101 replies to this topic

[Gattsus]

Like someone said ages ago, the progression should be for differentiation not for upgrades.

[Insects]

Most players Master their mechs and then start at the bottom with something new anyway.
All those 50 to 100+ mechs in peoples collections didnt magically Master themselves you know.
Leveling is why people play, otherwise what is the point? Once something is Mastered it gets a bit boring.

Agree trial mechs are junk, they need a new (T) class for trial mechs which have proper beginner friendly loadouts which work.

Also fix Elo so that new accounts start at the lowest score instead of midrange where they supposedly start now.

Most players Master their mechs and then start at the bottom with something new anyway.
All those 50 to 100+ mechs in peoples collections didnt magically Master themselves you know.
Leveling is why people play, otherwise what is the point? Once something is Mastered it gets a bit boring.

Agree trial mechs are junk, they need a new (T) class for trial mechs which have proper beginner friendly loadouts which work.

Also fix Elo so that new accounts start at the lowest score instead of midrange where they supposedly start now.

[Eider]

Because.. FILTHY CASUALS!! joke, but explains low pop in cw.

[Elizander]

New players are given low ELO but MM puts them in with high ELO anyway because it prioritizes even matches over the experience of a new player.

Even if we set new player Elo to 500 or something really low MM will still throw them to the hungry wolves. Instead of 2800 ELO + 1300x11 you'll just have 2800 ELO +500x11.

Skill Brackets will be better. Newbie Bracket, Rookie Bracket and Veteran Bracket to break down the ranges of ELO and instead of trying to go for an even ELO score the MM could prioritize players within the same skill bracket. The difference is that Low+Mid can be mixed but MM should totally avoid Low+High. It can do Mid+High or Mid+Low so that the relative skill range is close.

Another thing is that ELO should have a modifier based on what mech you have. ELO should be considered 100% for an elite/master mech with modules and anything less should have a negative modifier so that veteran players aren't screwed over whenever they want to level a new chassis or variant. Things like lack of DHS, efficiency ranks and modules should have modifiers that lower your ELO.

[Pjwned]

bar10jim, on 26 April 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

Just be glad it's not as bad as it used to be. We used to only have 4 trial mechs (1 for each weight class) - and they were stock. Now you've got 16 Champion mechs. Does not compare.

That doesn't really change much of anything because you kind of need a mech to pilot in order to be able to do anything, and having only 4 stock mechs as trials was absolutely, inexcusably pathetic to even the biggest loyalist apologist players. The other thing is that most of the trial mechs (and by extension, Champion mechs with their standard build) are pretty bad, and you can't even unlock basic mech efficiencies while piloting a trial mech either, so have fun not performing like absolute trash in those trial mechs because it's going to be pretty much impossible when you can't change their crappy builds either.

joelmuzz, on 26 April 2015 - 12:55 AM, said:

Most players Master their mechs and then start at the bottom with something new anyway.
All those 50 to 100+ mechs in peoples collections didnt magically Master themselves you know.
Leveling is why people play, otherwise what is the point? Once something is Mastered it gets a bit boring.

Slogging through a crappy grindfest is 100x more boring, I would play a lot more and probably buy a lot more mechs (plus mech bays) if the grinding involved with setting up new mechs wasn't so anti-fun and tedious.

I wish I understood why people think that adding in artificial grind makes anything fun, or why those people are not playing Nexon games instead.

Edited by Pjwned, 26 April 2015 - 03:12 AM.

[Beastbear]

Pjwned, on 26 April 2015 - 03:04 AM, said:

That doesn't really change much of anything because you kind of need a mech to pilot in order to be able to do anything, and having only 4 stock mechs as trials was absolutely, inexcusably pathetic to even the biggest loyalist apologist players. The other thing is that most of the trial mechs (and by extension, Champion mechs with their standard build) are pretty bad, and you can't even unlock basic mech efficiencies while piloting a trial mech either, so have fun not performing like absolute trash in those trial mechs because it's going to be pretty much impossible when you can't change their crappy builds either.



