80 replies to this topic

[Caustic Canid]

kamiko kross, on 26 April 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

I would never spam "git gud" at you, but I would urge you to stop being so hellbent on being an isolated solo in a multiplayer, team based environment, Then raging because it isn't 100% dedicated to you. Reach out to others, lose the solo entitlement and enjoy the game more.
When is enough...well enough?

Thanks for being civil.
Also, nice editing. I like that.


In response:

The forums should not be the only place for social interaction. If MWO is going to claim to be an mmo, there should be better systems in place for getting players to work/play /communicate/strategize.

What was promised and what has been delivered are very different from one another. As it stands CW is just an arena style deathmatch with lame objectives.

Mechwarrior and by extension, battletech, are a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Some of us are hardcore into it, and love the team aspect. Some just played the single player and want to have a current generation Mechwarrior game. There are also plenty of players in between.

The solo queue allowed players to play how they wanted regardless of the current meta or dominant strategy. It's why its so popular. I hear a lot of the CW crowd sneering at the solo queue crowd, calling it dumbed down or easy mode. The reality is that they are just enjoying the game the way they want to. And since they make up the majority, it's fair that they would want more content they can use.

I'm fine with there being a hardcore only mode. The problem as I see it, is that development on the solo side has all but stopped since CW was introduced. Meaning the majority of players are stuck with 3 game modes and a handful of maps, while the hardcore minority are getting all of the new content. At this point almost half of the games modes/maps are dedicated to somewhere around 1/8th of the payers. When the solos want to play with the shiny new content, they get their teeth kicked in by the hardcore players.

Solo players want to use the new content in the same capacity they play in the solo queue, and hardcore players don't want CW "dumbed down" with systems designed to give solos a better chance.

At this point the only real option is to allow solo players to use the new maps/game modes, in a solo setting. Disconnected from the star map, and away from the hardcore players.

[RjBass3]

Red5angel, on 25 April 2015 - 02:57 AM, said:

Dear PGI, I don't believe the numbers you're projecting for CW are real, stop lying to your community. [redacted] More focus on pug drops and content not related to CW please. [redacted] Tukkayid is a joke.

Wow really? If you don't like CW then don't play it. It's not like you don't have other game mode options in MWO. Some of us have enjoyed CW since it's launch. I prefer CW over the standard mean nothing public drops that I have been in for the past 3 years.

Oh and please remember, if you don't like it, it doesn't mean we all share your opinion. So please don't try to speak for us all.

[Mystere]

Caustic Canid, on 25 April 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

Actually it's more like asking a tech company to not blow their whole budget on a project that is testing poorly, and is unlikely to sell very well in the long run.

Microsoft seems to have done just fine.

[Oldbob10025]

Caustic Canid, on 26 April 2015 - 03:25 AM, said:

12v12 with a half-assed star map is not an MMO.
The only social interaction this game provides is getting told to "git gud" on the forums.



Just because you had preconceived notions of how MWO was supposed to work doesn't mean everyone else has to buy into them.
It seems reasonable that players might want to have fun playing a game they invested money in.



"Getting involved" means playing the game.
There could be more events.
There could also be more game modes that aren't off limits to pugs.



No, they should make a game that's fun to play.
Which CW is not.



Fans of Mechwarrior want to play Mechwarrior. Not titanfall.

Crazy, I know.

Learn from virtual world a long time ago in the 90's for fluff or things to add to a game to make the game more of your in the game instead of just playing "some game with lasers".. Yes Virtual world did go under but that was because of poor management and PC's were getting better so you can play at home, but they had the fluff down for being immersed into the game

[Caustic Canid]

Mystere, on 26 April 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

Microsoft seems to have done just fine.

Well played.

[Mystere]

SuomiWarder, on 25 April 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

CW as implemented is poorly designed. From the concept of how to score it with the planet capture windows to the map designs that all force fighting through narrow openings. They would have been better off just using the public match play and say the next week is the planet of X in question. Every two hours wins are compared and points toward victory awarded.

I'm glad CW is not like that. That would be even more terrible.

Edited by Mystere, 26 April 2015 - 03:08 PM.

[Raistlic]

Ok, I'm not sure if I get this correctly. So, just to make it perfectly clear: What's the problem this time?

