217 replies to this topic

[grendeldog]

Are you kidding? PGI is about to hand over the keys to the most ridiculously awesome laser-puke death-boat yet seen in the game... and you're complaining because they attempted to put at least some sort of a tradeoff on it to balance the massive advantage those above-cockpit mounts provide?

I think it would be fun as all get out to tool around in my Stormcrow at 130+ kph, but I would never advocate doing such a thing in game; breaking the game for my benefit while making it less fun for other people ultimately results in it being less fun for me, because fewer people will be playing it, or because everybody would play that SCR variant and nothing else, demolishing any semblance of variety in mech choice. And that's looking at it only from a purely self-oriented viewpoint of what I would get out of such a change.

I'm not one of the people who claims clans are OP, nor am I the type to say they are underpowered. I think frankly that they're pretty well balanced with the IS - the problem is more that there are only a few really viable clan builds in competitive play. So in other words I think the clans and the IS are balanced between one another, but that the clan mechs are unbalanced relative to other clan mechs, resulting in the TBR/SCR/HBR mafia we have today. And this will only increase that for the Timbers.

Seriously, for clan players PGI is doing something totally awesome. Enjoy it, don't whine about it!

[Ultimax]

MischiefSC, on 20 April 2015 - 07:45 PM, said:

You could go with 3xLPLs, 4xERSML and 21DHS. You'd go without JJs but that would run very cool.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...34f2ba5472bddd2

Add 1x CLPL and 1x CERMLAS to that LT.

That's a -1 CERMLAS Laser Vomit.


Key point is that the S-CT allows for a JJ that you can't lose when you sacrifice the RT/RA.

47 point alpha if you can side poke, otherwise you hill poke with the 2x CLPLs and the CERMLAS when it makes sense.


26 DHS.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 20 April 2015 - 08:08 PM.

[Fate 6]

CantHandletheTruth, on 20 April 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

In otherwords, you got nothing Mr.High and Mighty.




Waste of money detected, its not that much better than the Timbers we have now.

.....with a LOT of penalty to go with it.

It's SIGNIFICANTLY better than what we have now considering they are the highest mounted weapons it can have and it gets THREE of them. And those penalties are small to nonexistent. The agility ones aren't noticeable and the burn/cooldown really only affects you in long range DPS fights on cold maps (so basically not much). Sure you might spread a bit more damage, but you should also be getting in more and better trades. Additionally, while having a longer cooldown might be annoying, it also means you effectively run cooler because you can't fire as often. Beam duration also means you have more time to dissipate heat. This pod isn't about DPS it's about being a god of trading and in that sense it will be more than worth the minor negative quirks.

[Lightfoot]

PGI, you are over-nerfing Clan Tech and over-buffing some Inner Sphere mechs. It's ruining CW. You check and see what's going on.

Lower the Heat of the Clan weapons back to TT values if you are targeting the few good Clan mechs with heavy heat nerfs.

[Mystere]

All I see is lots and lots of

[Bishop Steiner]

CantHandletheTruth, on 20 April 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

In otherwords, you got nothing Mr.High and Mighty.




Waste of money detected, its not that much better than the Timbers we have now.

.....with a LOT of penalty to go with it.

Lol. So far posted a lot more actual SENSIBLE arguments than you. The fact your posts show you reside in the underhive is just a byproduct of that.

[Fate 6]

Lightfoot, on 20 April 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

PGI, you are over-nerfing Clan Tech and over-buffing some Inner Sphere mechs. It's ruining CW. You check and see what's going on.

Lower the Heat of the Clan weapons back to TT values if you are targeting the few good Clan mechs with heavy heat nerfs.

They did check. In the last event Clans won 53% of games. Clan mechs are currently still better in CW. Buffing the Timber Wolf or Storm Crow won't balance the game. If you want buffs to Clan mechs then go fight for something that actually needs help (Summoner, Badder, etc)

[Navid A1]

grendeldog, on 20 April 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Are you kidding? PGI is about to hand over the keys to the most ridiculously awesome laser-puke death-boat yet seen in the game... and you're complaining because they attempted to put at least some sort of a tradeoff on it to balance the massive advantage those above-cockpit mounts provide?
...

