117 replies to this topic

[Project_Mercy]

CW Grayson, on 02 July 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Now i would like to hear where you got that info, as it is the only way to make clanmechs/tech work.

One, you can see it in the leaked beta footage.
Two, they've said in multiple cases that there's no limit or control on what mechs you drop.

What they've mentioned is, there's a chance later on that match-making may possible be based on BV or tonnage.

See: http://mwomercs.com/...devs-2-answers/

Quote

Lastly, there will be a team balancing mechanic in place when it comes to finding matches. We are still working out the final details on how we want this to work whether it goes with BV or based on tonnage or a combination therein.

But they've also said since then it's more likely based on pilot skill. I can't find the references to that, don't have the time. But, the match-making seems to change daily. In either case, eventually the matching logic is going to put people together. So if you and your 11 buddies are rolling tricked out clan mechs, you're going to end up in a match with another 12 people. Irrelevant of BV.

[Rayspace]

PANZERBUNNY, on 02 July 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

A Commando can still headshot your supreme lostech mech design.

I fear not new tech.
I fear not power creep.
I only fear the end of bacon.

Long live the bacon!

[HANGMAN1962]

ok my 2 cents worth: clan battle bidding is most likely to put them in smaller mechs to offset the tech advantage.
{plays into the clanner veiw of do more w/less mentality}
i expect to see 12v12 battles w/lites,meds,and the occasional madcat,
as apposed to IS lite,meds,heavys,and the occasional assualts.
this would in my eyes balence out the difference in starleague tech/losttech vs clan tech based weaponry.
but like i said "just my 2 cents worth" hehehe

sincerly the "hangman"

[TheBossHammer]

bandita, on 02 July 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

well as long as they handle it so the early models are like the lower teir tanks in wot shouldnt be a problem imo in the books the lostech stuff was in some ways better than the clan gear.I also wonder how they are gonna handle scavenging gear off fallen mechs makes it worth taking your spazzy mech against a clanner if you get a chance to equipt the upgraded weapons.Another thing that would be quite cool is to see mobbing games where you have 4 clanner mechs against 2/3 times the amount off nonlostech mechs (also work for heavys against lights).
but the clans hitting the inner spere is gonna be cool to see (timberwolf ftw) maybe have the players start attacking other houses then get transfered to the clan border to fight them and get the better mechs

Love this idea, but it would be 5 Clan mechs...Clanners operate in stars, not lances. Personally, I would love to see the Clans intentionally balanced at a 5/8 ratio or so, so that 2 lances can take on a star and have things be almost completely even. I wouldn't mind playing against the Clans in IS mechs at all if we outnumbered them, and as Lostech becomes more available, that ratio can be reduced to 2 stars against 3 lances to maintain balance. If competitiveness is an issue, let actual competition matches or really any match that matters be symetrical Clan vs Clan or IS vs IS, with Clan vs IS being unranked, story driven and more of a novelty. And as for the whole galaxy end of the game, well, isn't the entire point that the IS beat the Clans by mobbing the heck out of them until Comstar joined in? Anyway, that would give power creep a purpose too...just make the IS slowly catch up to the Clans by upgrading IS mechs and phasing out old IS weaponry as newer, better tech becomes available. It'll keep the endgame from being dull as well.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

there really is no such animal as 'power creep' in MWO, other than the realistic idea of equipment becoming inferrior as better stuff comes out, we know it's going to happen, Clan Tech, Lostech, additional new tech that the innersphere and clans create. xpulse, heavy lasers, ect.

is any of this stuff clearly better than what we have now, generally...no. clan ER lasers have high heat... granted clan mechs have double heatsinks, but even then, a hot mech is a hot mech... Ferro armor, hardened armor, all have their limitations and drawbacks.

[Endless Ike]

i don't really see how that's possible since they're not really creating anything new, just pulling it online into their game. The only way I could really see this being problematic is if the game is a massive success like WoW, and is still running strong in 10 or 12 years to the extent that they've exhausted the pre-existing canon and have to write more.

