401 replies to this topic

[Zeece]

Tossed up on the Reddit Boards for comment. Easy Link for you Tina

http://www.reddit.co...avorite_tina_b/

[Koniks]

The ON1-VA and GRF-3M are examples of quirks done mostly right. They're not overpowered and they'd be effective if it wasn't for the mid-range laser vomit being overpowered and other mechs being overquirked. They do have 2 mistakes that should be fixed. The ON1-VA needs missile range swapped for velocity, spread, or heat generation. The GRF-3M needs a generic energy quirk instead of an ERPPC velocity quirk.

The Summoner quirks are an example of not fully addressing what prevents a mech from being viable. Mobility and armor quirks are nice but only go so far. The mech's just extremely limited by both its hardpoints and available tonnage.
-Torso MG quirks on it need to be swapped out for generic or other ballistics. Putting the good ballistic quirks on the LA did no good except for mildly improving the Gauss torso + RA ERPPC build.

-SRM spread needs to be scaled up because the hardpoints are so spread out. Even Artemis doesn't help and comes at the cost of ammo or other equipment. An ammo/ton quirk would help either here, with ballistics, or both.

-With only 4 energy hardpoints, the heat generation and cooldown quirks need to be bigger.

Edited by Mizeur, 21 April 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[Apnu]

In general: Quirks that don't match the mech.

Trebuchet Loup De Guerre... has only two energy hard points but has four energy quirks. It has 4 missile hard points but only 2 missile quirks. It seems backwards. Sure the SRM4 quirks from the first pass made it a OP beast, but the decision to swap them out for MPL quirks doesn't make sense.

The Treb 5N also, has to be one of the worst 50 ton mechs, maybe one of the worst IS mechs in the game right now. The first quirk pass it was a LRM god, it was almost unfair, then the quirks got changed to make it terrible. The Trebs are, generally, missile based mechs. They have some of the biggest tube counts of the mediums, they're meant to run LRMs, but the best quirks for the TBT-5N are energy based. What gives?

But then you have the TBT-7M which has a combined 40% cooldown quirk for LRM15s, 20% heat reduction for LRM15s and 50% NARC range?

So the TBT-5N has a general 10% cooldown quirk for missiles, but the TBT-7M gets 20% in general and 20% more for LRM15s.

The Trebs are wildly different in terms of quirks, and they are either feast or famine quirks.

But looking at the Hunchbacks, they all have excellent quirks for each variant to specialize in something. (Grid Iron and the Gauss, 4G and the AC20, 4P and the medium lasers etc, ect.)

I see hunchies all the time and I see a good variety of them in matches. Trebs, not so much, and when I do its always the 7M boating LRM15s.

In closing, quirks should give us players a reason to take any mech. What we have not is a class of mechs with very generous quirks and others with incompateable or stingy quirks. So the choice of what mech to take, in terms of quirks, is take away from us. I have no real reason to take a TBT-5N over a TBT-7M, the 7M is superior in every way.

[--Saint--]

Right off the top of my head I`d say the quirk on the Sparky (Griffin Hero Mech) for the PPC, giving it 20% more speed is okish but its kinda bland when you compare it to the Cicada (3C i think it is) that get -25% heat generation and faster shot quirks for the ER PPC

[Koniks]

JagdFlanker, on 20 April 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

weapon quirks are too specific - they should offer some flexibility so you can take into account a players style. having a buff quirk the ERPPC but not the PPC, or the SRM4 but not the SRM2 is just strange. i think quirks should benefit an entire class of weapon, not a specific weapon so get rid the the '2 tier' quirks where a specific weapon has x% quirk, while other weapons in the same class have half x% quirk

I disagree with this argument. Available hardpoints, crit slots, and tonnage determine the optimal build for a mech. Quirking towards those builds to establish a mech's role is a good idea. Diverse playstyles can be accommodated through differentiating the quirks on the other variants of a chassis.

It's not like we're hurting for mech options at this point.

[Spunkmeyer]

I dislike the fact that many quirks were rolled back on Pass#2 [see Battlemaster, Wolverine, and Locust 3M nerfs]. Wish Shadowhawks had more specific quirks to make them relevant again [just for fun, SHD-2D2 AC/2 quirks? Only three mech variants in the entire game have AC/2 quirks applied...]

[rangergord]

Apnu, on 21 April 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

In general: Quirks that don't match the mech.

The Treb 5N also, has to be one of the worst 50 ton mechs, maybe one of the worst IS mechs in the game right now. The first quirk pass it was a LRM god, it was almost unfair, then the quirks got changed to make it terrible. The Trebs are, generally, missile based mechs. They have some of the biggest tube counts of the mediums, they're meant to run LRMs, but the best quirks for the TBT-5N are energy based. What gives?