Why are you so scared?... ridiculously awesome laser-puke death-boat?...
Timbers fall like any other mech... its just more punishing if you play lazy against one.
High mounts are an advantage... but not a massive one. Massive advantage is when the good hardpoints and cockpit are BOTH high up. It has its negative agility quirks (probably more coming even)


Granted, timbers are very capable mechs but remember that clan-tech in MWO is a bad joke right now... only because the most iconic clan mech in BT happens to be a very good one.
A lot of elite pilots wanted to pilot an iconic mech... Therefore: Elite pilot + Good Mech = salt... ultimately leading to all these clams OP whines.

[Bishop Steiner]

Navid A1, on 20 April 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

Why are you so scared?... ridiculously awesome laser-puke death-boat?...
Timbers fall like any other mech... its just more punishing if you play lazy against one.
High mounts are an advantage... but not a massive one. Massive advantage is when the good hardpoints and cockpit are BOTH high up. It has its negative agility quirks (probably more coming even)


Granted, timbers are very capable mechs but remember that clan-tech in MWO is a bad joke right now... only because the most iconic clan mech in BT happens to be a very good one.
A lot of elite pilots wanted to pilot an iconic mech... Therefore: Elite pilot + Good Mech = salt... ultimately leading to all these clams OP whines.

as noted in my pics on the last page, the cockpit is actually pretty bloody high.

[Fate 6]

Navid A1, on 20 April 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

ridiculously awesome laser-puke death-boat?

Timbers fall like any other mech...

its just more punishing if you play lazy against one.

High mounts are an advantage... but not a massive one.

Massive advantage is when the good hardpoints and cockpit are BOTH high up.

It has its negative agility quirks


Granted, timbers are very capable mechs but remember that clan-tech in MWO is a bad joke right now

A lot of elite pilots wanted to pilot an iconic mech

Yes, it is ridiculously good at shooting things, that's the point we're making.

No they don't, they are much harder to kill because of agility/armor/hitboxes.

Yes, they are more punishing to play against regardless of if you are lazy or not. That's a sign of being a better mech.

The difference between the Stalker and the Warhawk is that the Warhawk has low mounts and bad hitboxes. That difference is the difference between Tier 1 and rarely seen. Regardless of how big of an advantage you claim it to be (it is huge btw), it's still an advantage like you say.

Timber cockpit in relation to the shoulder mount is about even with Stalker cockpit and arm mounts, meaning it is relatively high.

Barely any, and they will have hardly any effect (reverse speed doesn't affect poking at all because you never reach max reverse speed while poking).

If people could put Clan tech on IS mechs right now they would because it is better, period. The current meta of alpha strike poking with lasers is because of Clan mechs not because of Inner Sphere mechs.

A lot of elite pilots also want to pilot the best mech, and right now the Timber Wolf is literally the best mech.

[War Dogz]

Quote

Fate 6
Posted Today, 09:35 PM


They did check. In the last event Clans won 53% of games. Clan mechs are currently still better in CW. Buffing the Timber Wolf or Storm Crow won't balance the game. If you want buffs to Clan mechs then go fight for something that actually needs help (Summoner, Badder, etc)

You know that 53% is only 6 more games per 100 won by the Clans.Which could be cause by numerous reason`s I.E new player, Trial mechs, Rage quitting Etc etc etc. Which means 3% adjustment or 3 games is called 50/50 balance.

While I am pretty sure over 95% of the clan mech used during that event was TW and SC what are called the best mech in the game and only managed 6% higher win rate over how many different chassis types does the IS use in CW I lost count.

Edited by War Dogz, 20 April 2015 - 09:07 PM.

[luxebo]

Why not have PGI give Clanners this mech? ECM, Hoverjets, PPC dong units, way higher mounted ballistics energy and can still LRM60 too, and we'll just give it absolutely broken JJ animation too. Let's also give Stormcrow JJs, make Dire Wolf a land air mech, and give them Blood Asp turrets for all their bases in CW too.

Then Clanners will complain about how the Metatinator isn't meta enough and how melee is it's weakness, so we'll give it extremely far Chun Li Street Fighter kicking legs. Especially since you can 360 no scope jump while kicking rapidly. Don't worry, we'll give your Locust a 0.5% less extra AC20 heat generation. On the 3M cause why not.