[Jon Gotham]

Caustic Canid, on 26 April 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

Thanks for being civil.
Also, nice editing. I like that.


In response:

The forums should not be the only place for social interaction. If MWO is going to claim to be an mmo, there should be better systems in place for getting players to work/play /communicate/strategize.

What was promised and what has been delivered are very different from one another. As it stands CW is just an arena style deathmatch with lame objectives.

Mechwarrior and by extension, battletech, are a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Some of us are hardcore into it, and love the team aspect. Some just played the single player and want to have a current generation Mechwarrior game. There are also plenty of players in between.

The solo queue allowed players to play how they wanted regardless of the current meta or dominant strategy. It's why its so popular. I hear a lot of the CW crowd sneering at the solo queue crowd, calling it dumbed down or easy mode. The reality is that they are just enjoying the game the way they want to. And since they make up the majority, it's fair that they would want more content they can use.

I'm fine with there being a hardcore only mode. The problem as I see it, is that development on the solo side has all but stopped since CW was introduced. Meaning the majority of players are stuck with 3 game modes and a handful of maps, while the hardcore minority are getting all of the new content. At this point almost half of the games modes/maps are dedicated to somewhere around 1/8th of the payers. When the solos want to play with the shiny new content, they get their teeth kicked in by the hardcore players.

Solo players want to use the new content in the same capacity they play in the solo queue, and hardcore players don't want CW "dumbed down" with systems designed to give solos a better chance.

At this point the only real option is to allow solo players to use the new maps/game modes, in a solo setting. Disconnected from the star map, and away from the hardcore players.

In reponse:
I agree about social interaction to a large extent but as the game currently stands:
It is the player that limits themselves.
As for anything out side of solo queue, again it is the player that limits themselves.
As for havng anything MORe than pure solo drop and shoot, again it is the player that limits themselves.

Yet what do we have? Daily whine threads whining about premades and people that choose to not limit themselves. People make their own choices then complain about those choices, then even worse-have the cheek to blame others for doing what they won't do. Any kowtow from PGI will affect the quality of life for groupers, as it already has. Myself and my buddies are getting mighty sick of catching verbal abuse from solo players in CW as well. Our crime? Speaking to other people and making friends to pay the game with.
Doesn't sound fair does it really?

[Lunatic_Asylum]

I have been playing solo. I feel nothing even remotely close to "the worst idea ever". I can read a book while I am waiting or play the guitar.

[Caustic Canid]

kamiko kross, on 26 April 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

In reponse:
I agree about social interaction to a large extent but as the game currently stands:
It is the player that limits themselves.
As for anything out side of solo queue, again it is the player that limits themselves.
As for havng anything MORe than pure solo drop and shoot, again it is the player that limits themselves.

Yet what do we have? Daily whine threads whining about premades and people that choose to not limit themselves. People make their own choices then complain about those choices, then even worse-have the cheek to blame others for doing what they won't do. Any kowtow from PGI will affect the quality of life for groupers, as it already has. Myself and my buddies are getting mighty sick of catching verbal abuse from solo players in CW as well. Our crime? Speaking to other people and making friends to pay the game with.
Doesn't sound fair does it really?

What kowtow, aside from the solo queue, has PGI given to casual players?

Also, if we're talking about "fair" the people in the standard queues outnumber CW players 6:1, so it's not really fair that most of the development budget is being spent on a game mode that so few people even play.

[Triordinant]

Caustic Canid, on 26 April 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

Also, if we're talking about "fair" the people in the standard queues outnumber CW players 6:1, so it's not really fair that most of the development budget is being spent on a game mode that so few people even play.

Here's a fanciful conspiracy theory I thought of in 2 minutes: PGI wants to make the public queues so boring and repetitive that some soloists actually get bored and decide to try out CW. Out of the few who try CW, maybe 5% decide to join a group and stay in CW. Maybe it's the only way they can maintain the CW population.

[Gagis]

Since when has soloing been viable in the public queues? I am under the impression you are put into a 12-man team and expected to fight an opposing team.

Haven't seen any 1 vs. X drops ever.