But then you have the TBT-7M which has a combined 40% cooldown quirk for LRM15s, 20% heat reduction for LRM15s and 50% NARC range?

So the TBT-5N has a general 10% cooldown quirk for missiles, but the TBT-7M gets 20% in general and 20% more for LRM15s.

I have no real reason to take a TBT-5N over a TBT-7M, the 7M is superior in every way.

Comes back to variety. Originally the 5N, 7M, and 3C were functionally identical with the LRM15 quirks and there was no reason to own more than one of them. The best route would have been to give the 7M SRM quirks, but then it would have been a c-bill variant competing against the hero and both the hero and champion would have been SRM quirked (bad for an eventual mastery pack).

[Hawk819]

I forgot: my least favorite - Clan Cooldown for Laser Weapons. I can understand the ER PPC and Heat Generation Quirks, but the others are just plain dumb.

[x4vn]

Personally I dislike pretty much any quirks that force a mech into a one trick pony, the problem here is that quirks are currently split 50% generic 50% specific (ie 7.5% ballistic range, 7.5% AC5 range, for a total of 15% for AC5's).

I think we'd see a wider range of builds on mechs with strong quirks if this weighting was changed to a 66/33 or even a 75/25 split, you'd still be able to focus the quirks on lore and stock loadouts without forcing one trick ponies or quirks so large they distort the game.

For example instead of 15% faster cooldown Ballistic, 15% faster cooldown AC5's instead do 20% faster cooldown Ballistic, 10% faster cooldown AC5's, suddenly the AC5's keep the same quirks but a uAC or AC20 build gets a better buff allowing for greater diversity.

Personally I'd go so far to suggest instead off a 15%general / 15%specific quirk a 22.5%general / 7.5%specific split.

Or maybe with the new weapon families replacing a 15% energy cooldown, 15% Medium pulse laser cooldown with:
20% energy cooldown,
5% pulse laser family cooldown,
5% medium pulse laser cooldown.

Not only does this allow for more divergence in 'good builds' but also reduces the systemic encouragement of boated weapons.

Edited by x4vn, 21 April 2015 - 10:09 AM.

[Vashramire]

Of the mechs I own Grasshoppers just all feel the same yet I have 3 of them. Just so bland. The 5N has PPC heat redux but no velocity buff. It would probably be better if they had more generic quirks than the ones they have. ER L on the 5J makes it pretty hot and the 5H is just a more armored and less damaging HBK-4P. The 5H & 5J need to have something in the way of missile quirks to really justify putting anything there instead of just getting more heatsinks unless you are out of crit slots.

[Thunderchickenz]

Hmm.. there are a lot of eyerolling useless quirks (basically anything that pushes towards stock build loadouts)

Worst 3:
-BJ-1DC - AC2 is a bad weapon at the best of times, having 2 BJ with AC2 quirks is silly. Bring back the AC5 quirks so at least one of them can be useful
-UM-R60L - AC20 quirks are useless because you can't fit an AC20 on a remotely decent build. Good for lulz but that's it
-ILYA - AC5 quirks are not good enough to make it a worthwhile choice vs. the UAC5 builds, so they're wasted

[ZenFool]

I'm sorry, I can't point to three quirks that I dislike the most.There are dozens of mechs that have been left in the dust. Many of the old tier one mechs are languishing in mech bays because of over quirked mechs.

When is the last time you saw a shadowhawk? How about any Dragon variant other than the 1N? Anyone running around with non ecm Atlas? The list goes on.
On the clan side...Well... Some mechs will never see the light of day.

I guess what it comes down to is what are you trying to accomplish with quirks? Originally it was supposed to bring underperforming mechs up to at least playable, but it seems that all you have done is create a new tier one.

Something I would like to point out is the way it was in lore. IS mechs had different variants that did different things and were difficult to change. Clan mech omnipods allowed for greater variety.

I don't mind the weapon specific quirks for IS, so long as they make sense. What I would like to see from clan quirks is something more general, so that they can benefit from their adaptability. Overall I would like to see much greater variety in mechs for the IS and much greater weapon diversity among the clans.

[Bolide]

I am also not a fan of any of the quirks that give more than a 25% total bonus to a mech. Just means something is broken. A 20% bonus should be rare, reserved for a very underpowered mech. Large generic bonuses should be reserved for mechs with few hardpoints for their class, it will help make them more adaptive, compared to their more specific counterparts.

Jam Chance/Missle Spread/Laser Duration/Shot Velocity is the way to go.