Clanners... just accept your TBR-A. You got a clear win on this with your godly mechs given a should hardpoint. Not one, but THREE. Our Thunderbolt only has two. Our Stalker has 4, but apparently we need Stalkers, which are 10 more tons than your Timber, to evenly match if not lose to your Timbers. The hell are you complaining for guys? Just sit back and get some paychecks and instantly pay to win. You should be able to win 100% of your matches now. And PGI is gonna release you a free Metatinator after you buy a TBR-A. Enjoy.

[One Medic Army]

War Dogz, on 20 April 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

You know that 53% is only 6 more games per 100 won by the Clans.Which could be cause by numerous reason`s I.E new player, Trial mechs, Rage quitting Etc etc etc. Which means 3% adjustment or 3 games is called 50/50 balance.

While I am pretty sure over 95% of the clan mech used during that event was TW and SC what are called the best mech in the game and only managed 6% higher win rate over how many different chassis types does the IS use in CW I lost count.

Funny, because I saw lots and lots of terrabad clan trials everywhere.

[CantHandletheTruth]

grendeldog, on 20 April 2015 - 08:01 PM, said:

Are you kidding? PGI is about to hand over the keys to the most ridiculously awesome laser-puke death-boat yet seen in the game...

We already have Stalkers, and Thunderbolts, and Wolverines, and (arguably) Banshees and Grashoppers.

Again, the standard 2 LPL 4 ermlas TImber can barely cool itself, what are you going to do with three extra hardpoints OTHER than sword and board.

.....No one has answered that.

War Dogz, on 20 April 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

While I am pretty sure over 95% of the clan mech used during that event was TW and SC what are called the best mech in the game and only managed 6% higher win rate over how many different chassis types does the IS use in CW I lost count.

No it was an eye searing assortment of LRM clan trials, I literally had IMCOMING MISSILE burned into my retinas for the next week.

luxebo, on 20 April 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

Clanners... just accept your TBR-A. You got a clear win on this with your godly mechs given a should hardpoint. Not one, but THREE. Our Thunderbolt only has two. Our Stalker has 4, but apparently we need Stalkers, which are 10 more tons than your Timber, to evenly match if not lose to your Timbers. The hell are you complaining for guys? Just sit back and get some paychecks and instantly pay to win. You should be able to win 100% of your matches now. And PGI is gonna release you a free Metatinator after you buy a TBR-A. Enjoy.

Total load of crap.

Edited by CantHandletheTruth, 20 April 2015 - 09:25 PM.

[FupDup]

luxebo, on 20 April 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

How can it be rightfully called the Metatinator when it's not even a sword-and-board or asymmetrical build?

[CantHandletheTruth]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Lol. So far posted a lot more actual SENSIBLE arguments than you. The fact your posts show you reside in the underhive is just a byproduct of that.

If utterly unfounded.

Again, no one has bothered to tell me exactly what build is going to be so unbalancing that accelleration, decelleration AND laser burn time had to suffer.

Other than sword and board with pretty much the EXACT same laser vomit that we have on in game right now.

What?

By the way, saw you in a pug match yesterday, your team lost 2-12 and you managed a whopping 250 damage in whatever it was you were in. I was playing an un-elited Zeus and had three or four kills.

Underhive what?

I can (and have) wrecked you with most of my mechs, and there are a LOT more IS in the stable.

Edited by CantHandletheTruth, 20 April 2015 - 09:32 PM.

[luxebo]

CantHandletheTruth, on 20 April 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

We already have Stalkers, and Thunderbolts, and Wolverines, and (arguably) Banshees and Grashoppers.

Again, the standard 2 LPL 4 ermlas TImber can barely cool itself, what are you going to do with three extra hardpoints OTHER than sword and board.

.....No one has answered that.

Quad ER LL is a sweet option.

2 LPL in the CT and other side torso plus the 3 ER ML in the high points isn't bad.

Maybe triple LPL possible.

Some might use it as a shield arm poptart 2x ER PPC up there plus Gauss in the other side torso.

Some might use it with SRM boating on the other side torso, along with LPL or ER LL? Questionable on this build.

Overall, heavily buffs the normal laser vomit, plus heavily buffs gauss vomit and ER LL vomit. Nigh nothing in terms of drawbacks.

FupDup, on 20 April 2015 - 09:28 PM, said:

How can it be rightfully called the Metatinator when it's not even a sword-and-board or asymmetrical build?