I think that's a problem most of us would be more than willing ot have.

[Atavism]

Jade Kitsune, on 03 July 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

there really is no such animal as 'power creep' in MWO

Yes there is. It's built right into the canon. Intentional power creep is still power creep. But the fact that it is known well in advance means that the developers can compensate for it, and it's worth waiting to see how they plan to do that before assuming they are going to screw it up.

[WarGanisM]

Problem is theres never really any need for power creep in the first place, it generally starts to happen when its becomes more of a business driven decision than a gamer enjoyment decision. That or a Dev team has become stuck for Ideas, good Ideas being in the form of uncomparables.

[WarGanisM]

Also slightly off topic but since the OP mentioned Power creep, and PA who do alot of behind the Industry presenations, heres a interesting presentation about "Games as a Service" by Raph Koster, if any one cares to watch.

Edited by WarGanisM, 03 July 2012 - 05:58 PM.

[Fastred]

Terror Teddy, on 02 July 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

I dont care how superior some yahoo will feel in a clan mech - they can still take critical damage, I can still kneecap them and they can still die.

I might sit in an old machine, but it is mine, I've fought in it for decades, i know it as well as my own heart. New technology can only do so much - in the end it will be the pilots that decide the outcome.

Besides - Who will feel better about their victory, the one in his 20 year old design or the guy in his shiny new toy? And my salvage will be worth more on the market than they would get from me.

Well said

[ramboscoob]

This really isn't a problem, yes it is better tech but it comes at a cost. Also there is technology that is only available to IS as well like the C3 system, yes this requires a team but it make IS better at the pick off opponents. Take a look at the classic Swayback Hunchback variant, it has 8 medium lasers with enough heat sinks to handle them all. It is a 3025 mech that is good in any era because of the combination of lots of armor and amazing damage out put. Now compare that to the Hunchback IIC it has 2 Ultra AC 20s. Yes this is stronger than that version or any other version of the early hunchbacks but it comes at a major cost the IIC has much less armor than the original hunchback it also has very limited ammo. A good IS pilot will win using true IS tactics, IS would go for that back shot just because they could, and the other thing is they were know to take advantage of terrain. The same tactics work when you are out toned. A 20 ton mech can still take out a 100 ton by using the advantage it is given, and that is its speed. This entire game is going to work off the pilot how well can you use what you are use to working with. Part of the game is dealing with being out gunned or outnumbered. This is also where customizing your mech comes into play, if you know your mech has a problem with something make an adjustment to fix this. Just because something is oh shiny doesn't make it the best thing ever skill is something that can't be bought and will be the leveler in this game. You put a person in a clan mech of your choice and put them against a true veteran player who has played not only the tabletop but in game here longer than the other player by a sizable amount of time, I will still put my money that the more experience IS player will win. And as far as that argument goes for a basic Catapult vs. a Madcat earlier as a proud Catapult pilot I would take that challenge, the catapult is a mech that you really have to pay attention to how you run it to run it well it isn't about using your better weapons to take the opponent out is about using its superior range and the terrain to your advantage.

[Sean Casey]

IMO the way to handle it is to restrict matches on BV or if that cannot tbe done make it so the clan mechs are more expensive to repair or the c-bills you earn after each match is reduced 50% for clans. Either approach would work. The equal BV would be a way to approximate the whole clan "bidding" system from lore and keep things balanced. The reduced c-bill would reflect the difference in culture between IS and Clans and make playing as IS an even more rewarding experiencce than playing as a clanner. Those of us really into the lore will probably pick a side and stay on it the whole time, but others may need a reason to not play as a clanner.

[CrackersPhinn]

Let's face it power creep will happen sooner or later, just hope for it to be later and a small one at that.

Small power creeps can be handled, sometimes it makes the community better players because of it. Learning new techniques to counter it shifting meta gameplay and the like.