Maybe some cooling perks or slight ROF advantages for chassis with many of one weapon by default.

Having a mech fire one weapon 25-40% faster is just broken, especially when combined with cooling quirks and modules.

Additional Armor/Structure? Nope. Maybe for mechs with huge legs or useless arms but should not be more then a 25% bonus tops.

As others have said, if a weapon needs quirks to be viable maybe the base stats need to be looked at, not giving quirks to a few mechs.

Please keep the flavor of each chassis. If the awesome 8Q has generic energy quirks that makes sense. Specific PPC quirks, great! Pulse laser quirks -no! Maybe generic quirks should apply to all variants of a mech, and specific ones for each variant.

Quirks should be a nice bonus, not a mandatory crutch for mechs, and not something to help balance mech vs mech. It's just masking the real problems and making fewer and fewer mechs playable. Just look at the builds that dominate CW to see what needs fixing.

[Havyek]

My least favourite quirk is any quirk that's on a 'Mech.

Certain weapons shouldn't only be viable unless quirked X amount.
Certain 'Mechs shouldn't be be useless unless running Y weapon.

[Apnu]

rangergord, on 21 April 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

Comes back to variety. Originally the 5N, 7M, and 3C were functionally identical with the LRM15 quirks and there was no reason to own more than one of them. The best route would have been to give the 7M SRM quirks, but then it would have been a c-bill variant competing against the hero and both the hero and champion would have been SRM quirked (bad for an eventual mastery pack).

Still doesn't make sense. The 7M has great quirks for missiles even if you skip the LRM15. There is no reason, if you're running any amount of LRMs or SRMs to ever take a 5N because of that. So variety is killed because the only TBT of worth for missiles is the 7M and that's pretty much with the LRM15.

They should make the c-bill TBTs that are missile centric mostly the same in quirks. Then the player can choose which missile boat they want based off hard points.

For example the TBT-5N can take 2 LRM15s, 3 medium lasers and TAG. The 7M can take 3 missile, and 3 energy. So as a player I have to choose, do I want an extra energy slot or an extra missile slot? Mabye I want to go 3xLRM10s, 2 MLs, and TAG on the 7M.

See? there's variety. No need to put quirks on mechs that make no sense and invalidate what the mech's role on the battlefield is.

[pvtjamesr]

1. Highlander 733c: Would like to see more heat quirks and a jump jet buff. Not for poptarting, I hate that, but for maneuverability (can jump higher but still has a slow liftoff speed).

2. Centurion AL: I would really like to see the LPL quirks back instead of the LL quirks.

3. Grid Iron: It has a HAG in its shoulder.......it shouldn't have a HAG...

Edited by pvtjamesr, 21 April 2015 - 12:24 PM.

[BladeSplint]

Ever since the quirks have come out, average TTK is down across the board. Instead of quirking bad mechs upward, you should add negative quirks on the ones that are above average.

[Nerdboard]

My least favourite quirks are the strong ones which focus on boating.

A prime example would be the Thunderbolt 5SS Medium Pulse Laser tweaks. They seem excessive to me.

[PremithiumX]

Quirks should favor a mech's stock loadouts, not seemingly random systems.

[Darwins Dog]

The CDA-3C comes to mind for both actually. A 40 ton mech with 4 ballistic hardpoints is limited to MGs or AC/2s in order to fill them. The ballistic cooldown of 12.5% does nothing for the MGs, and is of little help to the AC/2 (shaves off 0.09 seconds).

The ERPPC quirks on the other hand are ungodly. The only reason no one complains about the mech is because it can only take 1.

In general I like PPC/ERPPC velocity quirks that are in the 50% range. It really makes them feel like you are shooting lightning.

For mechs that are limited to MGs (lights/mediums with multiple ballistics) the quirks need to be really good. RoF on the urbie is a good start, but crit chance might also be good. I would also like to see bigger range bonuses for MGs. This is a case where they should be lopsided, so give them 10% ballistic range and an additional 40% for MG range. You don't want people to to abuse it with ACs. Small range buffs aren't enough to make the MGs worth taking, but there are a lot of mechs that are basically restricted to them.

EDIT:

PremithiumX, on 21 April 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Quirks should favor a mech's stock loadouts, not seemingly random systems.

I agree with this for almost all mechs (and for the most part they follow that), but there are a few exceptions. The CDA-2B has a nearly identical loadout to the 2A, so they need something to make them different. Similarly the BJ-1 and BJ-1DC differ by exchanging JJ for SL. AS7-D and AS7-DDC are nearly identical.

Edited by Darwins Dog, 21 April 2015 - 01:57 PM.