We gotta give it a permanent shield to ensure it's properly invincible, no need for JJ broken animations too.

Oh yeah and hitboxes are tinier than Firestarters, along with being more bugged than Firestarter (sort of now), Centurion (the old huge arm ones), and Spider (past) combined.

Edited by luxebo, 20 April 2015 - 09:31 PM.

[Navid A1]

Fate 6, on 20 April 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

Yes, it is ridiculously good at shooting things, that's the point we're making.

No they don't, they are much harder to kill because of agility/armor/hitboxes.

Yes, they are more punishing to play against regardless of if you are lazy or not. That's a sign of being a better mech.

The difference between the Stalker and the Warhawk is that the Warhawk has low mounts and bad hitboxes. That difference is the difference between Tier 1 and rarely seen. Regardless of how big of an advantage you claim it to be (it is huge btw), it's still an advantage like you say.

Timber cockpit in relation to the shoulder mount is about even with Stalker cockpit and arm mounts, meaning it is relatively high.

Barely any, and they will have hardly any effect (reverse speed doesn't affect poking at all because you never reach max reverse speed while poking).

If people could put Clan tech on IS mechs right now they would because it is better, period. The current meta of alpha strike poking with lasers is because of Clan mechs not because of Inner Sphere mechs.

A lot of elite pilots also want to pilot the best mech, and right now the Timber Wolf is literally the best mech.

The pilot shoots things.. not the mech.

Timbers fall like every other mech... big side torsos and exposed CT from every angle (now even better that the jump animation exploit is fixed)... you wanna see a tough nut?... stalker says hello.

I never said it is not a better mech... i said it is not the doomsday machine that everyone is crying about. if it was about good and better then, firestarter, stalkers or hugins, might have a few words for you. Better mechs are all over the place.

no comment on warhawk vs stalker (stalker is the winner here)

even if we consider the cockpit to shoulder height of the timber to be the same as the stalker (which is not btw)... You still are exposing way more torso in the timber because if its wide torsos.

Negative agility quirks can help, i agree.

Is that so?... I would love to have IS autocanons and IS srms on my clan mechs...even with no quirks... then we could see who's gonna be laughing.

Missed my point. Timbers came into attention because it was both iconic and capable... so it became the goto mech in every good unit. It is not like that the Timbers are ridiculously OP... good clanners pilot one because the other clan mechs are ridiculously bad.
And every time PGI wants to give them some quirks, the clammers OP squad will make those quirks to 1% laser cooldown + 2% MG range (things that will have mathematically zero effect... yes absolute zero... not an estimation... server ticks at 1/20s and does not see changes below that resolution)

[luxebo]

CantHandletheTruth, on 20 April 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

If utterly unfounded.
Again, no one has bothered to tell me exactly what build is going to be so unbalancing that accelleration, decelleration AND laser burn time had to suffer.
Other than sword and board with pretty much the EXACT same laser vomit that we have on in game right now.
What?

The problem with the high should points are that it just absolutely buffs the crap out of the original meta builds, making it so much more advantageous in every way possible.
4 ER LL is going to outright outtrade even the 4N's.
Acceleration and deceleration and duration barely affect the chassis. No one here is forcing you to have your beautiful hill humping Jager hardpoints with nigh to none in terms of drawbacks. Go run it once and tell me if it actually is any worse than it is at this moment.

@Navid.
Firstly, IS SRMs are worse than Clan SRMs....
Secondly:
Here is an analysis of the Timber:

Pros:
+Faster than most heavies and really works well in NASCAR.
+JJs to shield asymmetrically or just with arms.
+Hitboxes are good, not perfect, but good. Can shield every part if you know how to.
+Enough tonnage to out dps and trade than most assaults except the King Crab... which there is the Dire Wolf there for a reason.
+Can have high shoulder points with 3 E in em. This is nullifying the Timber's only weakness, which is it reveals too much of itself to the enemy.
+Can still slightly bug out JJs. Not too much, but you can still dodge a few shots.
+And it's Clan XL and Clan lazors are outright better than some of IS side.

Cons:
-Has tiny negligible negative quirks against with 3 E shoulder.
-Might have to be stuck with more than one JJ.

Edited by luxebo, 20 April 2015 - 09:41 PM.

[SaltBeef]

Keep it!