Lone wolves are playing both CW wrong and public queue wrong. It is a team game and has always been a team game, so fight like a team, even if you just met your new randomly chosen friends.

[Oldbob10025]

Gagis, on 27 April 2015 - 02:37 AM, said:

Lone wolves are playing both CW wrong and public queue wrong. It is a team game and has always been a team game, so fight like a team, even if you just met your new randomly chosen friends.

Where does it say "CW IS FOR 12 MAN PREMADE PLAYES ONLY!!!" if it was then they would have no pugs player WHAT SO EVER...or just random players.. I understand its a team game and should work as at team but many MMO players think its should only be 12 man premades of their unit and no randoms...

Triskin
{18nS}

[Fire for Effect]

funny... people who wish to play football join an amateur football club because any team will simply devestatingly defeat a random number of 11 solo football players.

Here the football players are whining that they are beaten by teams in a team-based game...
Go join a unit there are enough, use the LFG. Its also just more fun to be able to play together instead of sitting alone in front of a PC.

[Phex]

It is Fackt, MWO is a team game!
I wonder why they form Teams in the army, that train years together.
Will probably have a reason ....
All unsatisfied solo players:
Seek out a team, drop together, have fun together.
And forget the me! me! me! The team is important, not you!

Greetings Phex

Edited by Phex, 27 April 2015 - 04:13 AM.

[Reptilizer]

Phex, on 27 April 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

It is Fackt, MWO is a team game!
I wonder why they form Teams in the army, that train years together.
Will probably have a reason ....
All unsatisfied solo players:
Seek out a team, drop together, have fun together.
And forget the me! me! me! The team is important, not you!

Greetings Phex

Wrong on so many levels...
So focusing on restrictions coming with groups.
Being part of a team also means taking on some responsibilities, three major ones being:

• You have to be there, when the rest/majority of you team has time to play. One match an evening does not justify the efforts of getting into and maintaining a place in a team.
  
• You can/should not drop out of your group doing runs (leaving 11 people idle&searching for replacement).
  
• You should/must adjust your mech setup to match with the rest of the team. Meaning, you often do not play what you want, but what is needed.

So, NO getting everybody in teams is NOT the solution for everybody.
The ones with jobs, a family and not much spare time on their hands actually fund(ed) this game. They are the ones paying for all the F2P kiddos with tons of time to engage in clans and play 50 hours in a week.
They drop one or two matches every other day IF they do not fall asleep, face on the keyboard.
They are the ones who really get screwed by events like this.

Yeah, team is important, in every match.
But i have yet to see a F2P game that tries so damn hard to screw over their paying customers time and time again.
There has to be fun and incentive for the casual solos, ESPECIALLY when desingning events where everyone can participate.
This event instead gives solo PUGers the "waiting game" and the "roflstomp by premade clanners game".
Both lack fun and let people turn salty. Myself being a prime example for this.

[Phex]

I can only speak from my point of view:
I work 14 hours a day, I have 1-2 days off a week.
I have a wife. I have family. I have (real) friends.

I play in a unit in which all have a real life.
And we always manage to drop with several. Although rare as 12-man.
It all depends on what team you're playing and how the alignment is.

• You have to be there, when the rest/majority of you team has time to play. One match an evening does not justify the efforts of getting into and maintaining a place in a team.
  
• You can/should not drop out of your group doing runs (leaving 11 people idle&searching for replacement).
  
• You should/must adjust your mech setup to match with the rest of the team. Meaning, you often do not play what you want, but what is needed.

We do not care who takes what at Mech.
We dont have special training times.
We play for fun. And thats all it is to it.

There has to be fun and incentive for the casual solos, ESPECIALLY when desingning events where everyone can participate.
This event instead gives solo PUGers the "waiting game" and the "roflstomp by premade clanners game".
Both lack fun and let people turn salty. Myself being a prime example for this.

Solution:
LFG, Multible TS-Hubs, in-game VoIP, casual teams!
If people are too lazy to take advantage of the options offered, they should not complain!

[Dawnstealer]

ztac, on 26 April 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

CW was a great Idea , it was for a lot of people what the game was about. It was just badly implemented and long overdue. I guess that as more and more time passed expectations grew higher and higher and here was the start of the problem. It just did not deliver on what people were hoping for!

