm guns Once in a while you don't quite corner-peak enough or you hit a bit of invisible wall, but it's nothing compared to, say...Cataphracts. Now I agree that the juts on those arms could be shortened up a good bit, pull the arms closer in to the body, but that wouldn't significantly raise the hardpoints. Would mostly just tighten the whole frame up a bit at a distance and also make them look a bit less flimsy.

Bloodweaver, on 18 April 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Yes, you are. That design was unique to Mechwarrior 4, which had a lot of really shoddy re-designs for classic 'Mechs. That being said, their re-design of the Cauldron Born was alright.

I'ma be honest here - the MW4 Cauldron-Born, if that's what the MW4 Cauldron-Born looks like, is hideous. Hideous. Like I can't figure out how any sort of animation job or camouflaging would salvage that incredibly awful design. Yes yes, I get it, it's short and Cauldron-Borns are supposed to be short. Yeah, the MWO model could do with a good 25% less shin and a deeper stance. Maybe that's why they previewed the model? Get a few opinions on it and see what people thought?

That said, it's never going to be as short and deep as the TT Cauldron-Born is, because the TT Cauldron Born and all related art is one of those bizarre TT half-height things with no torso twist that Piranha can't/won't do. Let go of that dream right now. Besides which, short isn't really as much of an advantage in MWO as people think. Narrow is an advantage, especially in the brawl, but short doesn't provide a huge amount of benefit to one's targeting silhouette once one is out from behind cover.

Now yes, the Cauldron-Born is wide in total - but most of that wideness comes from its gangly-ass arm juts hanging out a parsec off each side. The arm guns themselves are pretty narrow (frontally, anyways), and the torso doesn't really look any wider than a Timber Wolf in total. No, it doesn't have optimal geometry for up-your-nose brawling, but that hardly matters when it does have pretty much spot-on perfect geometry for hillhumper distance fighting.

And frankly? Not many 'Mechs really have 'optimal' geometry for brawling anyways. I'm honestly not sure there is such a thing. Regardless, my offer still stands - I'll take any/all Cauldron-Borns you guys don't want.

[Wintersdark]

NRP, on 19 April 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Well, I'm on the other side of the fence from the "art critics" and armchair 3D modelers. I think this mech looks badass. I'd buy the $90 pack right now, except I don't know if the 45 tonner will be viable. I may just a la carte the arctic cheater and this one.

A la carte for two mechs costs more than a pack for the first three ($100 vs. $90), and the pack has more bonus value. The only time you'd get two a la carte and save money would be if you only wanted the Gladiator and Cauldron Born.

Edited by Wintersdark, 19 April 2015 - 08:48 AM.

[Wintersdark]

1453 R, on 19 April 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

That said, it's never going to be as short and deep as the TT Cauldron-Born is, because the TT Cauldron Born and all related art is one of those bizarre TT half-height things with no torso twist that Piranha can't/won't do. Let go of that dream right now. Besides which, short isn't really as much of an advantage in MWO as people think. Narrow is an advantage, especially in the brawl, but short doesn't provide a huge amount of benefit to one's targeting silhouette once one is out from behind cover.

I've been saying this since the Shadowhawk.

Height isn't a problem - nobody misses you by firing over your head, nobody ever. It DOES make you a slightly larger target which means some cover is less effective for you, but at the same time it allows you to fire more effectively over other cover. It's really a mixed bag at worst. Personally, I prefer height that gets all my hardpoints further off the ground.

There's "Nova" complaints with this, but I think those are absurd. This has wide arms too, which isn't good, but at least they aren't dragging on the ground and easily blocked by everything. And those shoulders... height + high shoulder hardpoints are what made the Shadowhawk so damn awesome. This gets +10t and lighter weapons to boot.

Quote

Now yes, the Cauldron-Born is wide in total - but most of that wideness comes from its gangly-ass arm juts hanging out a parsec off each side. The arm guns themselves are pretty narrow (frontally, anyways), and the torso doesn't really look any wider than a Timber Wolf in total. No, it doesn't have optimal geometry for up-your-nose brawling, but that hardly matters when it does have pretty much spot-on perfect geometry for hillhumper distance fighting.

It'll be absurdly good at range. Twisting will have a Dragon/Crab/Catapult/Timberwolf still side torso vulnerability, but it's head on silouette is surprisingly slight. Means more damage will be lost to spray between arm/torso and, and more spread between the torsos which will (must, given the fairly narrow profile) be rather thin.

In a tight brawl, it'll be more vulnerable, but at range? That's not a bad profile at all.

Quote

And frankly? Not many 'Mechs really have 'optimal' geometry for brawling anyways. I'm honestly not sure there is such a thing. Regardless, my offer still stands - I'll take any/all Cauldron-Borns you guys don't want.