Slogging through a crappy grindfest is 100x more boring, I would play a lot more and probably buy a lot more mechs (plus mech bays) if the grinding involved with setting up new mechs wasn't so anti-fun and tedious.

I wish I understood why people think that adding in artificial grind makes anything fun, or why those people are not playing Nexon games instead.

Because a lot of the designer mindset still hasn't caught up with multi player dynamics, and those where it works well do an awful lot of work to segregate "matchmaking". Most "aaa" single player games almost always have progression (Extra skills and or powercreep in some form) in a lot of cases that doesn't translate to multiplayer. For instance mmorpg's do it by zoning the attractions brackets away from one another, shooters do it by keeping the powercreep to a minimum and/or providing easy access power early on (see noob tubes and grenades)

The failure of elo and how the matchmaker uses it on many levels (for whatever reason) is the biggest thing killing the mwo experience. By rights if it was working correctly apex builds should be in elo hell facing nothing but drop after drop of their own kind with the very odd outlier pilot who was exceptional in that particular build. Underhive dwellers and newbie's should be only facing each other till they advance where it makes more sense for them to start, and there should be a various mix in the middle. CW will hit the odd stomp 12 man running apex mechs but otherwise there should be more variety. That was the plan when they explained the mechanics of it............. now if only we'd get the player base 24/7 and tighten up the parameters to make it act accordingly

Edited by Beastbear, 26 April 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Lily from animove, on 25 April 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

Because it keeps people playing a game if they have something to work and improve.

Work?

Improve?

Miss the post where new player want a fully mastered mech and enough cbills to re-equip?

Like wanting a capped char in, for example WoW, because your new and at a disadvantage vs the other that have been playing forever.

[Phashe]

IMHO, PGI's two true failings are: (1) the horrible new player experience, and (2) doing nothing about it for 2 years. ALMOST like they do not care if they get new players.... which scares me...

Edited by Phashe, 26 April 2015 - 04:31 AM.

[Beastbear]

TWIAFU, on 26 April 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

Work?

Improve?

Miss the post where new player want a fully mastered mech and enough cbills to re-equip?

Like wanting a capped char in, for example WoW, because your new and at a disadvantage vs the other that have been playing forever.

short of the cbills necessary for gearing, eliteing 1 mech @ standard xp rates should be enough to at least purchase the basic chassis of your next up to a heavy, no matter if you're clan or is. There will be enough chassis flying around come wave 3 that "leveling" in the traditional sense of mechwarrior (advancing light-> med->heavy->assualt) that just leads to grief and stompage here can get forgotten while an idea like remodeling modules as an xp grind (replacing the cbill sink) on individual chassis could take over as progression.

Edited by Beastbear, 26 April 2015 - 04:25 AM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Wouldn't it be nifty if all new players could pick any c-bill variant of any mech to start out with? Along with a handy guide on each mech's capabilities, strengths, playstyle, etc.

I'd like that.

[Beastbear]

Sandersson Jankins, on 26 April 2015 - 04:28 AM, said:

Wouldn't it be nifty if all new players could pick any c-bill variant of any mech to start out with? Along with a handy guide on each mech's capabilities, strengths, playstyle, etc.

I'd like that.

barring clan assaults after the 25 cadet games they pretty much can. Knowing what you're doing during those 25 games and saving the cbills till after those 25 games without rage-quitting is the secret

Edited by Beastbear, 26 April 2015 - 04:34 AM.

[XXXBunnyXXX]

sneeking, on 25 April 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Mechs grow stronger with time as do pilots

or the "pilots" just leave the game to rot

[Molossian Dog]

Xoco, on 25 April 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

...My question then, is why does the game penalize me when I'm starting out? When you buy a new mech, you're playing in a gimp bot. Why?...