[Drenar]

I don't like the idea that power creep is inevitable. In the PATV video linked (by the OP? I forget) they mention League of Legends, where power creep is non-existent. I see no reason why that can't happen here as well. Yes, Clan Tech is more powerful than IS tech at the time of the invasion, but the IS is a lot more flexible when it comes to tactics, since they aren't restricted by the rules of Zellbrigen. There has been talk of rewarding players who play Clan for playing true to the rules of Zellbrigen, and even if that doesn't make it into the game, I for one will always do my best to abide by the rules of engagement demanded by my honor (I'm a Jade Falcon, for those who are wondering.)

It also has been stated in a couple of places that salvage will not be in the game, for balancing reasons.

Frankly, I think power creep will be a non-issue, and it seems like a lot of people are letting anxiety get the better of them. It's easy to do, believe me, I know. But everything I've seen/heard of this game so far has me extremely optimistic about it.

Also, I'm really jonesing for a Mech fix since it's been about two years since I've been in a Virtual World pod.

[Supremacist]

Wow, all this gnashing of teeth and "deep" thought devoted to how the clans will be incorporated.
This game is like WOT, so how does WOT incorporate non-US non-russia equipment/faction?
Oh, its its own tier that you can level up from the beginning.
Was that so hard? Hurrrr

[Farmer]

Supremacist, on 03 July 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Wow, all this gnashing of teeth and "deep" thought devoted to how the clans will be incorporated.
This game is like WOT, so how does WOT incorporate non-US non-russia equipment/faction?
Oh, its its own tier that you can level up from the beginning.
Was that so hard? Hurrrr

Uhh...This game isn't like WoT, though.

[Argent Tnega]

ManDaisy, on 02 July 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

**** wot. Level 1 mechs should perform like level 1 mechs. The thing with battletech/mechwarrior is level 1 mechs (zombies) can often still kick *** even against advanced tech. One thing no one who hasn't played battletech realizes is that advance tech just lets you have more firepower but never more armor. An Atlas with level 2 tech take the same damage, and only has just as much armor as a level 1 tech Atlas. Its the same way with Clans as well... an 100 Dire Wolf carries the same amount of armor as an 100 ton atlas.

Clanners get more armor per ton. I.E. Ferro-Fibrous armor is better. Yes you max out the same however they use less tonnage to get there, less tonnage for armor = more tonnage for weapons, engine, etc = Dead Inner Sphere mechs.

That being said, the developers will get to play the clan mechs for the invasion. If a player wants to salvage clan tech you wil have to win it in battle against them.

[Thorn Hallis]

William Petersen, on 02 July 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

We already have some LosTech. =) LB-20s, SSRM-6s, are examples of LosTech that is still Lost.

Both weapons aren't LosTech, as both were originally designed by the Clans. The IS developed their versions from the original LBX10 and SSRM2 of the Star League and some captured Clantech.

[nektu]

shadowvfx, on 02 July 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Anyone who's ever played any MMO has experienced Power Creep. Essentially, old dungeons, equipment, items suck compared to the newest stuff implemented into the game. This game is ripe to suffer from this, especially with the ever increasing technology that is going to be regularly introduced into it as time elapses.

The guys over at Extra Credits just covered this issue and made a LOT of great observations and might offer everyone in the MWO community (devs and players) better ways to handle this topic.

http://penny-arcade....ode/power-creep

The will not "deal with it" they will embrace it. After all they only make money if they get the playerbase to grind for the latest shiny - and the one after that one.

[CCC Dober]

You're mistaking this game with another one. There is no need to grind as such. All classes are unlocked from the beginning and you don't have to grind to 'unlock' a new Mech. Just go and buy it either with earned c-bills or cash. You can unlock certain variants, but this won't stop you from customizing the base variant you start out with. Also you don't need to grind weapons as such, same deal as with Mechs.