Gotta say, I'm in no way concerned. It's both sexah and has pretty decent overall geometry for smashing stompy robots. That's what I care most about.

[Wintersdark]

ZacharyJ, on 19 April 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

This type of thread has historically done absolutely nothing.

Not ever. I've never seen model changes as a result of forum complaints. Not even tiny, simple ones (like, for example, the "Special Geometry" for the Phoenix edition Locust having an extra luggage rack right in front of it's cockpit obscuring vision. If they won't change that they aren't going to rescale legs.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 19 April 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

Height isn't a problem - nobody misses you by firing over your head, nobody ever. It DOES make you a slightly larger target which means some cover is less effective for you, but at the same time it allows you to fire more effectively over other cover. It's really a mixed bag at worst. Personally, I prefer height that gets all my hardpoints further off the ground.

Have you met the Trebuchet?

Despite the Vindicator being the worst Medium, the Trebuchet is not far behind (even the Kintaro has a role.. the Trebuchet? lol no).

Mind you, I have this personal love-hate relationship with the 5J, but the Trebuchet is generally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things (Enforcer is more or less superior to the Trebuchet-7K if you don't need missile hardpoints).

Edited by Deathlike, 19 April 2015 - 09:07 AM.

[Bloodweaver]

1453 R, on 19 April 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

The Cauldron-Born's arms aren't really any farther beneath its cockpit than the Stormcrow's are.... Now I agree that the juts on those arms could be shortened up a good bit, pull the arms closer in to the body, but that wouldn't significantly raise the hardpoints. Would mostly just tighten the whole frame up a bit at a distance and also make them look a bit less flimsy.

What you had originally said, and what I corrected you for saying, is that the CB has no hardpoints below chin-height. In the concept art, this is true. In the in-game model, this is obviously not true at all, as the arms have been lowered significantly. It's a pretty visible deviation. As for changing the arms, raising the angle at which the upper-arm struts jut out from the torso would be a better fix than simply shortening the struts.

1453 R, on 19 April 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

I'ma be honest here - the MW4 Cauldron-Born, if that's what the MW4 Cauldron-Born looks like, is hideous. Hideous. Like I can't figure out how any sort of animation job or camouflaging would salvage that incredibly awful design.

I didn't care for it myself, but it was still a much better redesign than some of the other MW4 redesigns. Kodiak, Executioner, Adder... All terrible. Even the OK-looking 'Mechs looked more like giant Tonka Toys than war machines. The CB redesign, for me at least, was along the lines of the Vulture redesign. Not very much like the original 'Mech at all, but at least not horrible on its own merits.

1453 R, on 19 April 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

Yeah, the MWO model could do with a good 25% less shin and a deeper stance. Maybe that's why they previewed the model? Get a few opinions on it and see what people thought?

If only this were true PGI would have a much bigger piece of my heart in that case. But they've repeatedly ignored suggestions of this sort. Don't get your hopes up. The only intent of the preview is to get the players excited, and maybe convince a few more to pre-order the CB before it comes out. That's it. "Feedback not required" is PGI's mantra.

1453 R, on 19 April 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

That said, it's never going to be as short and deep as the TT Cauldron-Born is, because the TT Cauldron Born and all related art is one of those bizarre TT half-height things with no torso twist that Piranha can't/won't do. Let go of that dream right now.

I have seen exactly ZERO people ask for an exact replica of the TT model of the CB. Let go of that misdirection right now. The only thing I've seen people here asking for in regards to changes to the CB model, is to bring it more in line with the ideas behind the TT model. Not to replicate it. Don't straw-man.

1453 R, on 19 April 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

Besides which, short isn't really as much of an advantage in MWO as people think. Narrow is an advantage, especially in the brawl, but short doesn't provide a huge amount of benefit to one's targeting silhouette once one is out from behind cover.

But nobody wants the CB to be shorter because it'd be an advantage. Well, perhaps some do. But reading the comments here makes it clear that most people want the CB to be shorter because that's what it's supposed to be, not because of any perceived advantage it would receive.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 19 April 2015 - 09:17 AM.

[Bloodweaver]

Deathlike, on 19 April 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

Have you met the Trebuchet?

Despite the Vindicator being the worst Medium, the Trebuchet is not far behind (even the Kintaro has a role.. the Trebuchet? lol no).

Mind you, I have this personal love-hate relationship with the 5J, but the Trebuchet is generally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things (Enforcer is more or less superior to the Trebuchet-7K if you don't need missile hardpoints).

Honestly, the Trebuchet wouldn't be so fragile if it weren't so WIDE. Its height doesn't help, but it's really the enormous billboard STs and paddle-arms that make it as weak as it is. Were it to be made thinner, its durability would increase noticeably. This, of course, is the same issue that plagues 90% of MWO's in-game models...