It's this. And like the OP, the saving grace is that it's in Beta. PGI is just trying to do what every other company that's tackled the Battletech universe post-Clans has tried and failed: balancing the Clans and IS to each other using mechanics rather than role-playing.

The other problem is the "Destroy the Big Gun!"-Assault gamemode is horrible for Clan v IS. An organized Clan team in Timberwolves and Crows can blow up the gate, deathball to the gennies, and then deathball to the gun, completely ignoring the intervening enemy mechs; typically they can do this within two waves, but if it takes three, their mechs are Light enough, they'll have more than enough room to pack in three waves of that.

IS can counter one of those waves, for sure, with their Assaults. Assaults...against...Heavies...is even (I'll let that sink in a second).

But by the second drop and especially by the third, there is no stopping it. If a Clan group wants to single-mindedly kill the gun, there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.

I'll stress that this is with two equally-skilled teams. Obviously an IS prebuilt will stomp the snot out of a semi-organized Clan push. But even then, Timbers are so fast for their firepower, it's nearly impossible to stop. Sulfur, in particular, with its wide-open racing lanes, is a tough draw.

Unfortunately, I think PGI picked the two gamemodes that translate least to CW: Assault and Skirmish (Invasion and Counter-attack, respectively). They should have looked at Skirmish.

Conquer nodes in sequence and hold them. The "in sequence" part is very important.

If you go Alpha > Beta > Gamma and by the time you get to Gamma with your Timbers, IS Lights are grabbing Beta, you have to respond to that and push them out or Gamma won't be "capturable" anymore. You have to both defend and attack. Lights have a purpose.

Sure, you can zerg out and grab the points in sequence with Lights, but if the other team brought Assaults, you're going to get wiped out and lose everything you grabbed.

Mediums will have a place. Heavies will have a place. Assaults will be the ultimate area-denial mechs (as they should be).

Note again that the difference would be take and hold IN SEQUENCE. That's important as it forces you to play defense on the node you just took.

Finally, each node you fully conquer becomes an available dropzone (player can pick which node they drop at).

Edited by Dawnstealer, 27 April 2015 - 05:28 AM.

[HARDKOR]

Caustic Canid, on 25 April 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

Honestly though, it should be pretty clear to everyone at this point that the majority of players want to play as a solo, so your comment sounds more like you're blaming pugs for ruining -your- game by not playing the way -you- want them to.

Screw these people. It's like if you have a rowing club and 80% of the people that show up want to ignore the guy sitting on the end yelling PULL. Just because they outnumber you doesn't mean they are not idiots ruining it for everyone.

[Reptilizer]

Phex, on 27 April 2015 - 05:11 AM, said:

I can only speak from my point of view:
I work 14 hours a day, I have 1-2 days off a week.
I have a wife. I have family. I have (real) friends.

I play in a unit in which all have a real life.
And we always manage to drop with several. Although rare as 12-man.
It all depends on what team you're playing and how the alignment is.

*snip*

We do not care who takes what at Mech.
We dont have special training times.
We play for fun. And thats all it is to it.

*snip*

Solution:
LFG, Multible TS-Hubs, in-game VoIP, casual teams!
If people are too lazy to take advantage of the options offered, they should not complain!

Glad that it all works out for you!
And as you said: It is your POV.

My experience tells me, that a lot of groups i meet in CW are metawhoring 12 mans, that will (probably) eat your casual team for breakfast.
Even worse for "casual teams" who just met each other, aka PUGs meeting on LFG.
Losing is not so much fun as winning and gives less rewards. And. especially in this event, you will lose a lot on IS "casual teams".

My main point is: Performing better as a group needs time. Which is, probably, also in your hard-working family-centered life, a scarce resource.

I want more fun or more rewards for the casuals, instead of a very frustrating experience in a community event that is supposedly designed to give everybody an opprtunity to see how great CW is.
We do not suffer from a too broad playerbase. Quite the opposite actually.
Frustrated newcomers and salty casuals will kill the game eventually by closing their wallets. PGI will not be able to pay their servers from the relatively few well organized and game dominating groups. Let them have their competitive stuff, without killing the game for the solos. MWO dying would be a shame.