Because you are supposed to throw money at PGI to have a fighting chance.

That is also the reason the grind is unbearable.

"Whale! There she blows!"

[990Dreams]

I've been playing longer. Naturally I'm going to be better and have more stuff. That's the way things in general work.

[Pjwned]

TWIAFU, on 26 April 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

Work?

Improve?

Miss the post where new player want a fully mastered mech and enough cbills to re-equip?

Like wanting a capped char in, for example WoW, because your new and at a disadvantage vs the other that have been playing forever.

Wanting a capped character in WoW is not comparable to wanting a capped mech in MWO for about a dozen different reasons.

DavidHurricane, on 26 April 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

I've been playing longer. Naturally I'm going to be better and have more stuff. That's the way things in general work.

That's fine, but do you need a competitive advantage in the form of mech tree skills too just because you grinded for longer?

No, you don't.

[Malakie]

michaelius, on 25 April 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

Most games have protection systems in place to give positive first impression of game to new players by mostly making them to play against other new people.
MWO doesn't and we have newbies thrown straight into pool full of sharks.

Exactly right.. and it is even worse if they end up in a map where the spawn is camped right away...

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

TWIAFU, on 26 April 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

Work?

Improve?

Miss the post where new player want a fully mastered mech and enough cbills to re-equip?

Like wanting a capped char in, for example WoW, because your new and at a disadvantage vs the other that have been playing forever.

You can pay Bliz $60 for that now

[InspectorG]

Xoco, on 25 April 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

TLDR:
Mechs grow stronger with time, which improves your performance. But why do we have to start out in the worst possible state, especially when you are already lacking in actual experience piloting the mech?
-----------
So I've been playing for a good bit, and I think I'm learning the ropes. I'm now at least doing 200 dmg (still pretty low), but it's improving pretty quick.

The thing is, I'm still just as bad at the game as a few months back mostly. I just happened to now be carrying bigger guns, going faster, as well as being tougher.



See, when I start out the game, I decided to go with the Locust (mainly because of its appearance)--I'm still playing them, and they are still my favorite mechs so far. The thing is, when I started, I was rocking the standard engine, and 2xsmall lasers. I was really struggling to do any damage (my alpha is a whopping 6 dmg!) at point blank range, in an armorless coffin. Needless to say, I usually don't make it past 3 minutes mark each game.

Then I made enough to start kitting out my Locust--new engine here, a few medium lasers there--now I'm going 50% faster than before, and doing 8 times the damage per salvo. Even when I was pretty much doing the same thing I did before, my score improved tremendously (which allows me to buy a few more stuff).

I'm also getting more EXP, which lets me get some mastery going, which makes my mech even stronger.

My question then, is why does the game penalize me when I'm starting out? When you buy a new mech, you're playing in a gimp bot. Why? For the sake of having in-game progress? Shouldn't new players be given a handicap, rather than having the worst possible mech in existence? Why not at least start everyone on equal footing, instead of making sure late-comers will always be at disadvantage?

A. Rock the Locust. If you can withstand the learning curve of the Locust, you will be good in any other mech.

B. Ever play a contact sport? First year of high school wrestling i got my ass kicked. Wrestled kids who started when they were 6 years old.
You just gotta suck it up. MWO is a niche game with a smallish player base. No hand-holding newbs here, though a better tutorial/coaching system would be nice.

[990Dreams]

Pjwned, on 26 April 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

That's fine, but do you need a competitive advantage in the form of mech tree skills too just because you grinded for longer?

The biggest difference the Mech tree makes is speed tweak. The difference is negligible imo for everything else.

[Escef]

DavidHurricane, on 26 April 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

The biggest difference the Mech tree makes is speed tweak. The difference is negligible imo for everything else.

Speed Tweak is the single most transformative skill, yes. But getting double basics by filling out the elite tier of skills for many mechs feels like a huge difference. A lot of marginal builds become fun and effective with double basics.